What Daesh (ISIL/ISIS/IS) Really Wants (source: The Atlantic)

[blastingcap]

What is it I wonder, that drives you to oppose the obvious solution to ISIS?

If it's so called empathy, how accurate is that really, when you use it to allow such evil to exist? It will cost lives to right this wrong, but doing so would be a kindness to the world. To all their future victims that they will capture and torture. We can prevent that.

Salt the earth with the blood of ISIS and save your fellow man from the horrors of a future where those !@#$ still hold territory. We don't even have to enter their cities, just blockade them and let the locals do the rest.

If the militia cannot move its forces, it cannot function. We would kill many, but they are our enemy. The enemy of all mankind. The world needs to step up and see this done.
There is DEFINITELY a military solution here.

The future belongs to those who are willing to act. Do not let it be them.

I don't think many want to see civilians get hurt, but Western intervention is seen as illegitimate and serves as propaganda to garner new recruits.

Why don't you ask why the Arab neighbors and Turkey aren't doing more?

Imho the West has done its part by blunting the assault on Erbil, Mosul Dam, Kobane, Amerli, and elsewhere. We're still there to bomb oil fields if they get captured and to protect our only real ally left in that part of the world (Kurds).

Other than doing that, we should butt the hell out. And that includes UN aid because that's going straight to Daesh, not civilians. http://english.alarabiya.net/en/per...st-ISIS-rebranding-U-N-humanitarian-aid-.html

Daesh will collapse eventually; it's the beginning of the end for them. In fact, defeating Daesh is the easy part, as difficult as that may be to believe.

The REAL hard part? Figuring out what to do if anything about the Syrian Civil War. SAA vs FSA vs JAN vs YPG/YPJ. Iran and Russia are propping up the SAA and presumably aid to the other groups has diminished so if things continue as they have been, the SAA may eventually win. Is that desirable? If not, then do we arm 5000 Syrians/year, after kicking out all the foreigners if that's even possible? Enforce a no fly zone per Turkey's request that would betray Rojava? Get Israel to shoot down SAA air force to make it a more even fight? Something else?

 

[michal1980]

"Twenty-eight percent of Americans believe the Bible is the actual word of God and that it should be taken literally."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170834/three-four-bible-word-god.aspx

oh look the resident ISIS supporert crawls out of its hole.

 

[ivwshane]

What is it I wonder, that drives you to oppose the obvious solution to ISIS?

If it's so called empathy, how accurate is that really, when you use it to allow such evil to exist? It will cost lives to right this wrong, but doing so would be a kindness to the world. To all their future victims that they will capture and torture. We can prevent that.

Salt the earth with the blood of ISIS and save your fellow man from the horrors of a future where those !@#$ still hold territory. We don't even have to enter their cities, just blockade them and let the locals do the rest.

If the militia cannot move its forces, it cannot function. We would kill many, but they are our enemy. The enemy of all mankind. The world needs to step up and see this done.
There is DEFINITELY a military solution here.

The future belongs to those who are willing to act. Do not let it be them.

Did you read the article? Your proposal would put you on ISIS's man of the year poster! They would love nothing more than for the US to do what you want, it would be, in their minds, the prophecy coming true. Why would I help legitimize their cause?

 

[Victorian Gray]

oh look the resident ISIS supporert crawls out of its hole.

That seems to be the favorite catch phrase for several of the bigots here. "You don't agree with me, then you are a supporter of (insert name of 'evil' organization/person)."

It's exceedingly dumb.

 

[nickqt]

Did you read the article? Your proposal would put you on ISIS's man of the year poster! They would love nothing more than for the US to do what you want, it would be, in their minds, the prophecy coming true. Why would I help legitimize their cause?

Advertising works exceptionally well, which is why many businesses spend more money on advertising than anything else.

Many people don't believe that advertising works, though. They think that they are immune from it. As they go out and purchase name brand products because they know those name brands are inherently better than other brands.

ISIS is advertising their brutality for two reasons.

1. To show that they are a true Caliphate taking the Quran literally.
2. To get the west to legitimize them as an Islamic Caliphate so that the West, aka Rome, comes knocking on their door to bring about the apocalypse. And then something something defeat at Dabiq, something something Jesus comes down to smite a bunch of tanks and attack aircraft. Mythology is silly. Anyway...

At this point, the US and other western nations should provide intelligence and weapons to the less-insane scumbags to defend their own borders against ISIS. All the while allowing ISIS to try and provide the services it is required to provide to be considered a true Caliphate.

As others have posited, ISIS is begging for the west to come in and fight them, because it's a lot easier to recruit when you're getting free advertising, er, I mean media coverage. But, let them stagnate trying to control the land they have now with very few resources, and they'll start tearing themselves apart as some groups starts declaring other groups as apostates. This has happened before, and is one of the features, not bugs, of fundamentalist religion. Ultimately, it's like one guy against the world as the one true believer.

Advertising works.

If we really wanted to troll the shit out of them, we'd be constantly trying to "make friends" with them through usual political means and corruption of their hierarchy. If politics/wealth is akin to worshiping a false god, we should be focusing on screwing with their leadership. Yes, they're terrible, but they're also going to end up destroying themselves. Let's not go drawing that process out.

 

[Omar F1]

I think in some ways, or to some extent, these articles discussing ISIS and it's objective (religious war) are aimed at the Obama admin who, even as I type this, are trying to claim ISIS is non-religious or non-Islamic.

Fern

Perhaps Obama does know the truth behind ISIS, wouldn't you give it a 1% chance? or rather prefer to completely ignore the accusations of most Arab's population about Daesh existence.

If there is a better way to refute an article than to stop reading it, I don't know what it is.

It's more of the same to continue the brainwash process against Muslims. I would ignore it exactly as I did ignore the alleged khalifa speech, back in June 2014.


For the writer to say that those criminals are following Islam/prophet guide is a huge insult to us, as we have the proof from Quran, Hadith and the prophet's history against them and their believes.

I wonder, have you guys ever heard about one Hadith (prophet say) that state "For whom would kill a Muaa'hid (non-Muslim while being safely staying among them), he wouldn't smell the heaven, even it could be smelled from a 40-years walking distance", Narrated by Bukhari.
(من قتل نفسا معاهدا لم يرح رائحة الجنة, وإن ريحها ليوجد من مسيرة أربعين عام&#1575.

 

[realibrad]

Perhaps Obama does know the truth behind ISIS, wouldn't you give it a 1% chance? or rather prefer to completely ignore the accusations of most Arab's population about Daesh existence.



It's more of the same to continue the brainwash process against Muslims. I would ignore it exactly as I did ignore the alleged khalifa speech, back in June 2014.


For the writer to say that those criminals are following Islam/prophet guide is a huge insult to us, as we have the proof from Quran, Hadith and the prophet's history against them and their believes.

I wonder, have you guys ever heard about one Hadith (prophet say) that state "For whom would kill a Muaa'hid (non-Muslim while being safely staying among them), he wouldn't smell the heaven, even it could be smelled from a 40-years walking distance", Narrated by Bukhari.
(من قتل نفسا معاهدا لم يرح رائحة الجنة, وإن ريحها ليوجد من مسيرة أربعين عام&#1575.

That is only true, if those among you have not transgressed upon you. If the unbelievers have wronged or oppressed you, then you simply need 9:123

O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.

Islam like most religions is filled with contradictions. It allows you to take any opinion on any topic. Islam says to defend yourself, but stop when the attackers stop. It also says to wipe out those nonbelievers who have wronged you and the religion.

 

[michal1980]

That seems to be the favorite catch phrase for several of the bigots here. "You don't agree with me, then you are a supporter of (insert name of 'evil' organization/person)."

It's exceedingly dumb.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

[MongGrel]

If Daesh is awaiting the "Army of Rome" to start the Apocalypse, I think they may be disappointed.

*Mixes up poison kool-aid*

I'm still for BUFFS and carpet bombing myself, but it appears they even have the Egyptians bombing the piss out of them too now.

And after the others that were burned today, they are just digging a deeper hole.

*measures how long that rope is getting*

 

[Nebor]

We were repeatedly told that they were not Muslims and weren't acting in accordance with Islam. Turns out they were just the most Islamic people on the planet.

The article has some good points, but the quickest end to this situation is with overwhelming force from Western intervention. If we isolate them and let them drag this out, it will cause millions to suffer under their rule much longer than necessary.

 

[Victorian Gray]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

So you are admitting that you are a duck? Cool.

 

[Jaskalas]

Did you read the article? Your proposal would put you on ISIS's man of the year poster! They would love nothing more than for the US to do what you want, it would be, in their minds, the prophecy coming true. Why would I help legitimize their cause?

Dead men have no cause.

You continuously skip the part where they'd be killed. Why would you want the world to suffer them another day?

 

[DrDoug]

Here is an interesting opinion of Woods' article that I came across. Some real interesting information in it.

 

[ivwshane]

Dead men have no cause.

You continuously skip the part where they'd be killed. Why would you want the world to suffer them another day?

And you skip over the part where they continuously add new recruits (even people from our own country).

 

[Atreus21]

The Inquisition was no cakewalk.

Which one?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Here is an interesting opinion of Woods' article that I came across. Some real interesting information in it.

Thanks for posting that. I was happy to see that he addressed the role/importance of tribal dynamics in what's happening.

And this caught my eye as well:

"Among the biggest is that this is a problem internal to Islam. As a result Muslims have to resolve it for themselves. In many ways what we are watching in real time is the Islamic equivalent of the Reformation, counter-Reformation, and then the splintering within the Reformation that led to hundreds of years of struggle, conflict, and warfare in Europe. A lot of it had to do with which version of Christian theology and dogma was supposed to be correct and followed, but a lot of it used that as a motivating factor so elites and notables could control resources. Ultimately they became so intertwined, that even into the 1990s in Northern Ireland or the Balkans they could not be easily teased apart."

 

[michal1980]

So you are admitting that you are a duck? Cool.

No.

But when you stop defending, and standing up for ISIS, we'll stop calling you a sympathizer / supporter.

 

[frowertr]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pork-bullets-aim-send-jihadists-hell-article-1.1382008

And most of the rest of the middle east.

 

[realibrad]

Thanks for posting that. I was happy to see that he addressed the role/importance of tribal dynamics in what's happening.

And this caught my eye as well:

"Among the biggest is that this is a problem internal to Islam. As a result Muslims have to resolve it for themselves. In many ways what we are watching in real time is the Islamic equivalent of the Reformation, counter-Reformation, and then the splintering within the Reformation that led to hundreds of years of struggle, conflict, and warfare in Europe. A lot of it had to do with which version of Christian theology and dogma was supposed to be correct and followed, but a lot of it used that as a motivating factor so elites and notables could control resources. Ultimately they became so intertwined, that even into the 1990s in Northern Ireland or the Balkans they could not be easily teased apart."

Do you agree that Islam needs a reformation like Christianity had?

 

[blastingcap]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pork-bullets-aim-send-jihadists-hell-article-1.1382008

And most of the rest of the middle east.

Idiots who believe this scares Muslims probably also believe those stupid "Black Jack Pershing" tweets I've seen.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.asp

 

[oobydoobydoo]

The article has some good points, but the quickest end to this situation is with overwhelming force from Western intervention.

You might be right short term, but long term I think this will end up screwing us over again. There is nothing to be gained from any involvement in Syria right now besides the fall of ISIS... and even that has many downsides to Israel and, by extension, the US. What would we get from destroying ISIS, besides fewer people getting their heads chopped off in the middle east? Islamic State is a huge boogeyman the MIC can use to gain donations, it is a boon to Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, General Dynamics.... these are huge employers in the US that have huge influence and they have a lot to gain from keeping ISIS around and just bombing them. They have a good reason to ask for more aircraft, bombs, whatever... and a reason that won't go away until ISIS disappears.

On top of that, Israel knows it is safer with IS fighting Hezbollah and the SAA... Nusra already pretty much observes a truce with the IDF on it's border. Hezbollah and the SAA are getting shredded in this conflict, that's good in the opinion of Israel.

We should think twice before we get ourselves into a situation like we did in Beruit in 1982...

 

[Rebel_L]

Perhaps Obama does know the truth behind ISIS, wouldn't you give it a 1% chance? or rather prefer to completely ignore the accusations of most Arab's population about Daesh existence.



It's more of the same to continue the brainwash process against Muslims. I would ignore it exactly as I did ignore the alleged khalifa speech, back in June 2014.


For the writer to say that those criminals are following Islam/prophet guide is a huge insult to us, as we have the proof from Quran, Hadith and the prophet's history against them and their believes.

I wonder, have you guys ever heard about one Hadith (prophet say) that state "For whom would kill a Muaa'hid (non-Muslim while being safely staying among them), he wouldn't smell the heaven, even it could be smelled from a 40-years walking distance", Narrated by Bukhari.
(من قتل نفسا معاهدا لم يرح رائحة الجنة, وإن ريحها ليوجد من مسيرة أربعين عام&#1575.

While I have sympathy for your situation Omar, the label "Muslim" is not a label that you can claim ownership of. It is fed by all the people who claim to belong to it, including the people of ISIS. This is much the same as the label "Christian". There are many distinct large groups of Christians that represent differing beliefs yet in broad categories they are all lumped into one. Catholic priests molesting alter boys.... yup that was the Christians, people bombing abortion clinics... yup some of those are Christians too. All large labels have advantages and disadvantages, anyone who interacts positively with the label build a positive bias and anyone who interacts negatively with the label will build a negative bias. If you don't like you Samsung TV its far less likely you will buy a Samsung phone or fridge or hard drive, it doesn't matter how unrelated the development and manufacturing cycles are between different divisions of Samsung.

In the end the only thing you can do to improve the perception of your label is to be a positive interaction for people with your label. People have an easier time remembering the negative interactions though so it is not easy and the amount of positive interactions need to outweigh the negatives by a fair bit. It really is like marketing, negatives can tank your label fast and its slow to build a good rep, the only way to build that rep though is to go out and do it. Trying to argue that ISIS is not part of your group is going to be a lot less effective that being an active visible and positive member of your community. It will be slow, but if you want to work on a good rep, that is the way to do it.

 

[Darwin333]

I know a surprising number of Christians who do believe the Bible is the literal word of G-d, dictated, transcribed and copied flawlessly (almost always directly into the King James version, Jesus being such a fanboi of medieval English.) They just don't want to crucify you, burn you alive, decapitate you, or stone you (well, except for the Rastafarians) for believing otherwise because that wouldn't be very Christian. (Though they will politely hand you enough informative pamphlets to threaten your life with paper cuts.) By contrast, such behavior would be extremely typical of Muhammad, who conquered and ruled by the sword.

I was raised as a Catholic and at mass when the priest read from the bible he would always end with "the word of the lord" to which we replied "thanks be to god" followed by a bunch of friggen standing, sitting, kneeling, standing again, sitting, getting up to wait in line to enjoy the sacred cannibalism, kneeling again, sitting and maybe another stand thrown in before we could finally get the hell out of there.

 

[piasabird]

To me when I see they are trying to take over Iraq, Iran, and Libya, sounds like to me they want to take over Oil assets so they can fund their massacre of everyone else not like them.

It is just some megalomaniacs starting a world war III. It is also BLOOD FOR OIL.

I think the world needs to learn to get by without buying Oil from Terrorists.

Maybe the USA and the world should just concentrate on protecting the Oil Resources.

 

[Kadarin]

I was raised as a Catholic and at mass when the priest read from the bible he would always end with "the word of the lord" to which we replied "thanks be to god" followed by a bunch of friggen standing, sitting, kneeling, standing again, sitting, getting up to wait in line to enjoy the sacred cannibalism, kneeling again, sitting and maybe another stand thrown in before we could finally get the hell out of there.

That is pretty much my memory of church as a kid, and is why I am not at all religious.