what happens when you reduce requirements for a female firefighter?

[MongGrel]

It could have been a court ordered. That happened in San Francisco many years back. At the time, they desperately needed some Filipino women to meet their hiring requirements, and none could pas the physical requirements, which included being able to carry a person of x size a set distance (Filipino women tend to be small). So they waved the requirements.

I'm pretty sure it was court ordered, actually.

Still does not make it logical.

 

[Subyman]

Actually it does. Since she failed the minimum requirements to be a firefighter, technically she should have never been there.

And if she was not there to begin with, she would have never injured herself.

That, however, has nothing to do with the argument at hand.

 

[Blue_Max]

That, however, has nothing to do with the argument at hand.

If it's not about whether people should be allowed to skip job requirements just to meet an Affirmative Action quota, then what is it?

Which derailment would you prefer in order to avoid the unpleasant cross-section of issues like affirmative action?


...I'll bet the patriarchy pushed her off the truck.

 

[Subyman]

If it's not about whether people should be allowed to skip job requirements just to meet an Affirmative Action quota, then what is it?

Her being exempted had nothing to do with stepping out of a fire truck unless I missed the part about her not passing the "stepping out of truck" portion of the exam. People twist their ankles or misstep all the time on the job. Her injury has nothing to do with the exam, it is a common work injury.

Here is another random fire fighter that had a minor injury:
http://abc7news.com/news/sf-firefig...-ankle-while-battling-tenderloin-fire/291390/

Which derailment would you prefer in order to avoid the unpleasant cross-section of issues like affirmative action?

...I'll bet the patriarchy pushed her off the truck.

You just derailed yourself.

 

[DrPizza]

Her being exempted had nothing to do with stepping out of a fire truck unless I missed the part about her not passing the "stepping out of truck" portion of the exam. People twist their ankles or misstep all the time on the job. Her injury has nothing to do with the exam, it is a common work injury.

Here is another random fire fighter that had a minor injury:
http://abc7news.com/news/sf-firefig...-ankle-while-battling-tenderloin-fire/291390/





You just derailed yourself.

The minor injury you're referring to was incurred while battling a fire, presumably while carrying 75 pounds or more equipment in a smoky environment. Sure, breaking your foot is a common work injury - particularly among people in occupations that don't require some degree of physical strength and coordination.

 

[werepossum]

Actually it does. Since she failed the minimum requirements to be a firefighter, technically she should have never been there.

And if she was not there to begin with, she would have never injured herself.

And at least theoretically, the qualified firefighter who would have replaced her could have actually been fighting the fire or emergency.

Of course, someone might have one less minority/women box checked. Gotta weigh both sides.

 

[Subyman]

The minor injury you're referring to was incurred while battling a fire, presumably while carrying 75 pounds or more equipment in a smoky environment. Sure, breaking your foot is a common work injury - particularly among people in occupations that don't require some degree of physical strength and coordination.

Or he was just stepping out of the truck, what ever fits our position

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Since she was injured on duty, she is eligible for a disability pension that would pay three-quarters of her annual salary, tax-free, if deemed unfit to return.

This is the part where I cry knowing there is no hope.

Oh, and her salary is ~$79k. More than most people here.

That's nice.....

 

[JEDIYoda]

Since she was injured on duty, she is eligible for a disability pension that would pay three-quarters of her annual salary, tax-free, if deemed unfit to return.

not necessarity..usually there is a probationary period, before the benefits kick in!

 

[MongGrel]

This is the part where I cry knowing there is no hope.

Oh, and her salary is ~$79k. More than most people here.

That's nice.....

I'm personally making $0 bucks a day atm. Well, I can't say that, hopefully a few investments are making some money.

I'm not going to cry for her.

 

[Ham n' Eggs]

Ignore this lady's messed up leg, the particulars there aren't relevant to the question at hand. You don't need the specifics of her situation to understand the implications of lowering the standards for any person or group of people.

-----------------------------------------
Here's the problem as I see it:
By reducing the requirements for one particular person we are either:
A) Lying about the necessity of meeting the current set of minimum standards in order to do the job properly.

In this case you are endangering no-one because every firefighter will have more than is necessary to do the job. On the other hand the excessively high standards will lead to:
1) excessively high morale as everyone will be a badass at their job
2) excess fun had by the firefighters at the firehouse because everyone is so great at their job that the job is cake and every job gets done faster leading to excessive free time to have fun
3) fewer people will be harmed on the job which will lead to excessively high morale (item 1) and thus a feedback loop of excessive goodness, happiness and fun will be created
4) excessively good meals as the free-time to cook nice food will be way too excessive
5) excessively beautiful firetrucks that are the envy of the world because of the excessive amounts of free time for washing the paint and polish the chrome on the firetrucks
6) excessively high happiness levels due to having so much excessive time for smile at pretty ladies (and handsome men).

OR

B) Lying about the ability of a particular firefighter to properly perform the duties of a firefighter.

In this case you are endangering:
1) the firefighter to whom exceptions were made
2) the fellow firefighters who work with this person and who may not have the support they need from that person in a critical situation.
3) the fellow firefighters on a scene where the firefighter who didn't meet the standards gets in trouble due to lack of normal firefighter ability and thus needs to be rescued by fellow firefighters.
4) the public who may be injured or perish due to the lack of ability of a substandard firefighter
6) the public who may be injured or perish due to the absence of sufficient #'s of firefighters because they are rescuing a substandard firefighter from a dangerous situation and are therefore unavailable to save you (the public)
5) the property of the public which may not be saved because of the lack of ability of a substandard firefighter

 

[bshole]

Ignore this lady's messed up leg, the particulars there aren't relevant to the question at hand. You don't need the specifics of her situation to understand the implications of lowering the standards for any person or group of people.



B) Lying about the ability of a particular firefighter to properly perform the duties of a firefighter.

In this case you are endangering:
1) the firefighter to whom exceptions were made
2) the fellow firefighters who work with this person and who may not have the support they need from that person in a critical situation.
3) the fellow firefighters on a scene where the firefighter who didn't meet the standards gets in trouble due to lack of normal firefighter ability and thus needs to be rescued by fellow firefighters.
4) the public who may be injured or perish due to the lack of ability of a substandard firefighter
5) the property of the public which may not be saved because of the lack of ability of a substandard firefighter

The city could be opening itself up to a huge lawsuit if civillians are injured/killed due to the city employing people incompetent for their position. This is such a no-brainer. You have tests adminstered by the city that PROVE that the city knew the person was incompetent at the time the person was hired. A good attorney would parlay this into millions of dollars. It is gross negligence on the part of the city.

 

[Cozarkian]

Her being exempted had nothing to do with stepping out of a fire truck unless I missed the part about her not passing the "stepping out of truck" portion of the exam. People twist their ankles or misstep all the time on the job. Her injury has nothing to do with the exam, it is a common work injury.

That depends. Do the physical tests help identify people with better balance and coordination, who are therefore less likely to trip while stepping out of a truck? Do the tests help identify people with overall better physical health, who will tend to suffer lighter injuries from tripping incidents and/or will recover faster?

Finally, it is common knowledge that physically tired people are more prone to tripping. This person, who was unable to pass the physical tests was likely more physically tired than a typical firefighter after 10 days on the job and therefore had a higher chance of suffering this type of injury.

 

[zinfamous]

sounds like she suffered an injury that could affect anyone no matter their current physical condition. I've seen ball players rip a hamstring running around the bases, and not your Prince Fielder type of ball player either.

This.

That being said, whether you are competing for jobs like fire and rescue or training as a front line soldier, I feel that there are absolute physical requirements that any individual should be expected to meet, as anything less would be a very real danger to your teammates or the people that you are charged with serving.

I don't care about gender and I think anyone should be able to fill a role if they can meet required conditions, but not every job is created equal.


--as for fit baseball players injuring themselves. Remember when Clint Barmes broke his hip or whatever when he was trying to carry deer meat up to his apartment? I think that more or less ended his career.

 

[Ackmed]

So she failed the minimum physical requirements to have the job? But still go the job because she was a "priority hires" (quote from link)? "who Brooklyn federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis ordered must get preference." Ugh, so much wrong with this.

No person should get a job over someone else who is more qualified than they are. Unfortunately that is not the world we live in.

This has been a plague in the Marine Corps the past, last few years even worse. Having a different set of standards for men and women, then thinking they can do the same job is idiotic. And wrong.

 

[silicon]

So she failed the minimum physical requirements to have the job? But still go the job because she was a "priority hires" (quote from link)? "who Brooklyn federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis ordered must get preference." Ugh, so much wrong with this.

No person should get a job over someone else who is more qualified than they are. Unfortunately that is not the world we live in.

This has been a plague in the Marine Corps the past, last few years even worse. Having a different set of standards for men and women, then thinking they can do the same job is idiotic. And wrong.

it's the road to ruin when incompetent people are put into a position for which they are not qualified. What if this was an affirmative action brain surgeon? Who wants to go first? or a dentist? She had no business being there AA or no AA.

 

[Hugo Drax]

That, however, has nothing to do with the argument at hand.

Regardless, in general do you think people who cannot meet minimum job requirements at hand be allowed a position?

I still do not understand, if the person failed the basic requirements how the heck were the even offered the opportunity for the job? To me that sounds reckless when it comes to a job where peoples lives are at risk if the person is not capable of meeting basic capabilities for the job.


Even if she was never injured. I still do not understand why she was allowed to take a job that she is not qualified for.

 

[werepossum]

This is the part where I cry knowing there is no hope.

Oh, and her salary is ~$79k. More than most people here.

That's nice.....

lol She will make more than I while doing nothing but recuperating from an injury sustained as she literally (albeit unsuccessfully) attempted to show up at a job site to do a job for which she could not qualify. And she will get this money from taxpayers whose salary depends on being able to do their jobs. Nice.

 

[Joepublic2]

Why is she a fire fighter "despite failing physical tests"? Someone explain why that is acceptable please.

Because burning to death or dying of smoke inhalation when she's psychically incapable of dragging you out of a burning building are but a small price to pay for "diversity", citizen.

Sounds like the NYFD has a pretty sweet deal, but let's all ignore that and talk about the black girl who shouldn't have been allowed to break into the good ol boys club.

She tried to break into it, but lacked the upper body strength. So she got her good uncle Sam to do it for her.