what happens when you reduce requirements for a female firefighter?

[Sonikku]

If she had been a man I bet she wouldn't have tripped.

 

[who?]

Why does the NYFD pension pay out after only 10 days on the job?

If somebody is horribly injured on their first day on the job as a firefighter, risking their life to protect others, do you think that they should end up financially screwed up as well?

 

[MongGrel]

Why is she a fire fighter "despite failing physical tests"? Someone explain why that is acceptable please.

There is no logical explanation, in reality.

 

[MongGrel]

If somebody is horribly injured on their first day on the job as a firefighter, risking their life to protect others, do you think that they should end up financially screwed up as well?

She should never have been on that job to begin with.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Why should anyone, man or woman, be allowed into firefighting if they can't pass the physical exam?

You know damn well this question will not be answered in any honest way that addresses things such as the ability of this person to preform the duties of a firefighter without others having to pull their weight for them. Instead the discussion will be steered toward ignoring the validity your question altogether by making an appeal toward "Fairness", "Equality", etc.

Or someone will throw out a false insinuation or misrepresentation of the actual question being asked in an effort to throw a label (Sexist, Racist, etc) onto you or others like you for daring to ask this question. Which is a nice way to silence debate on the topic and to shut down such questions.

 

[Vic]

If somebody is horribly injured on their first day on the job as a firefighter, risking their life to protect others, do you think that they should end up financially screwed up as well?

The lack of pension benefits does not prevent someone from receiving compensation in a situation like you described. They would just have to pursue different remedies.

In the meantime, it is VERY unusual for a union pension to pay out disability benefits after only 10 days on the job. Most require a minimum of 60-90 days before a new hire can receive any union benefits at all.
Sounds like the NYFD has a pretty sweet deal, but let's all ignore that and talk about the black girl who shouldn't have been allowed to break into the good ol boys club.

 

[1prophet]

If somebody is horribly injured on their first day on the job as a firefighter, risking their life to protect others, do you think that they should end up financially screwed up as well?

That is what workers compensation and disability insurance is for, pensions and retirement plans should require vesting.

 

[MongGrel]

Just NM.

Threads like that are never worth the effort of posting on at this point.

*edit* On second thought...

 

[MongGrel]

The lack of pension benefits does not prevent someone from receiving compensation in a situation like you described. They would just have to pursue different remedies.

In the meantime, it is VERY unusual for a union pension to pay out disability benefits after only 10 days on the job. Most require a minimum of 60-90 days before a new hire can receive any union benefits at all.
Sounds like the NYFD has a pretty sweet deal, but let's all ignore that and talk about the black girl who shouldn't have been allowed to break into the good ol boys club.

She had been on a desk job before that and other things I believe.

Maybe you should read the OP's link before running in and trying to shift the subject, apparently.

Even failed the graduation test, but because was female was allowed in, like similar things in the Rangers lately.

Unqualified people should not be allowed to take jobs they are not qualified form it puts the other people they are working with at risk as much as in the case of the people they are supposed to be protecting/saving.

"black girl" didn't haven't anything to do with it, maybe you should get your facts straight before trolling.

I guess I should go out and start applying for jobs that require a MBA.

 

[marincounty]

Yeah, the fire dept was so much better when it was staffed only by (drunk) irishmen.
The SFPD screwed up so bad now they have drug/alcohol testing and a woman chief.

 

[MongGrel]

Yeah, the fire dept was so much better when it was staffed only by (drunk) irishmen.
The SFPD screwed up so bad now they have drug/alcohol testing and a woman chief.

I've nothing at all against women, if they pass the requirements.

I was in the Marines and worked with many WM's, knew a WM from Puerto Rico that had a higher rifle score than I did.

They were qualified for their jobs though.

 

[DrPizza]

So people who pass physical exams don't trip and fall? This is a fucking stupid thread.

A lot of people who aren't physically fit also are not very coordinated. I don't think she ought to be given a free pass on coordination. I think that at best, we can say that not enough information was given to know the degree she was responsible for her accident.

 

[Rakehellion]

A lot of people who aren't physically fit also are not very coordinated. I don't think she ought to be given a free pass on coordination. I think that at best, we can say that not enough information was given to know the degree she was responsible for her accident.

Dis she fail the coordination test or the physical fitness test? You're really reaching.

 

[MongGrel]

Dis she fail the coordination test or the physical fitness test? You're really reaching.

I'm pretty sure she failed both actually, from the results.

Why there is a PFT to begin with.

 

[DrPizza]

Dis she fail the coordination test or the physical fitness test? You're really reaching.

Coordination is a part of physical fitness.
Quick google search, and from the top couple of results:

Balance and Coordination is one of the main fitness components, a factor for success in many sports.

Body coordination is a performance-related fitness component that describes the ... [/quote]

For what it's worth, stair climbing is one of the physical fitness events. There are 8 events that are run consecutively - there isn't a pass/fail for each event. Rather, all 8 have to be completed in a certain amount of time. She was unable to do this, of which, stair climbing is a part. So, how again do you know she could climb stairs or a ladder competently?

For what it's worth - the professionals involved in that job found her injury to be "embarrassing and alarming." Seems they too feel that it's something that wouldn't have happened to a firefighter who was physically qualified for the job.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Why is she a fire fighter "despite failing physical tests"? Someone explain why that is acceptable please.

Not passing the exam has nothing to do with her falling! So your question is basically not on topic!

 

[positivedoppler]

Sounds like she was a clumsy and unfit but in a rush to fill a quota they passed her. Her previous job was an EMT so I don't think this was any significant bump in salary for her. Maybe it's her dream to be a fire fighter but didn't have the physical tools.

 

[Subyman]

Missing a step has nothing to do with gender. This thread is hopeless.

 

[Subyman]

Sounds like she was a clumsy and unfit but in a rush to fill a quota they passed her. Her previous job was an EMT so I don't think this was any significant bump in salary for her. Maybe it's her dream to be a fire fighter but didn't have the physical tools.

Dear god, why do you fall in line with the narrative so quickly? She missed a step, she didn't give birth while trying to hose down a building with dying orphans in it.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Not passing the exam has nothing to do with her falling! So your question is basically not on topic!

Is this sarcasm?

 

[Greenman]

There is no logical explanation, in reality.

It could have been a court ordered. That happened in San Francisco many years back. At the time, they desperately needed some Filipino women to meet their hiring requirements, and none could pas the physical requirements, which included being able to carry a person of x size a set distance (Filipino women tend to be small). So they waved the requirements.

 

[bshole]

Here is something from an actual firefighter. People lives depend on the firefighter's ability to carry LARGE amounts of weight over extended distances under horrific conditions. I don't believe there is any legitimate excuse to waive or lessen fitness requirements for anybody. You are risking the life of the applicant and the lives of fire victims when requirements are lowered/waived.

https://lifehardcore.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/485/

I remember carrying at least 100 lbs. in the form of a heavy forcible entry tool called a “rabbit tool” and a fire extinguisher (water can) up 5 flights of stairs to a working fire. When we arrived at the apartment door we had to force the door and then don our masks and go on air. Then we entered the apartment where the kitchen was on fire. This was at 3 am at the end of our shift after working a real ball busting day.

My workout program is clearly defined for an occupational athlete such as myself. I have to maintain good cardio to scale the 5 flights of stairs while carrying a lot of weight. This happens while wearing gear that does not breathe (so you overheat quickly). Once we are at the door of the apartment there is a switching of modes to having to use extreme force to get the door open. We then enter an environment that can kill and perform search and rescue while controlling breathing to conserve our air supply. If a victim is found the rescue may involve you and your partner carrying the fattest person in the building to safety(its never someone skinny). Sliding the person is sometimes not an option so you may have to squat and lift them up (deadlift).

When the fire is over and the work is complete you still have some time before your shift is over. You have to regroup and be prepared for the next emergency.

I train heavy and I mix it up with some high rep stuff. Because I have to keep cardio as a priority I tend to sacrifice some size. I’m a typical guy and I like to bulk up and be big. But when I tried this before (bulking)I noticed that the lack of cardio greatly reduced my ability to perform my job. Over the years I have concluded that my cardio keeps me about ten pounds lighter. That’s ok though because I can handle stairs and swinging an axe and still have enough strength to lift a 250 lb unconscious woman to a window sill and get her and then myself out of the building before I run out of air.

The question is what role could a person fill who is unqualified for the position they have? Who has to pick up the slack for that person's deficiencies? Instead of 2 firefighters carrying 100 lbs of gear, does one get 150 lbs and the other 50? Wouldn't that make the qualified person less able to do their job?

The FDNY for the first time in its history will allow someone who failed its crucial physical fitness test to join the Bravest, The Post has learned.

Rebecca Wax, 33, is set to graduate Tuesday from the Fire Academy without passing the Functional Skills Training test, a grueling obstacle course of job-related tasks performed in full gear with a limited air supply, an insider has revealed.

“They’re going to allow the first person to graduate without passing because this administration has lowered the standard,” said the insider, who is familiar with the training.

Upon graduation, Wax would be assigned to a firehouse and tasked with the full duties of a firefighter.

Some FDNY members are angry.

“We’re being asked to go into a fire with someone who isn’t 100 percent qualified,” the source said. “Our job is a team effort. If there’s a weak link in the chain, either civilians or our members can die.”

http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/

 

[mikeymikec]

The question is what role could a person fill who is unqualified for the position they have?

To begin with, I'll state what hopefully should be obvious - I don't agree with the idea of anyone flunking some entry tests and still being allowed in. However I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of "it must be because she's a woman", partly because there's no evidence AFAIK to support that conclusion but also because female firefighters are employed throughout the world have have been for at least decades; it's extremely unlikely that all of those countries experienced a similar failure of cognitive function along the lines of "we must be PC". I'm sure that "we must be PC" shit does happen, has happened, etc, but to initially believe that it was probably the case in every similar situation suggests a Daily Mail-type perspective on the world.

That aside, and answering the quoted question now - I would have thought that any organisation that has to respond to a wide range of situations would have a diverse representation of personnel (skinny guys, weightlifting women, whatever). Firefighters stereotypically get called to rescue cats up trees for example, or cutting someone out of a crashed car, and a load of other bizarre situations. While I'm sure that the fire service needs more than an average share of heavy weightlifters, I think it's silly to think that they all have to be like that. Ghost in the Shell quote: "If we all reacted the same way, we'd be predictable, and there's always more than one way to view a situation. What's true for the group is also true for the individual. It's simple: Overspecialize, and you breed in weakness."

 

[Hugo Drax]

Not passing the exam has nothing to do with her falling! So your question is basically not on topic!

Actually it does. Since she failed the minimum requirements to be a firefighter, technically she should have never been there.

And if she was not there to begin with, she would have never injured herself.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Is this sarcasm?

are you for real??