What does 'far-left' actually (theoretically?) mean?

[obidamnkenobi]

In the US does it really matter? The far right is relevant here because they actually grabbed power and are extremists. The farthest left in national government are not extremists. The want things like some form of national healthcare. This isn't an extreme view and it shouldn't even be a discussion. The rest of our peers in the work have moved to this and it is clearly the most viably solution. They also support reducing man made carbon emissions and investing in renewable energy sources. They also support broad gun regulation is the are I most differ from them. I personally don't think that is a wise use of time but at least their heart seems to be in the right place.

This is the important point. In the USA it doesn't matter. The far-right has multiple representatives in the house, senate, arguably recent presidents, governors, sheriffs, and most of all state governments! The far left (whatever it is) has virtually zero power and are mostly ragtag groups dreaming of a worker's revolution and guillotines.

For the record IMO far left is public ownership of means of production, achieved either democratically or revolution.

 

[soulcougher73]

LOTS of people don't believe in personal property ownership. Socialism/communism is the basis of that belief. The belief that everything should be shared and owned by no one.

Or it could be owned by everyone? I don't believe in what you are talking about personally, but if taxes are paying for it and everyone has access. Then everyone owns it is another way to look at it.

 

[soulcougher73]

Your desire for belittling the categorization rubric doesn't make it any less correct. You are also still trying like so many to conflate Conservative with Right and Liberal with Left. Especially in regards to US politics. The definition for what defines LEFT vs RIGHT on the political spectrum is literally that simple. That doesn't mean people are that simple. That is why there is very few far left or far right people in the world. Not that there aren't, but I've never met one. If you can answer without quibble or explanation a hard line NO or YES to any of those questions in the rubric, then you are far left or far right on that answer only. If you have to create your own definition, which most people do, then you are somewhere closer to the middle.

That was all I was trying to illustrate with that rubric. The fact that so many people here seem to not understand such a simple concept here in beyond me.

It's like 50 vs. You. Maybe the problem is you cant grasp complex concepts so you like to keep them simple? Simple is for simpletons.

It's always funny when everyone is in agreement but 1 person and that 1 person thinks its everyone else.

 

[soulcougher73]

Nah dude. I'm pretty sure I know a shit ton of people that you would consider far leftist, including myself, that think nothing of the sort or even remotely close to that. Surprisingly enough, all of them believe in personal and private property too.

You just haven't gone FAR enough left yet....duh. You know. So far it doesn't exist in reality, only in theory.

 

[Lezunto]

But it wasn’t always this way. Had I been the same age I am now and of similar socio-economic status in the 1950s, I would no doubt be an Eisenhower Republican. I’d probably even vote Nixon over JFK (pre-Civil Rights era.)

These “reasonable economic regulations” and the taxes to pay for these policies only became “ridiculous” once the Civil Rights Act meant that blacks would start to see a benefit too.

Blacks always built up their own businesses and communities in the hopes they would be left alone.

Unfortunately, some Whites saw a thriving Black business area as an insult and a threat. The list of rage and jealous attacks is long: Tulsa -Black Wall Street, 1921, Colfax, La., 1873 when a group of Black men tried to assemble at a court house, 150 of them were murdered.

Rosewood, Fla., was burned to the ground in 1923 after a local White woman claimed she was attacked by a Negro

Some Blacks managed to get elected to some posts in Wilmington, N.C., but in 1898 White resentment over such advancement led to another race massacre. There are many more.

We on the so-called Left need Unity. We're not always going to agree. But we should at least seek to help the those suffering the most.

 

[Muse]

I generally consider myself a moderate, but perhaps I lean a little bit to the left sometimes.

The Political Compass

explanation of the Political Compass model

www.politicalcompass.org

Well, if that's your chart, you were pulling on our legs so hard, we can make a stew of them!

 

[zzyzxroad]

This is the important point. In the USA it doesn't matter. The far-right has multiple representatives in the house, senate, arguably recent presidents, governors, sheriffs, and most of all state governments! The far left (whatever it is) has virtually zero power and are mostly ragtag groups dreaming of a worker's revolution and guillotines.

For the record IMO far left is public ownership of means of production, achieved either democratically or revolution.

Exactly. "IMO far left is public ownership of means of production" sounds a lot like communism but there are probably 200 times as many flat earthers in the US than people who believe communism is viable. So does the far left simply not exist in the US or is the definition something different here?

I also find it interesting that the far right is really easy to define. We all know some of them and probably have a few in our family.

 

[HumblePie]

It's like 50 vs. You. Maybe the problem is you cant grasp complex concepts so you like to keep them simple? Simple is for simpletons.

It's always funny when everyone is in agreement but 1 person and that 1 person thinks its everyone else.

On this board. Seriously, this is a massive echo chamber of a forum. Using the mob logic fallacy argument doesn't prove anything.

 

[HumblePie]

No, I'm really not interested in your attempt to make a round block fit through a square hole. You claim to want civil discourse but you concede nothing even in the face of your points being utterly annihilated. You just keep blathering as if what you're saying is true despite obvious evidence to the contrary and the best you can do to support your argument is opinion pieces.

Life is too short to waste it arguing with people like yourself.

Uhh, no. I was using the opinion pieces for how other people outside this forum can see AOC and Bernie's policies as being similar to what Venezuela had previously. That sort of view can only be opinionated. That was also an entirely different conversation.

I originally was answering the OP topic of what the "definition" of far left really meant. I posted a simple 3 question test that can be used to illustrate what far left or far right is. Those questions are based on the exact definition from the links that YOU posted. Eski and then Ewdotson went on a tangent about slavery. Of which Ewdotson seemed to finally get the point I was making there by the end of that tangent discussion. However, nothing you or anyone else in this thread have posted here has disproven the original 3 question test I was using to illustrate the definition YOU posted of the definition for left-wing and right-wing politics. Many in this thread seemed to be upset at the idea of what far left by definition means as I feel that many in this thread want to identify with the definition of far left, but aren't actually as far left as they think they are. No one has owned or annihilated anything I've said in this thread at all. Until you can disprove how my 3 questions don't relate or illustrate the definitions again that YOU posted, you haven't disproven my statements in this thread. Pull your head out your ass and thick objectively on this. Again FAR left is that the social structure of everyone being exactly equal in society is the literal definition for it. FAR right is that every individual can be their own king if they desire or trash if they want to be that too. The ideas of how to use government to achieve those definition outcomes are what my rubric tries to illustrate.

 

[ecogen]

HumblePie is a secret M, change my view.

 

[Amol S.]

There actually is two direct answers to this question.

The first is the Socialist Alternative party :

Socialist Alternative (United States) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The second is the Communist Party USA:

Communist Party USA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[HumblePie]

HumblePie is a secret M, change my view.

Meh. I barely come into this forum because it basically doesn't allow civil discourse. Only threads I post in this forum are in relation to law cases, 2nd amendment, and random things that are usually easy to figure out by looking up a definition like this. I don't post anything on my political views otherwise, condemn anyone for their views, or bother with the social drama enveloping the world these days. Still there are idiots like darkswordsmand and nickqt that rather follow me around to every thread like some freak cyber bullies thinking they got something on me with their posts and name call every time. They do what they can to continue to make this place the echo chamber they want it to be. I don't even post actual political views here. There isn't a point since I know from long ago no one on this forum cares about actually trying to listen to other view points and not just argue with logic fallacies constantly. Maybe it is a bit masochistic of me to walk into the echo chamber at all. Oh well.

 

[ecogen]

Meh. I barely come into this forum because it basically doesn't allow civil discourse. Only threads I post in this forum are in relation to law cases, 2nd amendment, and random things that are usually easy to figure out by looking up a definition like this. I don't post anything on my political views otherwise, condemn anyone for their views, or bother with the social drama enveloping the world these days. Still there are idiots like darkswordsmand and nickqt that rather follow me around to every thread like some freak cyber bullies thinking they got something on me with their posts and name call every time. They do what they can to continue to make this place the echo chamber they want it to be. I don't even post actual political views here. There isn't a point since I know from long ago no one on this forum cares about actually trying to listen to other view points and not just argue with logic fallacies constantly. Maybe it is a bit masochistic of me to walk into the echo chamber at all. Oh well.

They hated Jesus because he told them the truth.

 

[brycejones]

They hated Jesus because he told them the truth.

My only concern with this post is HumblePie might think he is Jesus.

 

[Pohemi]

Meh. I barely come into this forum because it basically doesn't allow civil discourse. Only threads I post in this forum are in relation to law cases, 2nd amendment, and random things that are usually easy to figure out by looking up a definition like this.

And yet, you still post definitions and then go on to misrepresent what they state or signify because you are a dishonest shithead.

If you want 'civil discourse', try honest discussion for once. Just maybe.

Until then? Fuck off.

 

[brycejones]

logic fallacies

Didn't they cover those when you attended law school?

 

[HumblePie]

And yet, you still post definitions and then go on to misrepresent what they state or signify because you are a dishonest shithead.

If you want 'civil discourse', try honest discussion for once. Just maybe.

Until then? Fuck off.

How have I misrepresented it? You haven't proven anything. All you do is state I misrepresented when I post actual citations and logical reasoning for my statements. You don't even try honest discussion at all. No one here has yet to actually logically been able to refute my original post in this thread with my 3 question test in its illustration of the definitions as posted by the OP through his wiki links. Instead it has been nothing but name calling a logic fallacies as if something my illustration through questions to ask yourself is a condemnation of anyone's views. Literally you had several people in this thread taking victimhood approach to the definition explanations I made. Taking a victimhood stance doesn't in anyway refute what I have posted in here. You rather just tell others to "fuck off" if you don't like what they post. Well take it up with wiki and other places that have listed those definitions instead. I didn't make the definitions I just repeated them.

 

[mikeymikec]

There actually is two direct answers to this question.

The first is the Socialist Alternative party :

Socialist Alternative (United States) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The second is the Communist Party USA:

Communist Party USA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I didn't ask what far-left organisations exist in the US, but about what far-left actually means as far as the whole world is concerned.

 

[Pohemi]

You haven't proven anything. All you do is state I misrepresented when I post actual citations and logical reasoning for my statements.

If the articles post logical reasoning, you sure as hell don't pass it on in your messaging.

You don't even try honest discussion at all.

Projection.

No one here has yet to actually logically been able to refute my original post...

More bullshit. It's been refuted several times over and your positing pointed out to be complete horseshit. The fact that you ignore people's responses and logic does NOT reinforce your own bullshit.

Instead it has been nothing but misrepresentations and bullshit from me.

And in the end, I have to alter a statement from you to get any amount of truth out of it.

Of course I haven't "disproven" anything you stated, because you stated nothing factual, nothing but shit being flung at a wall. You posted links, and then promptly lied about what they show.

Shut the fuck up, liar.

 

[Lezunto]

I've always liked "Economic Fairness" as a slogan.

Never thought the term "socialism" would go over well with the majority of voters.

 

[pmv]

This is the important point. In the USA it doesn't matter. The far-right has multiple representatives in the house, senate, arguably recent presidents, governors, sheriffs, and most of all state governments! The far left (whatever it is) has virtually zero power and are mostly ragtag groups dreaming of a worker's revolution and guillotines.

For the record IMO far left is public ownership of means of production, achieved either democratically or revolution.

I disagree with that last line - if it's supposed to acheived democratically then that's "the peaceful road to socialism" and not 'far left'. The 'far left' tend to be contemptuous towards that idea.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I've always liked "Economic Fairness" as a slogan.

Never thought the term "socialism" would go over well with the majority of voters.

That's one of the saddest most fucked up things I've seen anyone write in this forum the entire time I've been here. I don't even disagree that its probably true. But it shows exactly why America is fucked.

 

[zinfamous]

Another attack the messenger fallacy.

A fallacy involves a non-legitimate argument or strategy. You do know that sources can actually be accepted as wholly non-credible, right?

Do you understand that?

It is not a fallacy when the source is wholly determined to be non-credible. That actually exists, and is one of many well-established principles that we, as humans, have accepted for generations as part of standard, healthy debate. You don't get to just toss out bullshit that you invent on the spot, and expect other people to accept your failure to understand how any of this works as a credible tactic.

The more you attempt to bullshit your way out of inarguable, established principles of debate, the less credible you establish yourself to be. Do you understand that?

 

[Lezunto]

The country is on an unclear path because of unrestrained rage and anger.

 

[Leeea]

The country is on an unclear path because of unrestrained rage and anger.

Look at how much money is now spent on elections.

Someone is making a lot of money off of rage and anger.