what do you guys think of the Hyundai XG300?

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NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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47
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<< No it's not. Period thats it! Interior Volume is not the 1 standard by which you go by.

It's competiton as put forth by not only every major authority I have ever seen but by Hyundai themselves when you get their Brochure which I have right here.. are cars like the Malibu, Saturn LS, Altima etc...
>>



Camry CE/Sonota

Length
188.5/185.4

Weight
3042/3069

Width
71.6/70.1

Wheelbase
105.2/106.3

Interior Volume
96.9/100

Cargo Capacity
14.1/13.1

Price-wise, feature-wise, size-wise, and in capacity, they ARE competitors. PERIOD.

And there is price overlap with the Sonata b/c it goes up to $18,324



<< You started with the posting of private Msgs not I. >>


I posted my thread response in a PM to you, not yours. I haven't posted any of your PM's.
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
2,427
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It is NOT it's competiton!! and unlike you I do not have to go cut and paste to tell you this... There is overlap in EVERY category of car make, that does not make them their competition. Cars are designed to compete agaisnt &quot;market segments&quot; I do this kinda stuff for a living!!

And if you think that it's overlap should be justification b/c it can go up to 18K... oh yea well then that makes LOTSSSSSSS of sense.. seeing as the Camry goes up to almost 10 Thousand Dollars more to 27,425 dollars!!!!!

 

mHubs

Senior member
Oct 28, 2000
447
0
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i gotta go with NSF4, he knows his sh*t..
this wyst dude, is gettin handed a part of his body, i believe its his ass
:D
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
2,427
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Well, give him time.. he is busy gathering the facts he &quot;knows&quot; from some website right now. ;)

Camry and Sonata same class... LOLOL ROFL I think right there he lost some credibility. However, always nice to see differing opinions, no matter how out far some wish to stretch them.

 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< It is NOT it's competiton!! and unlike you I do not have to go cut and paste to tell you this... There is overlap in EVERY category of car make, that does not make them their competition. Cars are designed to compete agaisnt &quot;market segments&quot; I do this kinda stuff for a living!!

And if you think that it's overlap should be justification b/c it can go up to 18K... oh yea well then that makes LOTSSSSSSS of sense.. seeing as the Camry goes up to almost 10 Thousand Dollars more to 27,425 dollars!!!!!
>>


And another thing. A Sonata optioned like the base CE runs $17,494
Well DUH a Camry goes up close to, but a Camry CE is close in price and size.


<< Camry and Sonata same class... LOLOL ROFL I think right there he lost some credibility. However, always nice to see differing opinions, no matter how out far some wish to stretch them. >>


A Camry CE is as low as you can go with Camry on the Trim Level side. But it is common knowledge that low-end models of cars compete with top of the line models of smaller sized cars.

i.e. a Fully optioned Civic vs a base Accord.

In the case of the Camry and the Sonota, they are the same size.
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
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Hmmm, i don't see the Camry listed there. Edmunds is not really the best site in the world either mind you, and they are &quot;reaching&quot; by including the DX in there as it is. However, I think the point was made nicely... they metioned most of the cars both I and HYUNDAI the maker of the car, say in their brochure who they are targeting the Sonata at. :)


Keep smiling!!

*Edit* What they also do not metion is that these are not &quot;real world&quot; prices. They are MSRP, and as I am sure most know.. No hyundai dealer sells anywhere near MSRP. We bought our Elantra for 2K under MSRP.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
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<< Link to Sonata's Competitor set by Edmunds




Link to Toyota CE's Competitor set by Edmunds


That was cheapest VS the cheapest.. and the cheapest Toyota doesn't fit in the Cheapest Sonata Category.. however.. the upgraded Sonata does fit the &quot;Cheapest&quot; Toyota CE category..


Also note. how cheapest Sonta was compared to the Accord DX ... when Cheapest Camry was compared to the LX
>>


But it does prove the point that the two are shopped against each other as I was saying (from the second link).
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< they metioned most of the cars both I and HYUNDAI the maker of the car, say in their brochure who they are targeting the Sonata at. >>


It doesn't matter what the manufacturer is targeting at...it matters at what the consumers are buying and shopping against. And the second link point that out with the Camry and Sonota being listed as competitors.
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
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Now you are going overboard. It matters what the COMPANY targets a product at, they are the ones who design it. Just because you wish to try and put up a totally stripped down Toyota, agaisnt the most decked out loaded Sonata and then claim they are in the same market segment is all your own fabrication.

And again, just try and get a Camry at that price, whereas you will have no trouble at all finding the Sonata loaded and out the door for 16K :)

*Edit* NFS4 used Bold, that must mean he is right!, Ok, you're right
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< Now you are going overboard. It matters what the COMPANY targets a product at, they are the ones who design it. Just because you wish to try and put up a totally stripped down Toyota, agaisnt the most decked out loaded Sonata and then claim they are in the same market segment is all your own fabrication.

And again, just try and get a Camry at that price, whereas you will have no trouble at all finding the Sonata loaded and out the door for 16K :)
>>


What I'm saying is that the &quot;Company&quot; can aim at whoever they want to, but it's the customer that makes the FINAL decision. Cadillac can AIM to take on BMW and Mercedes at a lower price point, but they end up competing with Lincolns.

When people are shopping around for Camry CE's, they're looking at those Sonatas and their low prices. It's what the PEOPLE do, not the company. And when it comes down to it, more people choose stripped (or near stripper) Camry's over loaded Sonatas (or even stripper Sonotas) no matter what the price. I also see more base CE and LE Camrys than loaded XLE models.
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
2,427
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WRONG. For Toyota, and Honda do not ship over very many stripped down versions of their cars. My cousin owns a Nissan Dealership in CT. I sold cars there for him one summer, we would get a token few cars that would come in with few options.

And again, I state.. go out.. and good luck finding a Toyota or Honda, at those prices. Please.. do... While bearing in mind that no Hyundai dealership sells their cars at MSRP.

Heck Honda is so overboard with prices, when we bought our CRXsi we had to not only pay full MSRP but a dealer fee on top of it. All the dealers on Long Island were the same way. We just found one that woudl take only 250.00 for their fee, and took the car.

Now, please consider what I sent to you in private :)
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< WRONG. For Toyota, and Honda do not ship over very many stripped down versions of their cars. My cousin owns a Nissan Dealership in CT. I sold cars there for him one summer, we would get a token few cars that would come in with few options. >>


CT isn't a big place ;) Here in NC, base CE and LE models rule the roost (cloth, AM/FM cassette, plastic wheel covers, 4-cylinder) ;) XLE's are found, but not very often around here.

And most Camrys are made here in the US, not shipped over.
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
2,427
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We both agreed this is our last posts.. so enjoy them folks... LOL


Then I give you Texas too. For we go out looking at cars all the time, and bikes as well. We were shopping for another new car just 2 months ago (an SUV dont hurt me. or a larger sedan.) and we looked at many, the two it was coming down to were the Mazda Tribute, and the Hyundai Santa Fe. (SUV wise) and the Altima and Sonata (sedan wise) Then I found out b/c of the local Hyundai performance place about the new Sonata, and our plans are on hold till next year, hell even the Santa Fe is getting a few more goodies...

Anyway, point is.. Accords, and Camrys were NOT to be found anywhere near the price of the Sonata, heck they didnt even come very close to the Altima, which is even more money.

In summation, (buttons jacket nfs4 will get it) I contend that not only are they hard to find, but that comparing a stripper to a Fully loaded car, is not a very fair comparo. Not to metion, that you don't pay MSRP at a Hyundai dealership, thus making the comparo, even more ludicrious.

:)

Smile


 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
79,082
456
136
And most Camrys are made here in the US, not shipped over.

I didn't have enough patience to read the entire frickin' thread but this is true ... Most Toyota Camry's are manufactured in hicktown err Georgetown, KY.
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
2,427
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Gee thanx ROSSSSSSS lol... A boo boo on my part, I am aware where they are made, I beg forgiveness, yet it does not change the point.


I am quite fond of the (buttons jacket) part myself :)
 

SSP

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
17,727
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Hyundais personally to me looks pretty ugly. THey are so bubbly and round, and looks like a plastic body.

EDIT - What a rip! Cant they make their own design? ;)
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< We both agreed this is our last posts.. so enjoy them folks... LOL >>


Which? This one or that one? Since my last post wasn't a summary like yours, this is my last:D


<< Then I give you Texas too. For we go out looking at cars all the time, and bikes as well. We were shopping for another new car just 2 months ago (an SUV dont hurt me. or a larger sedan.) and we looked at many, the two it was coming down to were the Mazda Tribute, and the Hyundai Santa Fe. (SUV wise) and the Altima and Sonata (sedan wise) Then I found out b/c of the local Hyundai performance place about the new Sonata, and our plans are on hold till next year, hell even the Santa Fe is getting a few more goodies...

Anyway, point is.. Accords, and Camrys were NOT to be found anywhere near the price of the Sonata, heck they didnt even come very close to the Altima, which is even more money.

In summation, (buttons jacket nfs4 will get it) I contend that not only are they hard to find, but that comparing a stripper to a Fully loaded car, is not a very fair comparo. Not to metion, that you don't pay MSRP at a Hyundai dealership, thus making the comparo, even more ludicrious.
>>


LOL @ the buttons :) Base Camry's and Accords are NOT hard to find. My old roommate has a Camry same vintage as mine. It's an LE model. The only thing it has is AC, Auto, &amp; AM/FM cassette.

While it may not &quot;seem&quot; fair to YOU, people do cross shop these vehicles. You better believe that someone looking at a CE or LE level Camry is gonna be taking a hard look at a Sonata GLS near the same price point. No matter what the &quot;company&quot; thinks, the consumer makes the final decision. Afterall, they are the same size and offer equal levels of cargo capacity and legroom/etc. The Camry XLE is more for the XG300 as far as features.

It's the same way you cross shopped the Tribute and the Santa Fe even though the Tribute is a more expensive model. A top of the line Santa Fe's MSRP is at $21,999 (you say Hyundai knocks off $2,000 or around that, maybe more for the Sante Fe) so let's say $19,999 FULLY LOADED with a V6. The base level Tribute is plugging $18,910 with a 4-banger, the mid-level Tribute has an MSRP of $22,425 while the top of the line EX model comes in at $23,430. I still see you cross shopping though even given the price difference ;) If price/equipment was such a big factor as you make it out to be, the Tribute should have been way out of the picture by now. But no, you still considered it.

But the fact of the matter is, most people end up choosing the aforementioned model Camrys over the Sonata. People are trained in the Toyota and Honda fashion (#1 and #2). Hyundai's 10-year powertrain and 5-year B-t-B warranties are trying to sway people the other way, but I don't think that it will work. People are willing to pay the extra money for Camry and Accord. And I'll betcha that either the Escape or Tribute by themselves will far outsell the Santa Fe even given the price difference.
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
2,427
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Oh now NFS4... we were supposed to stop... my last after last was to Ross lol...

Now, (doing the button again) You again, and this time I can attest with complete conviction are wrong on the Santa Fe and Tribute. ( and on 2 points)

1. They are priced the same, we shopped and shopped. We have 3 Hyundai dealers and 3 Mazda dealers.. the Santa Fe was 22,415 and the Tribute was 23,250.

2. The Santa Fe is out selling the tribute ;)

Which leads me to this.. I think Hyundai is over reaching a bit right now, see the Santa Fe, and EVERY model with the exception of the Sonata has been breaking records left and right for them, and they are not budging at all on the Santa Fe's price. Some are even gouging. This is also due to the fact that Hyundai did not supply as many to some dealers as others. It was impossible to find the nordic white one in our entire area.

I again must empahasize placing a stripper Camry against a Loaded to the gills Sonata is not a fair test of market postioning. (If I were wrong on this I don't think I would have gotten my degree in Marketing, though the library my dad gave the school might have helped.)

In summation, I present to you fine folk that my esteemd, and worthy adversaries position, is that it is ok in order to make the argument &quot;fit&quot; how he needs it. That not only can you find these magical cheap Camry's in abundance, but that taking a line, well out of where it was intended to be positioned, and stripping it down to it's basic frame, then going to xyz company, and taking a fully loaded version of one of their cars, and make the claim...&quot;see, they are in the same category&quot;

I think Hyundai appreciates the high regard you hold their Sonata in NFS4, that you place it, in the Camry's league.

Thank you citizens..

:)
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
79,082
456
136
That's f'ed up if the Hyundai Santa Fe really is outselling the Mazda Tribute.
 

Aenygma

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2001
2,427
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Ross.. stop posting here.. (this is not a futher reply on the previous subject.)


Yes, it is quite true. It may end up in the long run that the Tribute will come out on top sales wise. I mean they are producing many more of them, than Hyundai is of the Santa Fe. However, word has certainly gotten around about how bad they are.. ( ppl if you own this plese dont yell at me ) It has already had 3 recalls, and things such has interior fit and finish and quality of materials used as come under criticism by many in the automotive press.

*Edit. un-refutable un-refutable un-refutable (inside joke)*

 

WetWilly

Golden Member
Oct 13, 1999
1,126
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This discussion really hinges on the peculiarities of the particular car market you're in. I'm not a Hyundai fanatic, but here's a couple of points:

1) Pretty much everywhere I've looked, the Sonata is compared to the Camry and Accord. Typical dealer ad - &quot;Comparable room and features for thousands le$$ than Camry and Accord&quot;

2) I'd ignore comparing trim level designations - for example, a &quot;base&quot; Sonata comes with power windows/locks/mirrors, cruise, A/C, and front/side airbags. If you're looking at Camrys that level of equipment is standard on an LE (well, the side airbags are a $200 option on an LE) or costs about $1100 as options on a CE. In fact, the option list for a Sonata is rather short, comprised mostly of a moonroof and trim items.

3) Sonatas in my car market (Florida) have large price advantages over competitors. 5-speed Sonatas are regularly available for less than $14,000; comparable Camry CEs and Accord DXs with comparable equipment run at least $2,000 more; for Camry LEs and Accord LXs, the difference is closer to $3,000.

4) For Elantras, the price advantage is comparable. A &quot;base&quot; Elantra GLS comes with power windows/locks/mirrors, A/C, and front/side airbags. Only options are trim accessories, and a cruise control/keyless entry/radio package. Base Elantras are available for less than $11,000. A comparable Civic (LX) is about $3,000 more. Same or more for a Corolla LE optioned out comparably.

5) You're more likely to get a better deal at a Hyundai dealer than a Toyota or Honda dealer. Then again Florida is served by a Toyota distributor that's known for its excessive additional charges and been sued several times.

6) I wouldn't judge Hyundai by their older cars - much like I wouldn't objectively judge a Ford Focus based on what Ford did with the Pinto. Hyundai has definitely improved. In fact, I haven't seen a bad review of the Elantra yet. Even Consumer Reports, who hasn't been particularly keen on Hyundais rated the Elantra pretty highly.

7) As for looks, I personally prefer the Sonata's &quot;different&quot; rounded look from the overly-angular Camry. I think Toyota went too far in trying to differentiate the current generation Camry from the Lexus ES300. I kind of expected it when I saw a previous gen Camry XLE with the two-tone paint package that looked an awful lot like an ES300. Then again, Toyota dealers here charge almost as much for a Camry XLE as an ES300.

8) Putting the XG300 into perspective, it's a slightly bigger, fully-loaded Sonata with a larger engine, and it's street priced as such. The XG300 is to the Sonata what the Avalon is to the Camry. Definitely less expensive than a Camry XLE here.

9) While people will gravitate to Honda and Toyota, it's sometimes unfortunate that they don't shop. That automatic gravitation causes pricing that's sometimes really whacked. For example, I found that loaded Corollas cost almost as much as comparably equipped Camry CEs just because there are lots of people out there that have to have a Corolla and nothing else. Saw several of them at a dealership and boy, did they ever get screwed over.

Is the Hyundai price differential significant? Depends. If it didn't exist, I'd expect Hyundai sales would hover around zero. I personally found Hyundais a little &quot;plastic-ier&quot; than the competition. If I was going to keep the car for 5 years, I'd seriously consider the Hyundai because of the warranty (10/100,000 powertrain, 5/60,000 bumper-to-bumper, 5 yr roadside assistance) and the fact that depreciation would be a little less of an issue. Less than 5 years, and I doubt it because of the depreciation hit. Then again, if you're paying cash and you invest the $2-3,000 saved for five years I'd guess you'd more than have the depreciation covered.