What are realistic expectations when negotiating for a new car?

[zinfamous]

Just went to the dealership with my wife so she could test it out and see it. The one I'm most interested is the SX model.

They are aware that $50k is what I'm looking to spend

After driving it and then sitting down, general gist of it is they will give it to me for $52.3k out the door. This is using their financing at 7% and also getting a $1500 rebate because of that. THey told me they can do lower financing but the rebate wouldn't kick in. They also said to use their financing and then if I have a better one, after a month, just refinance. They didn't seem to budge on rate with the rebate.

Then the other one I was interested is the EX, which just has some less features such as less cameras, 1 less sunroof, non premium stereo, and no fog lights. They offered that to me at $49.8k.

Before I left the manager said he could get me another $1k off of the SX most likely.

Anyways here are the sheets below. The EX one has a rebate of $2500 over $1500, which he said was specific to that model, and I'm not positive why.

They also did say to try and come back before the end of the month because that is when their numbers can help me out the most.

I am thinking maybe I just email them and say "look if you can get under $50k let me know otherwise I won't be back for the SX and just shop around more." I have seen SX models for $45 - $47k (MSRP) from other dealerships, however they are not the colors I want. I also am not sure of the fine print after all said and done though.

Keep in mind in the pics below, the "out the door price" is the Total Price minus the Total Rebates.

yes, to the bolded. He's already offered you another 1k off as you walk out. Just wait for him to call you back and offer another $1-2k off.

You don't even have to email.

 

[zinfamous]

Midnight blue with black interior.

I did some math tonight and am going to counter with a $49,550 offer.

The other manager quoted me $48k for the car in another email before I went in today.

$48k + 6% tax + the doc/license/title fees quoted on the price sheet they gave me is $52,050.

Then minus the $2500 rebate that brings the total to $49,550.

I'm going to explain all of that math to them in an email so they know where I came up with that and see what they have to say about that.

I am also like 100% confident that they are going to match my Navy Fed 4.49% financing otherwise they also lose out on the interest because I will immediately refinance if I do their 7% rate, and they will know that lol.

EDIT:

I do think the $2500 rebate may be a one off because that car has like 3500 miles on it. It was probably a dealership loaner or something at some point. I am 100% out on the EX model at this point but they don't know that yet. Would it be better to just let them know I am not interested in that one at this point?

3500 miles on it? and they are calling that NEW?

Bollocks. That's not a new car.

In this case, I'd want to buy that as a used car with the depreciation already priced in. Call it a new car, but buy it at a used car price, because it is. This doesn't affect the warranty.

My pal did this some years ago, and he had a knack for finding these "used" same-year new model year cars with low mileage (for a used car) that dealers would sell to him.

 

[zinfamous]

I refinanced after a couple months when I bought my truck in '18. Got the extra discount/rebate/whatever through GM with financing through them, waited a couple months and then went through a local credit union for a much better rate. I can't imagine the month or two at 7% vs 4.49% is going to cost you more than the rebate, and the dealer may not be able to budge on the rate set by Kia.

Also, not sure I'd buy a dealer loaner. Those things are driven like rental cars.

all of this. No real reason to try and leverage the dealer to give you a better rate. Just take their rebate and crap loan and refinance it yourself. You already know that you can do that.

Also, it's my experience that dealerships don't like to work with manufacturer loans. They aren't going to give all those rebates or negotiate much on price with manufacturer financing.

also...yeah I mean, don't buy a rental car if you are actually looking to buy a new car, OP. This seems, not so great.

You also mentioned other dealers that have better offers but not the color you want. Try calling them and see what they can do on price for a Midnight Blue. They will do the work for you and if they can, will buy one from a local dealer and then sell it to you at your negotiated price if they want to. No reason not to try.

 

[nOOky]

3500 miles on it? and they are calling that NEW?

Bollocks. That's not a new car.

In this case, I'd want to buy that as a used car with the depreciation already priced in. Call it a new car, but buy it at a used car price, because it is. This doesn't affect the warranty.

My pal did this some years ago, and he had a knack for finding these "used" same-year new model year cars with low mileage (for a used car) that dealers would sell to him.

I didn't catch that, 3,500 miles is far from being new to me. That should drop the price a lot. Run away from that one, they are trying to get you to absorb that "drive it off the lot and it's worth thousands less" hit, which would be great for them.

 

[purbeast0]

The EX model is the one with 3500 miles on it and it's the one I told them I am not interested in, so yah that one isn't on the table right now.

 

[DaaQ]

3500 miles on it? and they are calling that NEW?

Bollocks. That's not a new car.

In this case, I'd want to buy that as a used car with the depreciation already priced in. Call it a new car, but buy it at a used car price, because it is. This doesn't affect the warranty.

My pal did this some years ago, and he had a knack for finding these "used" same-year new model year cars with low mileage (for a used car) that dealers would sell to him.

Yea that is a demo car, that sales people let others test drive, or some of the higher ups at the dealer will drive them around for a short bit. But if it's in leasing terms, what's the average yearly limit? About 10k to 15k some as low as 5000. Let's use 10k for that dealership, it already has over 3 months of mileage on it.

It also could be that it was driven from one dealership to another, for a large portion of those miles. Say from Michigan to Florida. I have had dealers get me a car from a different dealer, but usually they are put on a truck and hauled.

 

[purbeast0]

I started chatting with another dealership about a 2025 black on black one and today I got the price sheet from them on email and told them that was pretty far over my $50k budget and I was going to pass on checking it out in person, and they said since it's black friday the manager would be willing to work a little bit with me. So I decided to just go check it out in person and drive it and see what they could do. Here is the starting point that they sent before I went in.

After driving it and sitting down with them, knowing full well what my budget was and stuff, the lowest they went today was $52,500. I told them that I was also looking at one at another local shop and trying to get a $50k deal going on and have been talking to them for a bit.

After she went back to her manager, she came back and said that there was no way they were going to be able to do $50k but to go check out the other one and see what price I can get, and then let them know what it is and they will see what they can do. She flat out said that $52,500 isn't the lowest price but she thinks it will only be like 300 - 500 lower. So basically $52k.

What I did not tell them was that I am looking at a 2024 one. I also did not let them know I would prefer the black color and that I am just between the blue and black colors and basically looking for the best deal right now.

I was going to go back to the other dealerhsip tonight and talk to them but I was tired after leaving this place so I didn't go. I am definitely going to go there tomorrow though as it's the end of the month and they want to close.

Now that all said, all things equal, I like the black one more for sure. I think at this point I'd pay $1k more for the black one over the blue one. I like the blacked out badges on the 2025 models and the black/black just looks super sleek.

The other dealership I went to today to check out the black one also told me even though tomorrow is the end of the month, for sales purposes Sunday is the last day for November and Monday is when it switches over.

After seeing that price above and that they budged down to $52,500, anyone have a realistic idea of how much lower they can realistically go? Like I know there is a "bottom line" they can get to and going past it is dumb and not realistic.

I also am going to be put in a bind if tomorrow they do make me a deal for $50k for the blue one and I am there in person and am hesitant to purchase it lol. But in the end it's my money so I'll do what I want. I plan on telling them tomorrow that I've since checked out other cars as well so they know they aren't the only player in the game right now.

EDIT:

Also I found this the other day where it compares MSRP with what you should pay.

2025 Kia Telluride Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds

Research the 2025 Kia Telluride with our expert reviews and ratings. Edmunds also has Kia Telluride pricing, MPG, specs, pictures, safety features, consumer reviews and more. Our comprehensive coverage delivers all you need to know to make an informed car buying decision.

www.edmunds.com

And on there, the MSRP of 2025 SX X-line is $50,850 and they recommend paying $48,933 - almost $2k less.

Should that be something I can use to negotiate as well? Like on what I posted up above, the MSRP is $51,600, should I be like I'll pay around $49,600 MSRP for the car?

 

[BoomerD]

I started chatting with another dealership about a 2025 black on black one and today I got the price sheet from them on email and told them that was pretty far over my $50k budget and I was going to pass on checking it out in person, and they said since it's black friday the manager would be willing to work a little bit with me. So I decided to just go check it out in person and drive it and see what they could do. Here is the starting point that they sent before I went in.

After driving it and sitting down with them, knowing full well what my budget was and stuff, the lowest they went today was $52,500. I told them that I was also looking at one at another local shop and trying to get a $50k deal going on and have been talking to them for a bit.

After she went back to her manager, she came back and said that there was no way they were going to be able to do $50k but to go check out the other one and see what price I can get, and then let them know what it is and they will see what they can do. She flat out said that $52,500 isn't the lowest price but she thinks it will only be like 300 - 500 lower. So basically $52k.

What I did not tell them was that I am looking at a 2024 one. I also did not let them know I would prefer the black color and that I am just between the blue and black colors and basically looking for the best deal right now.

I was going to go back to the other dealerhsip tonight and talk to them but I was tired after leaving this place so I didn't go. I am definitely going to go there tomorrow though as it's the end of the month and they want to close.

Now that all said, all things equal, I like the black one more for sure. I think at this point I'd pay $1k more for the black one over the blue one. I like the blacked out badges on the 2025 models and the black/black just looks super sleek.

The other dealership I went to today to check out the black one also told me even though tomorrow is the end of the month, for sales purposes Sunday is the last day for November and Monday is when it switches over.

After seeing that price above and that they budged down to $52,500, anyone have a realistic idea of how much lower they can realistically go? Like I know there is a "bottom line" they can get to and going past it is dumb and not realistic.

I also am going to be put in a bind if tomorrow they do make me a deal for $50k for the blue one and I am there in person and am hesitant to purchase it lol. But in the end it's my money so I'll do what I want. I plan on telling them tomorrow that I've since checked out other cars as well so they know they aren't the only player in the game right now.

EDIT:

Also I found this the other day where it compares MSRP with what you should pay.

2025 Kia Telluride Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds

Research the 2025 Kia Telluride with our expert reviews and ratings. Edmunds also has Kia Telluride pricing, MPG, specs, pictures, safety features, consumer reviews and more. Our comprehensive coverage delivers all you need to know to make an informed car buying decision.

www.edmunds.com

And on there, the MSRP of 2025 SX X-line is $50,850 and they recommend paying $48,933 - almost $2k less.

Should that be something I can use to negotiate as well? Like on what I posted up above, the MSRP is $51,600, should I be like I'll pay around $49,600 MSRP for the car?

Options above the trim level standard are what will really drive the price above what Edmunds says.
FFS, why a black vehicle? They show every speck of dirt…and in the summertime, they’re hot as blazes. ( sure, they’ll cool off with AC, but getting in one that’s been parked in full sun can be miserable. (easily 10-20 degrees hotter than a white one)

 

[purbeast0]

Options above the trim level standard are what will really drive the price above what Edmunds says.
FFS, why a black vehicle? They show every speck of dirt…and in the summertime, they’re hot as blazes. ( sure, they’ll cool off with AC, but getting in one that’s been parked in full sun can be miserable. (easily 10-20 degrees hotter than a white one)

With the Edmunds price, that is why I am wondering if the MSRP on the one I'm at is higher, due to the color being a "premium" color perhaps, but if I kept the difference between the MSRP and what edmunds says, should that still be realistic? Like basically $2k under MSRP?

Also I currently have a black on black car and the summers can get very hot and humid and I don't mind it. This car also has remote start which my current car doesn't have and can't since it's manual, so I could use that to cool the car down before getting into it.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I started chatting with another dealership about a 2025 black on black one and today I got the price sheet from them on email and told them that was pretty far over my $50k budget and I was going to pass on checking it out in person, and they said since it's black friday the manager would be willing to work a little bit with me. So I decided to just go check it out in person and drive it and see what they could do. Here is the starting point that they sent before I went in.

After driving it and sitting down with them, knowing full well what my budget was and stuff, the lowest they went today was $52,500. I told them that I was also looking at one at another local shop and trying to get a $50k deal going on and have been talking to them for a bit.

After she went back to her manager, she came back and said that there was no way they were going to be able to do $50k but to go check out the other one and see what price I can get, and then let them know what it is and they will see what they can do. She flat out said that $52,500 isn't the lowest price but she thinks it will only be like 300 - 500 lower. So basically $52k.

What I did not tell them was that I am looking at a 2024 one. I also did not let them know I would prefer the black color and that I am just between the blue and black colors and basically looking for the best deal right now.

I was going to go back to the other dealerhsip tonight and talk to them but I was tired after leaving this place so I didn't go. I am definitely going to go there tomorrow though as it's the end of the month and they want to close.

Now that all said, all things equal, I like the black one more for sure. I think at this point I'd pay $1k more for the black one over the blue one. I like the blacked out badges on the 2025 models and the black/black just looks super sleek.

The other dealership I went to today to check out the black one also told me even though tomorrow is the end of the month, for sales purposes Sunday is the last day for November and Monday is when it switches over.

After seeing that price above and that they budged down to $52,500, anyone have a realistic idea of how much lower they can realistically go? Like I know there is a "bottom line" they can get to and going past it is dumb and not realistic.

I also am going to be put in a bind if tomorrow they do make me a deal for $50k for the blue one and I am there in person and am hesitant to purchase it lol. But in the end it's my money so I'll do what I want. I plan on telling them tomorrow that I've since checked out other cars as well so they know they aren't the only player in the game right now.

EDIT:

Also I found this the other day where it compares MSRP with what you should pay.

2025 Kia Telluride Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds

Research the 2025 Kia Telluride with our expert reviews and ratings. Edmunds also has Kia Telluride pricing, MPG, specs, pictures, safety features, consumer reviews and more. Our comprehensive coverage delivers all you need to know to make an informed car buying decision.

www.edmunds.com

And on there, the MSRP of 2025 SX X-line is $50,850 and they recommend paying $48,933 - almost $2k less.

Should that be something I can use to negotiate as well? Like on what I posted up above, the MSRP is $51,600, should I be like I'll pay around $49,600 MSRP for the car?

I do not like what I am seeing in their quote. There is no MSRP and just a bunch of numbers. $1186 in junk fees. You need to step back from the process and take your time. The car market is upside down and dealers are still trying to roll customers. The dealer that offered financing with a rebate was probably trying to pocket another rebate by having you finance privately. Stuff like that. You want Kia financing through Kia Motor Corporation. When you get that lined up there is no dickering or 3 card monty on their end. The games never end.

 

[purbeast0]

I do not like what I am seeing in their quote. There is no MSRP and just a bunch of numbers. $1186 in junk fees. You need to step back from the process and take your time. The car market is upside down and dealers are still trying to roll customers. The dealer that offered financing with a rebate was probably trying to pocket another rebate by having you finance privately. Stuff like that. You want Kia financing through Kia Motor Corporation. When you get that lined up there is no dickering or 3 card monty on their end. The games never end.

Those "junk fees" are doc fee, title, license stuff. Basically all dealerships have that same structure. Why they didn't just say exactly what it is, yeah that is kinda whacky.

Even though they don't list it as MSRP, the "market value selling point" is MSRP. I found it from the Kia website and it is listed as $51,600 MSRP on there.

When you say take my time, do you mean just tell them "hey this is my price, let me know when you can meet it." and just wait it out basically?

The thing is though I don't know if the trim level I am looking at has as much wiggle room where I can dictate the terms. Just based on what I'm seeing talking to multiple dealers now, the $50k price for the trim and color I want doesn't seem very realistic.

But I am also a noob to this and really have no clue about how this all works when it comes to price lol.

 

[Brainonska511]

Those "junk fees" are doc fee, title, license stuff. Basically all dealerships have that same structure. Why they didn't just say exactly what it is, yeah that is kinda whacky.

It doesn't cost $1100 to register and title a vehicle. Obviously, it's okay to pad it a little because someone at the dealership is doing the work, but it's not like $800 of work. Not sure how it is in your state, but in MA, dealerships can act as remote RMVs and file and issue key paperwork (ie, no need for an RMV runner).

 

[brianmanahan]

all of this is why i haven't replaced my old car in almost 15 years haha

i stressed so much over the whole process and the fees and the haggling and the salesmen that i don't want to do it again any time soon

 

[purbeast0]

It doesn't cost $1100 to register and title a vehicle. Obviously, it's okay to pad it a little because someone at the dealership is doing the work, but it's not like $800 of work. Not sure how it is in your state, but in MA, dealerships can act as remote RMVs and file and issue key paperwork (ie, no need for an RMV runner).

Yah that doc fee thing is pretty much BS but $800 is the max allowed in MD and so far every place has had it listed at $800 because they can lol. The title/license stuff seems to be around $300 from every place I've seen. Actual tags are like $130 so I don't know exactly what the other shit is for.

 

[Brainonska511]

Yah that doc fee thing is pretty much BS but $800 is the max allowed in MD and so far every place has had it listed at $800 because they can lol. The title/license stuff seems to be around $300 from every place I've seen. Actual tags are like $130 so I don't know exactly what the other shit is for.

Profit padding.

 

[Brainonska511]

all of this is why i haven't replaced my old car in almost 15 years haha

i stressed so much over the whole process and the fees and the haggling and the salesmen that i don't want to do it again any time soon

It doesn't have to be stressful. Plenty of ways to reduce the stress: take your time, know what your "must haves" vs "nice to haves" are, negotiate over email, and just knowing reasonable prices ahead of time using one of the many 'true value' calculators out there. And if anyone wants to give you shit, feel free to get up and walk away.

 

[K1052]

negotiate over email

It is amusing how many dealerships either refuse to do this or are very bad at it (constantly asking you to come in, long lags, etc). Once ended up buying from a dealer 2,000 miles away because they had their shit together, gave me a good price, and cut me a nice deal on transport. Just docusigned everything and wired them money.

 

[purbeast0]

Profit padding.

Yeah that wouldn't surprise me. Even when I was talking with them yesterday they were trying to get the price down and figuring out what they could take off to get it there, and she said they could remove the doc fee. I believe that is how they got it from like $53,300 to $52,500.

At this point though do you think it would be best to just wait for the end of the year deals?

I think I am actually now sold on having the 2025 black on black one at this point. I still like that midnight blue 2024 one but I have to say I really like the blacked out badging on the 2025 models versus the 2024 ones, and if I'm spending this kind of money on a vehicle, I do not want to settle. I do think the 2025 ones will cost slightly more in the end maybe by like $1k or so, but again, if I'm paying this much, might as well get what I really want.

I searched Kia's site and the only black/black 2025 sx x-line within 100 miles of me is the one I'm looking at right now. There are quite a few of them when I expand out even further.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Those "junk fees" are doc fee, title, license stuff. Basically all dealerships have that same structure. Why they didn't just say exactly what it is, yeah that is kinda whacky.

Even though they don't list it as MSRP, the "market value selling point" is MSRP. I found it from the Kia website and it is listed as $51,600 MSRP on there.

When you say take my time, do you mean just tell them "hey this is my price, let me know when you can meet it." and just wait it out basically?

The thing is though I don't know if the trim level I am looking at has as much wiggle room where I can dictate the terms. Just based on what I'm seeing talking to multiple dealers now, the $50k price for the trim and color I want doesn't seem very realistic.

But I am also a noob to this and really have no clue about how this all works when it comes to price lol.

You told them your price. That is a problem. Those junk fees I listed. You tell them yeah, everybody charges those fees. Lower your offer $1,750 to offset those fees. Let them know there is an inconvenience fee you charge dealers yourself. Not to worry, it's all worked into the offering price. Let them know you came to deal and you're going after their dealer holdback next.

Here is some useful information regarding Kia Telluride sales.

2024 Kia Telluride Sales Figures

Kia Telluride monthly, quarterly, and yearly sales and statistics in the United States. Including data and interactive charts for the latest model year 2024 and crossover/suvs segment.

carfigures.com

 

[fralexandr]

FYI in my area truecar has a few of the 2025 Telluride for ~$47510, and autotrader has one of the 2024 Kia Telluride with 9 miles for $43497. So depending on demand you should be able to get a 2024 for <$50k after taxes. Nvm those are FWD. I see AWD starting at ~$47804 for an SX X-Pro

 

[purbeast0]

Went to the initial dealer with the 2024 blue one today and they budged from $52,300 to $51,000 and the manager said that is as low as he can go. He said it's not just an "end of the month" offer and will last as long as the rebates and stuff are still available, as well as the car. I walked and didn't get it. I'm not sure if they will budge lower.

They flat out asked what price would be a no brainer and I would buy today, and I told em $48k, which I knew was too low but that was the truth. I even told em at $50k now that I've checked out other cars that I would hesitate today to purchase it.

 

[manly]

But I am also a noob to this and really have no clue about how this all works when it comes to price lol.

Nobody will really know the rock bottom price you can negotiate because there are many variables. That's why some are advising you to lowball, and just maybe the dealer's counter will be close enough to your desired price.

As far as "taking your time" to decide, for many consumers there is some emotional element to buying a new car. Ultimately you have to decide what your time is worth to you and how hard you want to haggle. Personally I love saving money and I'd settle for my 3rd preferred car paint color if it made sense to me.

For example, it sounds like if you could get the desired black one now for $51k out the door, you'd be willing to pull the trigger. We'd never know exactly how low the dealer would go if you put a gun to their head, but the flip side of that would be you drive home with the exact car you want at a price that almost makes you happy. In some circles, that's a win/win (I'm not justifying padded profit or usual stealership shenanigans).

You've already gotten good advice in this thread, but I always understood that no competent dealer would ever part with their holdback unless they were absolutely desperate to get rid of a vehicle. (Holdback is like a kickback from the manufacturer for achieving certain volume.)

The Telluride review I saw stated that MY2024 and MY2025 are virtually the same.

 

[purbeast0]

Nobody will really know the rock bottom price you can negotiate because there are many variables. That's why some are advising you to lowball, and just maybe the dealer's counter will be close enough to your desired price.

As far as "taking your time" to decide, for many consumers there is some emotional element to buying a new car. Ultimately you have to decide what your time is worth to you and how hard you want to haggle. Personally I love saving money and I'd settle for my 3rd preferred car paint color if it made sense to me.

For example, it sounds like if you could get the desired black one now for $51k out the door, you'd be willing to pull the trigger. We'd never know exactly how low the dealer would go if you put a gun to their head, but the flip side of that would be you drive home with the exact car you want at a price that almost makes you happy. In some circles, that's a win/win (I'm not justifying padded profit or usual stealership shenanigans).

You've already gotten good advice in this thread, but I always understood that no competent dealer would ever part with their holdback unless they were absolutely desperate to get rid of a vehicle. (Holdback is like a kickback from the manufacturer for achieving certain volume.)

The Telluride review I saw stated that MY2024 and MY2025 are virtually the same.

Yeah in hindsight I should have definitely said I'm looking for like $48k out the door. I realize that is probably not realistic for a car that has an MSRP around $51k, but the worst that would happen is they don't go that low.

And yeah the 2024 and 2025 are very similar. The specific thing I like about the 2025 is the black badging on the exterior. And I believe that is like an X-line thing only. Aside from that as you mentioned they are virtually identical to my knowledge.

 

[crashtech]

You could always buy the black badges later and put them on yourself.

 

[BoomerD]

If you're still at this on Monday, call your local DMV office with the VIN and the selling numbers. They should be able to give you a very accurate cost for title and licensing...then tell the dealer to shove the other junk fees.