What does 'far-left' actually (theoretically?) mean?

[MrSquished]

Far left, like far right, means adhering to ALL ideas of one side of the political spectrum. Simple as that. The political spectrum is broken down into 3 relevant parts.

1) Society at large (value of the individual)
2) Government power vs individual power (the role of the people vs the government)
3) Government ownership vs individual ownership (the control of the economy)

The simple questions can be asked for this to determine where you stand.

1) Do you believe all people are equal/same?

If you answer no to this then that is a right side political spectrum ideology. If your answer is yes or have to quibble on the answer then you are on the left side of the spectrum for society.

2) Do you believe people can make their own decisions?

If you believe a person is capable of self rule and doesn't need government to rule for them then that is a right side political stance. If you believe that government is good or has a place in society then that is a left side.

3) Do you believe in people owning personal property?

If you say yes then you are again on the right side. If you say no or have to quibble on this then you are on the left side.

Answer those questions honestly and add them up. I am right leaning personally. Here is my breakdown.

1) no (right side)
2) I quibble a bit here since I respect people's right to make their own decision but I see a greater need for government intervention with limits. (left side)
3) yes (right side)

As far as social wedge issues such as abortion, religion, or other crap those things are neither right side nor left side political stances. They are tools from each side to leverage for political gain. Nothing more and nothing less. Those are political "issues" because they can be used to effectively garner support to one side of the political spectrum versus the other.

You are serious aren't you?

 

[fskimospy]

It's the basics of the political system. I am not sure about your answer to number 1, but your discourse around here for questions 2 and 3 put you on the left side from my perspective.

I don't believe all people are equal and anyone who pays even the slightest attention here would know I'm a big believer in personal property.

The thing is, I'm not a conservative and everyone here knows it. The point is your rubric is bad.

 

[HumblePie]

You are serious aren't you?

It's the basics building blocks taught in almost every good civics or political course.

 

[HumblePie]

I don't believe all people are equal and anyone who pays even the slightest attention here would know I'm a big believer in personal property.

The thing is, I'm not a conservative and everyone here knows it. The point is your rubric is bad.

Oh so you advocate for every being able to own any firearm without restrictions then? The fact you haven't in the past shows you aren't not a big believer in personal property by that alone.

Also LEFT vs RIGHT is not CONSERVATIVE vs LIBERAL in terms of standpoints. Conservative means maintaining the status quo and recognizing the established institutions in a society. Liberal means the opposite. You can be a lefty conservative or a right liberal. My rubric is the basis for LEFT vs RIGHT. Not other shades of political viewpoints. The OP was asking specifically about LEFT vs RIGHT.

 

[Muse]

Conservative and Liberal are the diametrically opposed viewpoints. Left and Right are not necessarily aligned with either of those. You can have a lefty conservatives and a righty liberal. Liberals vs Conservative are more focused on those social "wedge" issues for a given society than on political spectrum.

I don't think in those dialectical/political differentiational terms. I don't think in terms of categories for people either.

I do notice that powerful Republicans very often call relatively centrist Democrats socialists, communists, radical left-wingers.

 

[HumblePie]

I don't think in those dialectical/political differentiational terms. I don't think in terms of categories for people either.

I'm not the one coming up with categories. It is what it is. There is a difference between left and right political systems. There is a difference between liberal and conservative political viewpoints. Conflating one with the other seems like a personal problem you have.

 

[Muse]

I'm not the one coming up with categories. It is what it is. There is a difference between left and right political systems. There is a difference between liberal and conservative political viewpoints. Conflating one with the other seems like a personal problem you have.

Uh, what problem? I don't conflate right with left, liberal with conservative? WTF can you possibly be talking about?

And don't gaslight me.

 

[HumblePie]

Uh, what problem? I don't conflate right with left, liberal with conservative? WTF can you possibly be talking about?

No, you are conflating left with liberal, and right with conservative. Let me put it this way. Take your average liberal here in the US and have them move to a country like Venezuela . Many of their viewpoints would align with those of the establishment already done there. Such viewpoints would not be considered liberal in that part of the world but conservative for that society. Liberal literally means not respecting the status quo and conservative means the opposite, regardless of what the political system being used is be it LEFT or RIGHT. As I said, you are conflating liberal with left and conservative with right. That is an incorrect categorization.

 

[MrSquished]

No, you are conflating left with liberal, and right with conservative. Let me put it this way. Take your average liberal here in the US and have them move to a country like Venezuela . Many of their viewpoints would align with those of the establishment already done there. Such viewpoints would not be considered liberal in that part of the world but conservative for that society. Liberal literally means not respecting the status quo and conservative means the opposite, regardless of what the political system being used is be it LEFT or RIGHT. As I said, you are conflating liberal with left and conservative with right. That is an incorrect categorization.

You are seriously bonkers. The average liberal here does not believe in the state control of a command economy nor of the elimination of personal property. Seriously, you are a goner.

 

[HumblePie]

You are seriously bonkers. The average liberal here does not believe in the state control of a command economy nor of the elimination of personal property. Seriously, you are a goner.

I didn't claim what the average liberal believes or doesn't. You just did. Only what many of the average liberal in the US believe in regards to left vs right political systems.

I said liberalism is defined as not respecting the status quo of a given societies' institutions. As with most things, there are shades to that statement. A person that does advocate for state command economies would be a liberal in a country that doesn't have that political system. Also, the people that wanted the Boy Scouts of America to include girls would also be liberals even if those same people don't want a state command economy. Both of those examples are a societal institution being advocated for change.

 

[Leymenaide]

In political theory it basically means socialist.
Keep in mind what political theorists call socialism and what modern Americans call socialism are VERY different things.

By the way, neither the Soviets nor the Chinese ever practiced real communism. They practiced fake communism and lied about it.
Joe McCarthy was too stupid to know it. As are 99 percent of American Republicans. If you wanna see examples of real communism you'd need to hunt down American hippies. Their groups are almost always under a hundred people and they're only able to farm and survive, they're disconnected from the rest of us.
Amish too.

Religious orders Nuns and Friars those that live in cloisters are are the best examples of large scale socialist societies. The American Shakers as well. They all did not reproduce therefore dependent on attracting new members. These groups are extremely self sufficient often closing out the outside world. They seem to have had a pretty good run.

The left or the extreme left is anybody that sees life could be better for all if we worked more together and stopped pretending we are born on a level playing field.

 

[MrSquished]

I didn't claim what the average liberal believes or doesn't. You just did. Only what many of the average liberal in the US believe in regards to left vs right political systems.

I said liberalism is defined as not respecting the status quo of a given societies' institutions. As with most things, there are shades to that statement. A person that does advocate for state command economies would be a liberal in a country that doesn't have that political system. Also, the people that wanted the Boy Scouts of America to include girls would also be liberals even if those same people don't want a state command economy. Both of those examples are a societal institution being advocated for change.

I bolded the part of your statement that I responded to. It's completely asinine.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Progressive versus Regressive

That what it means now.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh so you advocate for every being able to own any firearm without restrictions then? The fact you haven't in the past shows you aren't not a big believer in personal property by that alone.

What you're doing now is trying to come up with excuses as to why your rubric wasn't stupid, which it unfortunately is. A belief in personal property does not mean we have to permit people to own their own nuclear weapons, for example.

Also LEFT vs RIGHT is not CONSERVATIVE vs LIBERAL in terms of standpoints. Conservative means maintaining the status quo and recognizing the established institutions in a society. Liberal means the opposite. You can be a lefty conservative or a right liberal. My rubric is the basis for LEFT vs RIGHT. Not other shades of political viewpoints. The OP was asking specifically about LEFT vs RIGHT.

No, that is simply not how those terms are used.

 

[BlueWeasel]

In my neck of the woods, far left is anyone who doesn't support (worship) Trump.

 

[HumblePie]

I bolded the part of your statement that I responded to. It's completely asinine.

Your average liberal in the US these days is advocating for socialism which is a state command economy by degrees. Well, I should qualify that to younger liberal citizen these days. Those fighting against other societal institutional foundations are more or less what people call "classic" liberal these days. They are also getting rarer these days.

 

[fskimospy]

In my neck of the woods, far left is anyone who doesn't support (worship) Trump.

In my hometown because my evangelical christian, anti-abortion, lifelong Republican voting friend couldn't support lifelong criminal and serial sex offender Trump she was considered a liberal.

 

[BlueWeasel]

In my hometown because my evangelical christian, anti-abortion, lifelong Republican voting friend couldn't support lifelong criminal and serial sex offender Trump she was considered a liberal.

I think she's my neighbor.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Far left, like far right, means adhering to ALL ideas of one side of the political spectrum. Simple as that. The political spectrum is broken down into 3 relevant parts.

1) Society at large (value of the individual)
2) Government power vs individual power (the role of the people vs the government)
3) Government ownership vs individual ownership (the control of the economy)

The simple questions can be asked for this to determine where you stand.

1) Do you believe all people are equal/same?

If you answer no to this then that is a right side political spectrum ideology. If your answer is yes or have to quibble on the answer then you are on the left side of the spectrum for society.

2) Do you believe people can make their own decisions?

If you believe a person is capable of self rule and doesn't need government to rule for them then that is a right side political stance. If you believe that government is good or has a place in society then that is a left side.

3) Do you believe in people owning personal property?

If you say yes then you are again on the right side. If you say no or have to quibble on this then you are on the left side.

Answer those questions honestly and add them up. I am right leaning personally. Here is my breakdown.

1) no (right side)
2) I quibble a bit here since I respect people's right to make their own decision but I see a greater need for government intervention with limits. (left side)
3) yes (right side)

As far as social wedge issues such as abortion, religion, or other crap those things are neither right side nor left side political stances. They are tools from each side to leverage for political gain. Nothing more and nothing less. Those are political "issues" because they can be used to effectively garner support to one side of the political spectrum versus the other.

Sorry but this is absurd. Way to simplistic and highly inaccurate. I will go after the most insane first which is "Do you believe in people owning personal property?"

Who the hell doesn't think people should own personal property? Acknowledge your stance on this is insane and we can then get to the next on the list.

 

[HumblePie]

What you're doing now is trying to come up with excuses as to why your rubric wasn't stupid, which it unfortunately is. A belief in personal property does not mean we have to permit people to own their own nuclear weapons, for example.

Wrong. It is a simple rubric with a simple outcome that wonderfully demonstrates the dichotomy between LEFT vs RIGHT political spectrum. Yes, a FULL RIGHT SIDE would believe in any and all right to own any personal property. Full stop there. Even nuclear weapons. Owning isn't the same as using it either. Hence that decision making part of the rubric. Again, if you have to quibble or add a shade of gray to your answer for the question then that makes that answer a LEFT answer. Period. You don't 100% believe in personal property ownership. You have a shade of gray. You are not right side on that stance in the rubric there. I am.

No, that is simply not how those terms are used.

Yes. You are flat out wrong here.

For reference, 100% far right is an anarchist. They don't believe in any government construct above the individual. Far left would be pure 100% communism believer. Most people fall in somewhere in the middle.

 

[HumblePie]

Sorry but this is absurd. Way to simplistic and highly inaccurate. I will go after the most insane first which is "Do you believe in people owning personal property?"

Who the hell doesn't think people should own personal property? Acknowledge your stance on this is insane and we can then get to the next on the list.

LOTS of people don't believe in personal property ownership. Socialism/communism is the basis of that belief. The belief that everything should be shared and owned by no one.

 

[MrSquished]

Your average liberal in the US these days is advocating for socialism which is a state command economy by degrees. Well, I should qualify that to younger liberal citizen these days. Those fighting against other societal institutional foundations are more or less what people call "classic" liberal these days. They are also getting rarer these days.

You are completely wrong. Your average liberal in the US wants regulations on privately owned companies with government investment in infrastructure, which does not equal a command economy. Also they strongly believe in private property. You are just wrong about everything.

 

[MrSquished]

We are witnessing the fallacy of the conservative mind that has been melted by years of right-wing propaganda. They create invisible bogeymen to try to defend their ideals with by making them seem more reasonable. They have to, because otherwise everyone would see how nuts they are.

 

[zzyzxroad]

LOTS of people don't believe in personal property ownership. Socialism/communism is the basis of that belief. The belief that everything should be shared and owned by no one.

A lot of people in the US? That is insane. I have never talked to a single person who thinks that or anything close to it. For you to say that is a common believe is either rooted in delusion or dishonesty. Which is it?


Us communist is such a fringe group it not worth talking about. You realize that right?

 

[HumblePie]

You are completely wrong. Your average liberal in the US wants regulations on privately owned companies with government investment in infrastructure, which does not equal a command economy. Also they strongly believe in private property. You are just wrong about everything.

Your average young liberal in America these days advocate for socialism constructs. Those are government command constructs. Period. That has been what I've seen and through my experience.