StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
this seems to be contradictory There appears to be no hard figure but a merchant can deny your money.
Sure thing, just give me his email and I'll send him a link to this thread. He may find it very enlightening. :laugh:
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
Actually, I usually eat lunch at my desk, while I work... or skip lunch altogether.
Life's a bitch.
The principal should have taken the opportunity to teach the entire school a wonderful civics lesson. His/her failure to see the potential for such a lesson is a sign that maybe he/she isn't qualified to be a principal.
Well aren't you the good little subject.
I'm sorry if you feel that "kids" don't have the right to think for themselves or to question authority but I see the world differently.
I'm sure that if you had a child that was being approached by a teacher and they came to you to discuss it you would tell him/her to just shut up and do it. After all, " These kids should be told what they will do."
These kids acted in a responsible, effective and orderly manner. I'm sorry if that bothers or offends your sense of authoritarian views of the world.
Well, future workers must be properly trained - one cannot simply eliminate lunch all of a sudden. We must gradually shorten lunch over the school years such that by the time they are of working age, kids will know instinctively to eat lunch at their desks while working, rather than taking any lunch at all.
Gooberlx2
Lifer
- May 4, 2001
- 15,381
- 6
- 91
No, they acted in a disrespectful and disruptive manner which interrupted everyone else's ability to obtain their lunch within the short lunch period. That...deserves...detention.
The correct avenue, as the poster you quoted mentioned, is telling their parents to bring it up at a PTA meeting or sign a petition and turn it in to the principle.
Instead, kids in middle school like to rebel because it's the cool thing to do and gets them attention from their peers...not because they truly care about the message they're trying to make.
The kids job at school isn't to question authority, it's to sit down, STFU, and learn what they're there to learn. If the kids want to have a debate on how long their lunch period is, they can debate it with their parents on their own time, not waste what apperantly little they have holding it up on a prank so they can feel important. If they want to act like their opinion is actually important, then they can sign a petition and deliver it to the principle so the principle can see how many people have the b@lls to actually put their name to something.
As for when I have kids, you can be 110% sure I better not find out they're causing F'ing problems at school. Unless the adult is telling them to do something so out of line, my kid better d@mn well follow the instructions they're given, Period. School is not debate class where the kids are equal to the teachers, it's school, where the Teachers are the boss and the kids are there to behave and learn.
You want your kids to question authority? Fine. Have them question your authority with you at your home and have them STFU at school and not waste the Teachers and other kids time.
Unreal.
Chuck
So basically...you're saying kids aren't people? That they have no rights, especially in school? If I may ask, how old are you?
That's pretty drastic... replaced or demoted for giving kids detentions? The fact that this issue is big news and people get so worked up over a detention is a disturbing sign of the times. Back in the day you sucked it up and dealt with it. That's life, serve your freakin detention kid. Now it's righteous indignation over "rights" and national alarm. We're breeding a generation of spoiled, babified victims who are always on the look-out for blame.
However, I do agree it was a teachable moment that could have been treated differently, depending on the exact situation. But I also know how things are in schools, so (besides not being that big a deal) I'm not that bothered by the whole thing. The last thing you want in a middle school is organized disruption... trust me. If the admin thought it was appropriate, I'm inclined to believe them. Yeah, schools can be overbearing and anal, but students (and parents) can be disruptive, disrespectful, and deceitful.
Besides, it's still a lesson in civics. Protesting often involves sacrifice. Make a statement, deal with the consequences. That's pretty much part of the protest.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
In this case, I simply do not see any punishable offense. If I were the principal, I would have recognized it as an amazing effort by the students to force change in a system without resorting to violence or destructive disobedience; and I would have capitalized on the moment to teach the students about bureaucratic processes (petitions), and other forms of reasonable civil disobedience.
In the morning, these kids may have been discussing the Boston Tea Party, or Thomas Paine; yet in the afternoon, after putting their protest in motion, they were given detention.
They may, if their eyes are open, see it as a serious case of hypocrisy.
fair enough... and like you said, this is probably not that big of a deal... I just think the principal acted too quickly, and therefore may not be suited for the position.
This isn't a prank nor a protest. This is 29 kids being complete asshats. They deserved detention.
NikolaeVarius
Lifer
- Oct 25, 2006
- 11,036
- 11
- 91
This.
Pennies SHOULD be taken out of circulation. Whats wrong with having everything end in 5 or 0?
The reason these guys got detention is the fact that they are little assholes that are causing others to miss out on their own meals. There is NO reason why they should have done this.
Sure its "impressive' they protested, but I would be more "impressed" with their protest if they had talked to the principal, written petitions, and talked to the board of Ed, not bring 2000 pennies and pay with that.
And what the hell? 30 minutes is plenty of time for lunch.
I can't believe people are saying rights are being trampled on by this. Its a fucking school. Students have rights taken away as long as they are within school grounds. This has been the policy for years, and nothing bad has come of it. Its a freaking 2 day detention, nothing more, nothing less..
HardcoreRobot
Lifer
- Nov 7, 2000
- 16,404
- 3
- 81
would this have made news if the protest used 40 nickles rather than 100 pennies?
the fact that pennies could be used in this manner is further evidence they need to be retired
props to the students, im sure by this point they don't mind the detentions as they have only served to inform more people of their cause
the fact that pennies could be used in this manner is further evidence they need to be retired
props to the students, im sure by this point they don't mind the detentions as they have only served to inform more people of their cause
This is what's wrong with America today. People finally stop being sheep, stand up for their rights, exercise proper civil disobedience, and they're punished for it by ignorant asses who don't deserve their position. To see this kind of leadership and initiative in middle school kids is AWESOME.
These kids should be PRAISED. Everyone involved in punishing them should be FIRED.
These kids should be PRAISED. Everyone involved in punishing them should be FIRED.
I agree as I have 1st - 8th graders in my classes. The 7th, 8th, 1st, and 2nd graders seem to be the least focused out of all of the students. The 7th and 8th graders will generally complain about anything for any reason without putting any thought into it.
Our administrator would most likely handle the situation like this:
You want more lunch time, ok then, school starts 30 minutes earlier or ends 30 minutes later as we have to have X number of classroom hours by years end.
Giving the lunch lady all pennies was the wrong approach and should be considered disruptive. Try turning in bulk pennies at a bank when the coin sorter is broken, they will most likely make you wait or have you count them yourself.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,981
- 3,318
- 126
Thats what wrong with these forums so often the kids are praising the kids! Even if the kids were wrong or went about proving their point ina disruptive manner!!
Kids are still kids and have to follow adult rules!! Sorry!! That`s just the way it is!!
That`s one reason Ron what`s his name is Ron who?? now.
All his support was from mis- informed kids!
lets see it goes like this --
Who are you voting for?
A--Ron whats his name of course...
Are you old enough to vote?
Well no...but when I am old enough I will vote for Ron whats his name...lol
Peace!!
Kids are people, I never said they weren't. They have rights. Their rights at school are to show up on time, properly clothed, STFU, follow directions, follow the rules, not be disruptive, and learn. Their rights are not to decide how they're going to try and run the school because they don't like something.
I'm 29, no kids.
Chuck
Hmmm, except in this case it's coming from a 35yr old veteran, father, and about to be high school teacher.
Thanks for playing though.
Wow. And you're going to be a teacher? LOL?
Explain to me how this is proper civil disobedience please. I missed that explanation.
37 here, also a veteran ... check
Wait until you get your own classroom then (I have been teaching for 18 months). I applaud and support kids for standing up for themselves, but only if it is focused, constructive, and thought out. Unfortunately most of the kids around 7th - 8th grade aren't focused and it ends up being anarchy which you do not want in your classroom / school. From the article it sounds like the kids didn't think it out, or file a formal request / complaint, they reacted and got in trouble. Try something like that at your place of work without having union support and see where it gets you.Fortunately I teach in a public charter school where mutual respect is present. If the students have a gripe they know that they address it to the student counsel for resolution instead of having an impromptu protest.
"Civil disobedience is the active refusal to obey certain laws, demands and commands of a government, or of an occupying power, without resorting to physical violence."
Were any LAWS broken by the protesters?
Was anyone's safety threatened by the actions of the protesters?
Were the protesters in any way violent?
Instead of punishing them, how about granting them a public forum. Explain the position and requirements upon administration and develop a dialogue. While you're at it, praise them for their initiative and concern, but offer them alternatives to their chosen method of protest that would have been less disruptive while still expressing their concerns in an impacting way.
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
37 here, also a veteran ... check
Fortunately I teach in a public charter school where mutual respect is present. If the students have a gripe they know that they address it to the student counsel for resolution instead of having an impromptu protest.
Just because you suffer consequences for something doesn't mean you weren't right to do it.
"Arguably, the Riders did not engage in civil disobedience because the Supreme Court's decision in Boynton v. Virginia granted them a legal right to disregard local segregation ordinances regarding interstate transportation facilities. But their rights were not enforced, and were considered criminal acts throughout most of the South. For example, upon the Riders' arrival in Mississippi, their journey ended with imprisonment for exercising their legal rights in interstate travel, and similar arrests took place in other southern cities. Freedom Riders knew that they faced arrest by authorities determined to stop their protests and possible mob violence and before starting they committed themselves to a strategy of non-violent resistance."
Was it a public school? If the students contest this as a free speech act, they will win for sure so long as it's a public school (ie public land). If it's a private school, well, private schools can kind of do whatever they want.
I know some public universities have tried to establish "free speech zones" for protests, and when they were challenged they all lost. It's public land, so long as you're not disruptive your free speech is protected.
Furthermore, pennis are legal tender, so there was nothing wrong with what they did. I'd like the administrators to point to the rule that explicitly states that you can't use legal federal tender (pennies) to purchase lunch.
I know some public universities have tried to establish "free speech zones" for protests, and when they were challenged they all lost. It's public land, so long as you're not disruptive your free speech is protected.
Furthermore, pennis are legal tender, so there was nothing wrong with what they did. I'd like the administrators to point to the rule that explicitly states that you can't use legal federal tender (pennies) to purchase lunch.
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