What do you object to about Christianity?

[Nik]

We are responsible for own mistakes.

Then why does the bible talk about how kids are innocent and pure? Shouldn't Christ be casting them down and preaching at them too since the are covered under Adam's sin and because a sin is a sin is a sin?

Explain this whole age of accountability thing, too.

Also, you haven't shown any proof or evidence that anything you're babbling about is anything more than fairy tales. Still waiting for you on that one...



Edit: I guess I'll just skip ahead 90 minutes in the conversation and ask you why YOU believe. Why do you? What have you seen to make you believe? What have you heard to make you believe?

WHY do you believe?

Then, I'll skip forward another billion posts and draw the conclusion that you, just like every single other religious nutjob I've asked, cannot explain why they believe or don't believe without resorting to "well you can't prove he doesn't exist" and all of that nonsense.

/thread

now go outside and play; stop trolling

 

[Jeff7]

Then why did Jesus die?

And why did other humans suffer for the sins of Adam and Eve? (Yes, this was already asked, but, well, here it is again.)
(And why'd God inflict suffering upon snakes? Satan takes your class' form, and so all of your kind gets punished?)

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Then why did Jesus die?

It's all in the New Testament. Every church I've ever been to will even give you one for free.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Uhh death by asphyxiation only takes a few minutes. You either can breath or cannot. It's like anyone hanging on a cross is undergoing extreme physical exercise that requires more oxygen than normal either. You are literally hanging around. Also, your diaphragm is stretchable. Without that we wouldn't be able to breath at all. I don't think I need to call in Jamie and Adam to declare this myth busted.

It's pretty simple. A crucified person holds his torso upright until his strength gives out or he starts to fall asleep, then leans forward and begins to asphyxiate. He jerks back upright for some gasping breaths, then repeats this process until he's too weak to raise himself up and finally dies.

 

[sandorski]

It's all in the New Testament. Every church I've ever been to will even give you one for free.

lol, Fail. I have a couple already, but thanks. Just answer the question. If we are Responsible for our own mistakes, why did Jesus die?

 

[Nik]

And why did other humans suffer for the sins of Adam and Eve? (Yes, this was already asked, but, well, here it is again.)
(And why'd God inflict suffering upon snakes? Satan takes your class' form, and so all of your kind gets punished?)

Let's say you're God...

and I'm not sayin you aren't, Jeff, you're pretty cool, but just roll with me on this one

Let's say you're God. Sitting there with nothing to do but bask in your own awesomeness for all eternity, no beginning, no end, outside of space and time, all that jazz. Let's say you get REALLY bored one day and think to yourself "man, I'm really bored! What ever shall a supreme being do, being as though I'm the only thing that exists in any form in any way?"

Then it hits you like a ton of uncreated bricks!

"I'll CREATE something!" :awe: and you get all excited dreaming up the possibilities.

"What should I create? ...oh, I know, little clones of myself! Oh wait, I can't have anyone as cool as me, so we'll make them uh... smaller Oh, and uglier too. OH! And they can't fly or do anything cool.

Oh, and I'll give them an eternal soul, create them as fallible beings with the capacity to sin, then I'll create sin, then I'll put them in a big garden WITH sin but not tell them what it is or how to avoid it or WHY to avoid it or WHY it's dangerous, then I'll give them an UNREASONABLY STRONG sense of curiosity and rebellious spirit so that they'll BE FORCED to eat from the tree I told them not to eat from!! HAAAAAHAHAHAHA BRILLIANT. Oh, what if they choose to live the life I wanted them to live and go explore and be fruitful and multiply? Well, I'll just have to put angels at the gates to the garden so they can't leave until they sin.

--OH THAT'S RIGHT, I knew I forgot something. Be right back while I create angels... perfect beings with no soul but cannot sin. POOF, okay that's done. Now, where was I? Oh, right, back to fucking over my new creation that I'll call "man." Now, when they're in this prison with all this great stuff and naive and don't know what sin is, I'll just sit back and let them sin even though I have the power to stop them and therefore systematically wipe out all negative anything and everything for all of my creation's existence... but where's the fun in that?"


...

The bible is so fucking ludicrous I'm surprised it took me as long as it did to break out of that stupid brainwashed cult.

 

[HumblePie]

It's pretty simple. A crucified person holds his torso upright until his strength gives out or he starts to fall asleep, then leans forward and begins to asphyxiate. He jerks back upright for some gasping breaths, then repeats this process until he's too weak to raise himself up and finally dies.

Naw, people do this stuff for S&M all the time. Doesn't happen that way. Seriously. I know people that have gone for records for it. Your arm, back, and chest muscles are not in anyway connected to your diaphragm. To think otherwise is plain silly.

 

[Nik]

It's all in the New Testament. Every church I've ever been to will even give you one for free.

The only thing they'll give you is a fairy tale that's full of holes that leads to other questions that the cult can't answer that leads to still more questions the cult can't answer without contradicting their previous half-answers, etc.

 

[Fayd]

Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism, dude, i mean, at least it's an ethos.

 

[Nik]

Naw, people do this stuff for S&M all the time. Doesn't happen that way. Seriously. I know people that have gone for records for it. Your arm, back, and chest muscles are not in anyway connected to your diaphragm. To think otherwise is plain silly.

Your diaphragm is connected to your rib cage, sir. Death on the cross was a very slow, agonizing, bitter fight to the end when you simply didn't have the strength to push yourself up to take a breath. Additionally, the lashes received on the back weren't just the first part of his beating.

In those times, 40 lashes meant you were legally declared dead by the Romans. If someone lived through 40 lashes, the guards would simply dispatch the victim. Christ is supposed to have received 39 lashes to avoid the legal red tape that would have barred them from crucification.

Whips weren't neatly woven leather, either. They had bits of rock and bone woven into them. They were meant to strip flesh from muscle and then muscle from bone. That's why 40 lashes was considered lethal.

On top of all that, with shoulders and back thoroughly ravaged, if not de-fleshed in large portions, being up on an unfinished tree trunk having to push your body up to breathe and then sliding back down to rest your legs so you can do it again in a few seconds, you get slivers and bark into the wounds, aggravating intensely with every movement, both up and down. Sepsis starts to set in, but you usually don't have time for those poisons to kill you.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

And why did other humans suffer for the sins of Adam and Eve? (Yes, this was already asked, but, well, here it is again.)
(And why'd God inflict suffering upon snakes? Satan takes your class' form, and so all of your kind gets punished?)

Okay, we know that Adam and Eve lived in a perfect environment until they brought sin and death into the world by disobeying God. Is it fair that we are suffering the effects of their actions? Good question.

 

[HumblePie]

Your diaphragm is connected to your rib cage, sir. Death on the cross was a very slow, agonizing, bitter fight to the end when you simply didn't have the strength to push yourself up to take a breath.

Yah, and your arms are not. Do I need to show you a diagram on human anatomy? Do you have a clue of how the human shoulder socket even works? Wow, I can't believe people actually even believe this! There is no way to pull on the human arm that would prevent the diaphragm from expanding. Regardless of how much weight is upon your arms.

You do realize people on the RACK in medieval times would be pulled in the same way with much greater force upon both ankles and shoulders than just your own body weight for hours at a time right? Damn if you believe that someone can die from asphyxiation from hanging a cross you are damn stupid.

 

[sandorski]

...

The bible is so fucking ludicrous I'm surprised it took me as long as it did to break out of that stupid brainwashed cult.

For me it was the Surrendering part. Once you have chosen to stop considering your own Thoughts as worthy and have openly embraced whatever the Bible says as the Only Truth. Then your hooked in for the duration until one day you just say, "Wait a minute."

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Yah, and your arms are not. Do I need to show you a diagram on human anatomy? Do you have a clue of how the human shoulder socket even works? Wow, I can't believe people actually even believe this! There is no way to pull on the human arm that would prevent the diaphragm from expanding. Regardless of how much weight is upon your arms.

You do realize people on the RACK in medieval times would be pulled in the same way with much greater force upon both ankles and shoulders than just your own body weight for hours at a time right? Damn if you believe that someone can die from asphyxiation from hanging a cross you are damn stupid.

The medical evidence has been studied extensively.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/119

 

[Nik]

Yah, and your arms are not. Do I need to show you a diagram on human anatomy? Do you have a clue of how the human shoulder socket even works? Wow, I can't believe people actually even believe this! There is no way to pull on the human arm that would prevent the diaphragm from expanding. Regardless of how much weight is upon your arms.

You do realize people on the RACK in medieval times would be pulled in the same way with much greater force upon both ankles and shoulders than just your own body weight for hours at a time right? Damn if you believe that someone can die from asphyxiation from hanging a cross you are damn stupid.

You're focusing too much on the shoulder, which it doesn't have much to do with. The shoulder isn't what causes the suffocation so I'm not surprised you're trying to refute it because you don't understand.

That's fine, though. Even folks who don't believe the Bible know and understand how crucification works. It's documented. Have fun googling it.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Yah, and your arms are not. Do I need to show you a diagram on human anatomy? Do you have a clue of how the human shoulder socket even works? Wow, I can't believe people actually even believe this! There is no way to pull on the human arm that would prevent the diaphragm from expanding. Regardless of how much weight is upon your arms.

You do realize people on the RACK in medieval times would be pulled in the same way with much greater force upon both ankles and shoulders than just your own body weight for hours at a time right? Damn if you believe that someone can die from asphyxiation from hanging a cross you are damn stupid.

Perhaps you're right. Blood loss from scourging, sepsis, or dehydration might be more likely as a cause of death than asphyxiation.

 

[HumblePie]

The medical evidence has been studied extensively.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/119

LOL just stop it, please stop it with the Christian fundy websites that purport to be real science sites. Seriously stop it.

 

[Nik]

The medical evidence has been studied extensively.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/119

If you're going to link something to back up your claims, it would be nice if it weren't an agenda-driving religious website. People see those kinds of sites the same way they see your opinion: brainwashed, believe anything that will support what you want to support kinda thing.

Find an unbias source to cite.

 

[Nik]

LOL just stop it, please stop it with the Christian fundy websites that purport to be real science sites. Seriously stop it.

He's right on this one. You are not.

Your acting like a child isn't helping the conversation either.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

For me it was the Surrendering part. Once you have chosen to stop considering your own Thoughts as worthy and have openly embraced whatever the Bible says as the Only Truth. Then your hooked in for the duration until one day you just say, "Wait a minute."

I'm not sure what organization you were associated with, but I've never been to a church that discourages you from thinking.

 

[HumblePie]

Perhaps you're right. Blood loss from scourging, sepsis, or dehydration might be more likely as a cause of death than asphyxiation.

There is no perhaps. Look at a damn anatomy diagram of the human shoulder and see for yourself. Your upper arm bone is connected by a bunch of tendons to your scapula, which in turn is connected by tendons to your CLAVICLE. Not your rib cage. Your clavicle is a fixed bone. Your arms basically hang off your neck, not your rib cage.

 

[Nik]

Perhaps you're right. Blood loss from scourging, sepsis, or dehydration might be more likely as a cause of death than asphyxiation.

Christ didn't dehydrate; they kept him drinking as they did everyone on the crosses with a wet sponge on the end of a spear.

 

[Nik]

I'm not sure what organization you were associated with, but I've never been to a church that discourages you from thinking.

HAHA. Now I know you're full of shit. The entire premise of the Church is to go once a week to get re-brainwashed to think how they want you to think, not think for yourself.

Sure, no church discourages you from thinking in and of itself, but they tell you what to think, how to think, and when to think it.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

LOL just stop it, please stop it with the Christian fundy websites that purport to be real science sites. Seriously stop it.

Because of the scientific nature of the material, readers may wish to know something concerning the educational backgrounds out of which the two authors are writing. Dr. Harrub earned his doctorate in neurobiology and anatomy at the Health Sciences Center of the College of Medicine, University of Tennessee. Dr. Thompson earned his doctorate in microbiology at Texas A&M University, where he also served for a number of years as a professor in the Department of Anatomy and Public Health in the College of Veterinary Medicine, and as Director of the College’s Cooperative Education Program in Biomedical Science.]

I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. Just thought that you might want to read what experts have written on the topic.

 

[Nik]

There is no perhaps. Look at a damn anatomy diagram of the human shoulder and see for yourself. Your upper arm bone is connected by a bunch of tendons to your scapula, which in turn is connected by tendons to your CLAVICLE. Not your rib cage. Your clavicle is a fixed bone. Your arms basically hang off your neck, not your rib cage.

You're barking up the wrong tree. Stop obsessing over the goddamn shoulder as if it matters.