Few things say "I'm an idiot!" more clearly than citing to the Preamble of the Constitution as authority for a specific gov't power. Make that same argument in any federal court in the land, and the bench would laugh itself silly right before issuing a summary judgment against you.
Few things say "I'm an idiot!" more clearly than citing to the Preamble of the Constitution as authority for a specific gov't power. Make that same argument in any federal court in the land, and the bench would laugh itself silly right before issuing a summary judgment against you.
True, but stay at home moms contribute nothing to society as far as taxes/payments go. They are not earning money, not being taxed on income. Should they be entitled to benefits used by other's tax dollars if they contributed nothing? Simple enough solution: Spouses are entitled to contributions based on their spouse.
If someone is married, mom is stay home, father works for 20 years, mom is entitled to benefits earned by father, such as medical coverage, etc.
Another incentive of paying the marriage tax.
But I was just giving an example, there would have to be more than 30 seconds of thought into the idea. Which is all I've devoted to it. I think if someone puts some brain power into it and does some critical thinking, I believe a fair system could be fleshed out which can't really be abused in the manner it is today.
Yes. Do you have a list of basics that you think Americans are entitled to or not? Don't forget to put A/C on there.
That sounds very messy. But please, are you willing to list what you CURRENTLY think is "infrastructure" (and what most people call entitlements)?
GroundedSailor
Platinum Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 2,502
- 0
- 76
Thanks for your polite comments.
The preamble is a statement of intent of the rest of the document and courts do refer to it to try and understand the intent of the founding fathers.
Everything is not always black & white.
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Infohawk really seems to have changed. I remember him/her being much more liberal, but it's still early, so most of my memories are fuzzy!
A few years back most of P&N was focused on Iraq. I have been and still am completely against the neocon agenda. Also, Bush and the right were really focusing on social issues where I also am more on the side of liberals. That's why you remember me as liberal.
Now economic issues are taking center stage on P&N and I trend towards free markets (might have changed on this a bit over the years) which is why some partisans are resorting to name-calling. If there's one thing that hasn't changed on P&N, it's that personal attacks are okay.
Most people can afford to treat themselves. More would be able to rely on family to help them out. Some truly might not be able to help themselves. A lot of people could just do what our ancestors did: deal with it. (Think allergies.) If we had to give them handouts, I would prefer a separate program. But let's admit that a lot of diabetics have brought the condition on themselves.
Another example example of how personal attacks are still welcome on P&N. Anyway, do you have a list of entitlements you think people should have beyond A/C? (And shame on you for not thinking of the environment. A/C leads to pollution.)
You are right. It could be interpreted to mean any number of things, but somehow I doubt that our founding fathers intended for us to interpret it as grounds for government mandated/run health insurance and retirement money. Whether that's true or not (which it is), I will admit it's not grounds to dismiss those enterprises today. I guess at heart I'm a conservative in the truest sense. We need a small government that focuses on regulating these things rather than providing them. It's becoming more and more obvious as our deficit grows and grows, as our government finds more and more new things to spend money on that we don't have.
If the government could balance a budget, and could be trusted to truly keep our general welfare at the foremost of its mind, then I'm not sure that I'd have a problem with government handouts. But let's be honest, it cannot do either of those things, given our recent past.
And they're right, using the Preamble as a justification of almost anything doesn't hold up in court. I do agree however that it's not like we should discount it, but the word is "promote," not "provide" as previously noted. You could still interpret that many ways, but to interpret "promote" as providing retirement checks, that's a stretch.
It uses electricity. As far as I can tell we don't have any completely clean source of electricity yet.
In any case, this is a side-issue. What, if any, entitlements do you think AMericans should have a right to?
You're right; the tone of my response was harsher than it needed to be. For that, I apologize. I am admittedly exasperated with the several times people have cited to the Preamble as some sort of justification for the specific exercise of gov't power, especially gov't-run healthcare. If anyone honestly thinks the Preamble is anything more than a vague and flowerly statement of intent, then you might as well ignore the rest of the document - practically any action can be justified as "promoting the general welfare" and such.
See above. Find me one case of record from any federal court citing to the Preamble as the basis for a specific exercise of federal power.
In this case, it is.
her209
No Lifer
- Oct 11, 2000
- 56,336
- 11
- 0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity
Besides what's included in the Constitution:
- education (preschool - high school)
- order and tranquility as enforced by the local police department
- preventative health care
- proper waste/sewage disposal
- privacy in their personal lives
- ability to "marry" who they want
I'm sure more will come to mind later.
Some people think it's unconscionable to have to live with out it. I guess you should have to pay for other people to have it then right...
Dams mess up local ecosystems and downriver ecosystems. Nuclear power drives up the temperature of the water source it uses for cooling, harming the ecosystems. I'm not saying we shouldn't use these sources of power or that people shouldn't be allowed to use A/C, but there is an evironmental cost to funding modern luxuries for everyone and their illegal mother.
Hey kids, do you remember learning about the Era of Enlightenment in school? Welcome to the 21st century version... the Era of Entitlement.
:|
:|
This is why areas like the Middle East and most of Africa were simply unpopulated prior to the invention of air conditioning!
nobodyknows
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2008
- 5,474
- 0
- 0
So do floods.
I personally think anybody that is working fulltime at ANY job should be not only be able to afford air conditioning, carpet on the floor, and beef roast once a week, but have decent, affordable health care.
Anybody who disagrees with me is obviously nothing but an evil neocon.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
- 3,321
- 126
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Infohawk really seems to have changed. I remember him/her being much more liberal, but it's still early, so most of my memories are fuzzy!
A few years back most of P&N was focused on Iraq. I have been and still am completely against the neocon agenda. Also, Bush and the right were really focusing on social issues where I also am more on the side of liberals. That's why you remember me as liberal.
Now economic issues are taking center stage on P&N and I trend towards free markets (might have changed on this a bit over the years) which is why some partisans are resorting to name-calling. If there's one thing that hasn't changed on P&N, it's that personal attacks are okay.
sticks and stones will break your bones, but names will never hurt you!
You haven't factored in the materials and energy used to build and maintain hydroelectric plants and the transmission of power across miles and miles.
Nothing is free.
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