What do you think AMD's response to GTX 1050 and GTX 1050 Ti will be?

[tajoh111]

Sorry but Steam Hardware Survey is a joke, there are no RX400 in DX-12 cards in latest survey and we all know a lot of them were sold the last 3 months. Funny thing is, they were included in the last survey.
RX 460 4GB $145 price was also a joke, but AMD milked it as far as they could because NV had nothing new to counter. Now RX 460 price will fall where is had to be in the first place and that is at $99.
Thats what competition does

The rx 460 was a bad seller from the beginning. Rebates for the card putting the card below MSRP were out almost immediately and almost a month ago, rx460 could be had for 90 for the 2gb model and 115 for the 4gb model. That's a huge drop considering according to you, it had no competition.

It a fact that it was just badly priced from the get go.

It offered nothing new for gtx 950 owner which btw was competition from NV prior to the gtx 1050 and ti release. It also offered little buying incentive for people waiting for a AMD equivalent to the gtx 950. Same performance, same power consumption, same cost and the gtx 950 was available for months.

And it price to performance was terrible vs anything 180 and up to 300 dollars. These factor lead to the card getting the lowest scores for reviews. It funny the lack of criticism from people like you for the rx460 until now with the gtx 1050 ti release. The fact that you were praising the rx460 should mean you should be shouting from the rooftops for the gtx 1050 ti, which has the same price but like 30% better performance.

The same criticism that is being launched at the gtx 1050 ti, infinitely apply more to the rx460. This being rx460 pricing was not in a vacuum and the rx460 didn't have any sort of monopoly. The rx470, rx480 and even the gtx 1060 took sales away from the rx460 sales on top of cards like the gtx 950. For a new card in the mainstream, a common characteristic in this range is price to performance. However in regards to this characteristic, it was an abomination. Add in this was the value brand, and it had no excuse for having such a high price.

Atleast the gtx 1050 ti's price difference with the rx470 resembles the performance difference between the two cards unlike the rx460's. The rx460 was horribly priced and it deserves the low sales.

 

[AtenRa]

Sorry but RX 460 competition was the GTX 750Ti and not the GTX 950. You may had GTX 950 at $140 or lower After Rebates but that doesnt make it a direct competitor to the RX 460.
Also, nobody ever said that RX 460 had the best perf/$. And let me remind you what i have said about the RX 460

Agreed that 2GB cards should have been at $99 and 4GB cards at $120-130.

This one is from 8th August, the day of RX 460 launch.

 

[frozentundra123456]

GTX 750ti vs R9 270/X is not the same as GTX 1050ti vs RX 470.

R9 270/X were 2 years older chips with a huge TDP difference vs GTX 750Ti (150/180W TDP vs 60W TDP), add better Video decoders for the GTX 750 and it was a no brainer for lots of people to go the GTX750ti route.
This time both AMD and NV chips are new (almost same features) and TDP difference is lower (RX 470 120W TDP vs GTX 1050Ti 75W TDP).

Only those with less than 250-300W PSUs will need to go for the 75W TDP GTX 1050Ti so again its not the same situation.
Also, lets wait and see how big performance difference RX 470 at DX-12 will have vs GTX 1050Ti.

What I think is funny is we've heard for months that the low end is worthless and AMD was silly for trying to sell there instead of going high end. Now that Nvidia finally has a low end part it's an important metric again.

No, what is bad is competing *only* at the low/mid range and trying to spin it as some kind of genius business decision while the real reason is that they simply did not have the resources to do anything else. Just look at the line up now. After the 1050/1050Ti launch, nVidia will have a very competitive product for every AMD model, *as well as* having two top end products and gap filling low end products for which AMD has no competition at all.

 

[AtenRa]

No, what is bad is competing *only* at the low/mid range and trying to spin it as some kind of genius business decision while the real reason is that they simply did not have the resources to do anything else. Just look at the line up now. After the 1050/1050Ti launch, nVidia will have a very competitive product for every AMD model, *as well as* having two top end products and gap filling low end products for which AMD has no competition at all.

Why is bad to only compete in the low/med segments ?? Yes AMD doesnt have the resources to also compete against GP102 as of today but NVIDIA doesnt have anything to compete against ZEN. AMD is not a GPU only company like NV, they have devoted a lot of their limited resources to the ZEN project and that took resources from the High-End GPU development. It was AMDs choice to go after low/med GPU and High-End CPU with ZEN now, we will have to wait and see if they chose wisely or not.

 

[tajoh111]

Sorry but RX 460 competition was the GTX 750Ti and not the GTX 950. You may had GTX 950 at $140 or lower After Rebates but that doesnt make it a direct competitor to the RX 460.
Also, nobody ever said that RX 460 had the best perf/$. And let me remind you what i have said about the RX 460



This one is from 8th August, the day of RX 460 launch.

Are you that naive to think the gtx 950 was not competition for the rx460 just because AMD didn't include it in their slide deck? The Gtx 950 was selling for 140 and 130 prior to any rebates. 160 was the launch price point and its street price by the time the rx460 came about was much lower.

The gtx 950 was selling at 120 with rebates and potentially lower.

http://slickdeals.net/f/8836311-evg...kr-for-99-99-ar-more-free-shipping-newegg-com

Like 100 dollars....and this was back in june, well before the rx460 came about.

 

[AtenRa]

1. Only US had GTX 950 at that low prices
2. That EVGA GTX 950 is 110W TDP
3. That EVGA is almost double the size of a 2GB RX 460
4. The GTX 950 doesnt have DP 1.4

vs

1. RX 460 2GB was cheaper or equal priced than GTX 950 2GB everywhere else in the world
2. RX 460 2GB was also found at 75W TDP (no 6-pin) (MSI, Gigabyte and XFX)
3. RX 460 2GB 75W TDP is a lot smaller in size (same as GTX 750Ti)
4. RX 460 has DP 1.4 and FreeSync (i dont know if it has better HEVC decoding as well)

RX 460 replaced R7 260/X which is in the GTX 750/Ti segment. The 2GB cards should have been launched the highest at $99 and 4GB for $20 more and not $110 and $145. No wonder why it didnt sell that much in the first 2 months.

Also, NV lowered the price of GTX 950 to compete against the RX 460 because they didnt have a direct competitor card (GTX 1050). This is what AMD will do now with the RX 460, this is going on and on for years but some how its bad only when AMD is doing it.

 

[tajoh111]

1. Only US had GTX 950 at that low prices
2. That EVGA GTX 950 is 110W TDP
3. That EVGA is almost double the size of a 2GB RX 460
4. The GTX 950 doesnt have DP 1.4

vs

1. RX 460 2GB was cheaper or equal priced than GTX 950 2GB everywhere else in the world
2. RX 460 2GB was also found at 75W TDP (no 6-pin) (MSI, Gigabyte and XFX)
3. RX 460 2GB 75W TDP is a lot smaller in size (same as GTX 750Ti)
4. RX 460 has DP 1.4 and FreeSync (i dont know if it has better HEVC decoding as well)

RX 460 replaced R7 260/X which is in the GTX 750/Ti segment. The 2GB cards should have been launched the highest at $99 and 4GB for $20 more and not $110 and $145. No wonder why it didnt sell that much in the first 2 months.

Also, NV lowered the price of GTX 950 to compete against the RX 460 because they didnt have a direct competitor card (GTX 1050). This is what AMD will do now with the RX 460, this is going on and on for years but some how its bad only when AMD is doing it.

Stop replying with easy to blow over strawman arguments.

The gtx had 75watt cards, along with OC models, much like the rx460. Mini version too like below which were cheaper(back in february).

http://slickdeals.net/f/8524419-msi-geforce-gtx-950-oc-2gb-gddr5-graphics-card-120-free-shipping

The gtx 950 was at that price before the rx460 launched, and everywhere else outside USA, the gtx 950 had already had a price cut due to it's age. Just because the USA does get prices better than everywhere else, doesn't mean deals can't be had in other countries. The fact is and you haven't refuted this, is the gtx 950 was competition for the rx460. Only someone who worked for AMD marketing, would deny this.

Also, the price of the gtx 950 pricing along with everything else, began to fall after the gtx 1080 launched along with the 1070. Not much to do with AMD.

The 1070 launch dropped the gtx 980 ti price down to 400 or less which dropped the gtx 980 to 300 and from here, everything dropped.

E.g 1070 price lowers gtx 980 ti price, which lowers gtx 980 price which lowers 970 price, which lowers 960 price which lower 950 price.

Nvidia's products lowered their own price, not AMD's.

 

[railven]

TIL: RX 460 forced NV to drop price on a 1.5 yr old product.
TILx2: NV product will force AMD to drop price on almost 2 month old product.

Yeah, someone here is the winner. Either way, AMD got enough wiggle room to just slash prices across the board. They got 50% more efficient products on the horizon! Do it AMD! Make Radeon's Great Again!

 

[happy medium]

TIL: RX 460 forced NV to drop price on a 1.5 yr old product.
TILx2: NV product will force AMD to drop price on almost 2 month old product.

Yeah, someone here is the winner. Either way, AMD got enough wiggle room to just slash prices across the board. They got 50% more efficient products on the horizon! Do it AMD! Make Radeon's Great Again!

If you think on the horizon is 6 months away................and for notebooks.

 

[railven]

If you think on the horizon is 6 months away................and for notebooks.

Future products potential or market has never stopped AMD from slashing prices. AMD will do as AMD does.

 

[happy medium]

TO answer the op's question........they will lower prices just to compete, and make little to no profit, as usual. The same thing they have been doing for the past 5 years.

 

[linkgoron]

TO answer the op's question........they will lower prices just to compete, and make little to no profit, as usual. The same thing they have been doing for the past 5 years.

Sadly, it's not like they have any other option (i.e., release better cards). The RX 460 is easily the most disappointing card in the Polaris lineup, and it was overpriced anyway since launch. A cut Polaris 11 placed under the 470...

 

[Azix]

TO answer the op's question........they will lower prices just to compete, and make little to no profit, as usual. The same thing they have been doing for the past 5 years.

lower price of what? if they did not lower the price for the 1060 3GB, i don't think anyone should expect a lower price for the 470 in response to the 1050ti. Its just going to be a matter of price ranges. Anyone with a suitable PSU looking for something in the 1050ti price range should consider the older AMD GPUs, look for deals on the 470, then decide. Dropping the price on the 470 can put pressure on the 1050ti, but its not really in competition with it. 1050ti is 380/380x level performance from what I see and the 470 is beating a 1060 6GB in battlefield 1 so its not like it looks bad right now.

the 460 maybe could use a price drop but that depends on how it does against the 1050 in newer games. Its a smaller chip than the 1050 chips so they could drop the price and make the same margins, depending on wafer prices etc.

releasing a full polaris 11 chip might be good too, but clearly they are putting those in something profitable. Its not a more expensive chip than the regular 460 and yields can't be worse than polaris 10. it not being used in PC space means its somewhere else. Unlikely they will release it for discrete graphics just yet.

 

[SolMiester]

Furthermore, 1050Ti's overall performance value is completely eroded by the fact that lower end GPUs benefit THE most from adaptive sync. If we add the price of RX 470/480 + 1080p FreeSync monitor against GTX1050Ti + GSync monitor, it's a complete blow out.

Forgetting about the rest of your wall of text usual gibberish, I wonder the point of the above remark?...Users who buy 460/470 cards are not going to be interested in free-sync monitors unless they already have one, besides which the sync range is far to high to be of any benefit to the low FPS on the smaller cards.

You continue to try justifying the purchase of AMD budget cards with the purchase of free-sync monitors with the card purchase. To be frank, if I had extra money for a monitor, I would be using it for a better card.

 

[Azix]

Forgetting about the rest of your wall of text usual gibberish, I wonder the point of the above remark?...Users who buy 460/470 cards are not going to be interested in free-sync monitors unless they already have one, besides which the sync range is far to high to be of any benefit to the low FPS on the smaller cards.

You continue to try justifying the purchase of AMD budget cards with the purchase of free-sync monitors with the card purchase. To be frank, if I had extra money for a monitor, I would be using it for a better card.

a new monitor might be part of the upgrade package. cheapest one I see is $130

 

[LTC8K6]

No they haven't which is also one of my points. They are comparing it to the dinosaur Non Ti GTX 650 and GTX 750Ti. It's not hard for nVIDIA to make the 1050Ti look good compared to those ancient offerings.

That's one of the big groups NV wants to sell 1050 cards to, though.

I think NV tends not to compare it's cards to the competition.

 

[LTC8K6]

What I think is funny is we've heard for months that the low end is worthless and AMD was silly for trying to sell there instead of going high end. Now that Nvidia finally has a low end part it's an important metric again.

My thinking is that AMD's APUs are meant to occupy the low end, somewhat hampering AMD low end vid card sales?
If I want a low end AMD card, I can buy an APU or a low end card.

If I want an NV low end card, I can buy an NV low end card.

You pretty much get an Intel low end card whether you want one or not. You have to make an effort to not get one.

 

[frozentundra123456]

My thinking is that AMD's APUs are meant to occupy the low end, somewhat hampering AMD low end vid card sales?
If I want a low end AMD card, I can buy an APU or a low end card.

If I want an NV low end card, I can buy an NV low end card.

You pretty much get an Intel low end card whether you want one or not. You have to make an effort to not get one.

Not really. The "low end" 460 is still well above any apu in performance and allows you to pick a better cpu and upgrade the gpu as well. So I dont really see APUs cutting into sales of the 460. The problem with the 460 is that it is simply too cut down to offer more than marginal 1080p gaming, and it is a terrible value proposition against the 470/480/1060, at least until the price drops to below a hundred dollars, which it appears to be doing.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Forgetting about the rest of your wall of text usual gibberish, I wonder the point of the above remark?...Users who buy 460/470 cards are not going to be interested in free-sync monitors unless they already have one, besides which the sync range is far to high to be of any benefit to the low FPS on the smaller cards.

You continue to try justifying the purchase of AMD budget cards with the purchase of free-sync monitors with the card purchase. To be frank, if I had extra money for a monitor, I would be using it for a better card.

Seems to be a lot of that going around lately. Many of the usual suspects are slipping in blurbs for freesync monitors, no matter how off topic.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Why is bad to only compete in the low/med segments ?? Yes AMD doesnt have the resources to also compete against GP102 as of today but NVIDIA doesnt have anything to compete against ZEN. AMD is not a GPU only company like NV, they have devoted a lot of their limited resources to the ZEN project and that took resources from the High-End GPU development. It was AMDs choice to go after low/med GPU and High-End CPU with ZEN now, we will have to wait and see if they chose wisely or not.

Well, I guess it is a great strategy if you dont want to sell in the segments with the most prestige and highest profits.

 

[Bacon1]

Seems to be a lot of that going around lately. Many of the usual suspects are slipping in blurbs for freesync monitors, no matter how off topic.

Probably because buying a freesync monitor is simple and will give you much better experience. You do realize that plenty of people are buying new systems without a monitor right?

besides which the sync range is far to high to be of any benefit to the low FPS on the smaller cards.

Thats just pure BS. LFC handles and frame duping if you need it and the 1080p 60hz monitors will have fine ranges. People aren't maxing settings on these cards and running them @ 20-30 fps avg. They are running medium settings @ closer to 60.

 

[AtenRa]

The gtx 950 was at that price before the rx460 launched, and everywhere else outside USA, the gtx 950 had already had a price cut due to it's age. Just because the USA does get prices better than everywhere else, doesn't mean deals can't be had in other countries.

Even today GTX 950 is more expensive in Europe than RX 460 2GB

http://geizhals.eu/?fs=rx+460+2gb&in=

http://geizhals.eu/?fs=gtx+950&in=

So again, you only had low priced After Rebate GTX 950 ONLY in the US, in the rest of the world the GTX 950 was and still is more expensive.

The fact is and you haven't refuted this, is the gtx 950 was competition for the rx460. Only someone who worked for AMD marketing, would deny this.

I could say the same thing for the NV marketing

Also, the price of the gtx 950 pricing along with everything else, began to fall after the gtx 1080 launched along with the 1070. Not much to do with AMD.

The 1070 launch dropped the gtx 980 ti price down to 400 or less which dropped the gtx 980 to 300 and from here, everything dropped.

E.g 1070 price lowers gtx 980 ti price, which lowers gtx 980 price which lowers 970 price, which lowers 960 price which lower 950 price.

Nvidia's products lowered their own price, not AMD's.

The point is that RX 460 competition is the GTX 750/Ti and not the more expensive GTX 950. In the US the situation was different in many cases where GTX 950 had a nice AR but thats not what happened in the rest of the world.

 

[AtenRa]

Well, I guess it is a great strategy if you dont want to sell in the segments with the most prestige and highest profits.

Selling a 160-200mm2 chip alone (CPU) at $300 will get you higher margins than selling a 300mm2 chip + PCB + Memory (GPU) at $370-450 (GTX 1070).

 

[whm1974]

Panic.


Trolling is not allowed
Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator

Sorry I didn't mean to troll. I was just making a joke.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Even today GTX 950 is more expensive in Europe than RX 460 2GB

http://geizhals.eu/?fs=rx+460+2gb&in=

http://geizhals.eu/?fs=gtx+950&in=

So again, you only had low priced After Rebate GTX 950 ONLY in the US, in the rest of the world the GTX 950 was and still is more expensive.




I could say the same thing for the NV marketing




The point is that RX 460 competition is the GTX 750/Ti and not the more expensive GTX 950. In the US the situation was different in many cases where GTX 950 had a nice AR but thats not what happened in the rest of the world.

Way to lower the bar. You better hope the 460 can beat a what, 2, maybe even 3 year old card. The real competition for the 460 will be the 1050/1050Ti.