what are your religious beliefs?

[Whitedog]

I don't believe anyone at this Forum has been converted one way or the other EVER from the results of these threads...

Most everyone here is set in there ways and just like to argue with the next guy that they are right and you are wrong.

I quit wasting my time on these long ago.

Have fun.

p.s. What Chad said...

Got Jesus?

 

[Athanasius]

Rahvin:

Read John 8:24, 28, and 58 in your Greek New Testament before you state that, in "our religious document," Christ (who is the joining of the Word and the human Jesus) never claimed to be God. And that is just for starters.

Anyway, this thread was supposed to be a simple statement of religious beliefs.

EmperorNero, if you have sincere questions, feel free to e-mail me. I will try to respond in a sincere, non-authoritative matter.

Each one should decide for themselves what they believe, and think through it deeply enough to be ready to live and die with the results of that chosen belief system.

On that point, I think even rahvin and I can agree.

 

[EmperorNero]

thrashman, umm...thanks for your support but I think you got more ppl pissed at me, which means they would be less likely to take me seriously or keep an open-mind.

Athanasius,


<< read John 1 carefully. What John is saying is that no human has seen God the Father at any time. But the Word/Logos that is the revelation of God the Father/God Unknowable and Unseen is &quot;God Seen&quot; or the &quot;Father Revealed&quot; in a particular time or a particular place. Compare John 1 with John 14:1-9. The Word is of the same substance as the Father, hence the Word is God. >>



I really do not understand what you were saying, especially the part in bold. and I'm sure I'm not the only confused one.

zonker,


<< You are obviously seeking God and trying to draw near to Him. But the influence of &quot;the great deciever&quot; in the form of all the &quot;discrepancies&quot; and &quot;contradictions&quot; as propagated on the athiest sites is making it hard for you. >>



but those atheist sites only gave me more points of view on the religion issue, so I can compare and contrast between those different viewpoints and find which one makes more sense to me; me reading other side's arguments (in this case, atheists) doesn't mean I've suddenly taken everything they believe and made it my own, it only opened up more perspectives on a certain issue.

whitedog, I agree - the original purpose of this thread was to find out what others believe in, I should have known what my post would turn into (although this thread is rather tame and civilized compared to others I've seen). since probably everyone knows what my stand on religion and the bible is, so I'll shut up now.

 

[Athanasius]

EmperorNero:

Sorry. That sentence was kind of a run on and convoluted.

OK, I'll try again. God is pure Spirit. (John 4:24, 2 Cor 4:17) He is &quot;Unseen.&quot; Unless God chooses to reveal Himself, He is unknowable (1 Timothy 6:14-16).

However, being by nature Love (1 John 4:8), God does choose to reveal Himself and make Himself known. Hence, He manifests Himself in particular times and in particular places in a way that humans can perceive with their senses. This would include the Burning Bush (Exodus 3), the time that God walked with Abraham (Genesis 18-19), and many other occasions. This manifestation of God in a particular time and place is called a theophany. It is the &quot;Logos&quot; or &quot;Word&quot; or &quot;Revelation&quot; of God.


By Christian belief, God, who is eternal and omnipresent, joined His own Logos/Word/Revelation directly to the perfect humanity of Jesus of Nazareth. But God did this permanently. That is the meaning of Colossians 2:9-10, which I referenced in my earlier post. So God, who in His Person, His Logos, and His Spirit is Omnnipresent and Unknowable, now makes Himself known through the man Jesus of Nazareth.

If you are loosely familiar with physics (I don't know how old you are or if you have studied any physics), then consider this as a limited illustration: God the Father is the wave. God the Son (or Word) (Jesus) is the particle.

I'm out of time now but would love to respond further if you are interested. I'll check back in later. Or, anyone here is welcome to e-mail me.

 

[littlelilith]

&quot;I learned to not listen to Atheist, new agers etc. They spew nothing but dribble in my opinion.&quot;

A bit closed-minded, don't you think? It's perfectly fine not to agree with someone, just to not listen at all? Everyone has a valuable opinion, and life can be richer from hearing about things from different points of view. Sticking ones fingers in ones ears while shouting &quot;I can't hear youuuu!&quot; surely makes a person closed-minded.

&quot;New agers and Satanism have a lot in common in their beliefs. Both Satan and New agers believe that they are God!&quot;

Not so. Satanists believe this, yes, but I think you don't understand what &quot;new agers&quot; are, exactly..

[Merriam-Webster Dictionary] New Age - Of, relating to, or being a late 20th century social movement drawing on ancient concepts esp. from Eastern and American Indian traditions and incorporating such themes as *holism, concern for nature, spirituality, and metaphysics.

metaphysic - Of or relating to the transcendent or to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses.

[New Oxforn Dictionary of English] New Age - A broad movement characterized by alternative approaches to traditional Western culture, with an interest in spirituality, *holism, and environmentalism.

[dictionary.com] New Age - Of or relating to a complex of spiritual and consciousness-raising movements of the 1980's covering a range of themes from a belief in spiritualism to advocacy of *holistic approaches to health and ecology.

*holistic - a. Emphasizing the importance of the whole and the interdependence of its parts. b. Concerned with wholes rather than analysis or separation into parts: holistic medicine; holistic ecology.

&quot;Metaphysics&quot; might sound creepy, but nearly every religion has some focus on it. Christianity certainly does.. God, Satan, heaven and hell would all be within that realm.

&quot;Both of them agree that you should do what thou will and have no remorse for it.&quot;

Again, not so. While Satanists do believe that each person is their own god, and you should do whatever you want, &quot;New Agers&quot; (which, by the way, would cover a vast majority of non-Jeudeo-Christian religions today) do not believe that. It seems you were refering more specifically to Wicca and the Wiccan Rede. &quot;An ye harm none, do as ye will.&quot; What this means is that as long as something is not done with the intent to harm anything (person, including oneself, animal, or thing), then one can do whatever they want. This is basically the same as your ten commandments and concepts of sin (if you are not murdering, stealing, etc. then it is ok), except this covers *everything* harmful and not merely a handful of things. Wiccans also have the threefold law that they follow, which says that whatever you do comes back to you threefold, whether it is good or bad. This is also a theme common to your beliefs.. If you are good and do what God requires, then you will be rewarded with heaven. If you do evil then you will go to hell. Nowhere do &quot;new agers&quot; believe that you should do whatever you want and have no remorse.

 

[littlelilith]

Another thing.. I was wondering what any of you think of the Gospel of Thomas. I'll go find a link for anyone who wants to read it..

 

[bones10]

littlelilith,

You wrote:


<< If you are good and do what God requires, then you will be rewarded with heaven. If you do evil then you will go to hell. >>



You are mistaken about Christian beliefs here. Christians believe that no one can do enough good things to earn their way to heaven. Instead Christians believe that Jesus took our punishement in our place so we would not have to go to hell.

Just wanted to clarify things here.

- bones

edit: to fix typos.

 

[~zonker~]

littlelilith

I've looked at several books regarding the Gospel of Thomas. I have bought none. It appears to be apocrypha to me. It would be interesting reading, like most apocrypha, but not something I would base my faith in.

Again, I've not read it. There many other things as far as theological reading that will be higher on my list

 

[littlelilith]

<< You are mistaken about Christian beliefs here. Christians believe that no one can do enough good things to earn their way to heaven. Instead Christians believe that Jesus took our punishement in our place so we would not have to go to hell. >>



Not entirely.. if the only thing that gets people to heaven, no other factors considered, is that Jesus died and took punishment in our place, then everyone would go to heaven, regarless of what they believe. The idea is that a) Jesus had to die for you, b) you have to believe that happened, and c) you have to believe in God, then you will go to heaven.. which is what I meant, in summary, by my statement. Sorry if that was confusing.

 

[bones10]

littlelilith,

Here is what I understand you to be saying. If a person is good and does what God requires, then he/she will be rewarded with heaven. And that 'good' the person does is to believe that Jesus died, and believe in God.

FYI, this doesn't sound at all like your first statement that I quoted.

Anyway, if I understand you correctly, then I say your understanding of Christain beliefs is close, but not quite right.

By this paraphrase of your statement, Satan will go to heaven too since he too believes that God exists and that Jesus died. Christians believe that for a person to go to heaven, they have to accept the forgiveness that Jesus offers.

Let me put it a different way. The act of a person's belief is not what saves them. Rather, it is Jesus who saves the person. The difference is that in once case it sounds like &quot;if a person jumps through the right hoops, they go to heaven&quot;. In the other case, its &quot;God jumps through the hoops and offers a gift that we merely have to accept.&quot;

The only reason I think some people will not go to heaven is that they cannot or will not accept the forgiveness that is offered.

Anyway, I thought you might find this interesting.

- bones

 

[~zonker~]

bones, lillith....

Maybe this is the way it works. I believe it.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. (1JN 1:5~7 NIV)

 

[bones10]

Zonker,

I'm not sure that passage you quoted makes things any clearer. By posting this passage in this context, you seem to imply that you have to do good things or be a good person in order to be forgiven.

If we look at Luke 23:39-43:
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: &quot;Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!&quot;
40
But the other criminal rebuked him. &quot;Don't you fear God,&quot; he said, &quot;since you are under the same sentence?
41
We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.&quot;
42
Then he said, &quot;Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. &quot;
43
Jesus answered him, &quot;I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.&quot;

You see a criminal who is saved. Now I belive the reason this criminal is saved through his faith in Jesus. This faith is shown by the words he spoke.

Now this criminal is not going to have a chance to hop down from his cross to go around doing good works. And it certainly does not appear he was &quot;walking in the light&quot; before he got put on that cross. He certainly does not appear to be a &quot;good&quot; person.

This is why, I suppose, I belive at the core of it, we are saved by Jesus, becuase, through faith, we accept the forgivenss he offers.

Hopefully I have not misunderstood your intent.

edit: fixed grammar and spelling [I probably still missed some too :-(]

- bones

 

[~zonker~]

Best one I know of Bones.... right here


But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
(Romans 3:21~22)

 

[bones10]

From your last post, Zonker, it appears we are saying the same thing.

- bones