West Virginia Bans Marriage for Children Age 15 or Younger March 2023

[nakedfrog]

Berry had multiple allegations against him but other than paying out a civil judgment, he did no jail time. Also, Berry is reverred as a pioneer of R&R today. I didn't even recall the accusations until you posted. In any event, he didn't destroy his legacy like R. Kelly or Bill Cosby did.

Also, I don't see how Elvis is remotely relevant here, as he married Priscilla in 1966 when she was 21 years old. He did start dating her in Germany when he was in the army and she was 14. But with dating, there is no proof of sexual relations. So I'm not sure what this comparison is even about.

Chuck Berry went to jail...

Appeals court upholds Chuck Berry’s conviction | October 27, 1961 | HISTORY

On October 27, 1961, a U.S. appeals court affirms rock ‘n’ roller Chuck Berry’s second conviction f...

www.history.com

And to clarify, I'm not saying this is an apples to apples comparison, just suggesting that if one is looking for a closer analog than R. Kelly, Chuck Berry is the one that came to mind.

 

[Greenman]

My point is for the same offense people choose who is a bad guy.

I think you chose a poor example. Elvis wanted a wife, Kelly had a slave.

 

[Zorba]

My point is for the same offense people choose who is a bad guy.

It's not the same offense. Or even close.

 

[hal2kilo]

@Greenman can you explain to me why Elvis was revered, and R. Kelly was reviled?

It happened at least 40 years earlier, and times/media was different?

 

[Captante]

It happened at least 40 years earlier, and times/media was different?

Personally I never liked that fat bastage. (Elvis)

 

[Captante]

My point is for the same offense people choose who is a bad guy.

You mean to imply that people render moral judgements based purely on "feels" ?!?

Why that's just crazy-talk!

I think you chose a poor example. Elvis wanted a wife, Kelly had a slave.

Valid point BUT Elvis was still seriously creepy if you look into his "relationship" with Priscilla.... just because Kelly behaved demonstrably worse does nothing to make what Elvis did any better.

Fwiw I do believe Elvis genuinely loved Priscilla. (and in my world that counts for something!)

 

[Greenman]

You mean to imply that people render moral judgements based purely on "feels" ?!?

Why that's just crazy-talk!




Valid point BUT Elvis was still seriously creepy if you look into his "relationship" with Priscilla.... just because Kelly behaved demonstrably worse does nothing to make what Elvis did any better.

Fwiw I do believe Elvis genuinely loved Priscilla. (and in my world that counts for something!)

I agree with all of this. I think the one thing no one has touched on is intent. I don't believe Elvis intended harm by snagging a young woman. It may seem creepy to us, but the two people involved clearly had a different perception of the situation.

 

[akugami]

In CA there is no minimum age but there must be parental consent, and also court consent, after a social worker interviews both of them. That probably weeds out the 60 year old pedos.

It's still something, but I have heard cases of middle aged men, marrying 16 year olds. It's just not right. You're going to be very hard pressed to convince me there isn't grooming going on. A 16 year girl should be going to school, or learning new things, and bettering herself to live out the rest of her life. Not saddled with a kid, and trapped for life.

 

[Captante]

Having raised/survived two teenage girls personally I have to say that I just can't see the attraction. (although I love my daughters dearly!)



Frankly the only reasonable explanation I see is either you're mentally/emotionally stunted and still a "teen" yourself (not in a good/light-hearted way!) OR you want a relationship where you can feel "superior" and be "in control" through manipulation.

 

[woolfe9998]

Chuck Berry went to jail...

Appeals court upholds Chuck Berry’s conviction | October 27, 1961 | HISTORY

On October 27, 1961, a U.S. appeals court affirms rock ‘n’ roller Chuck Berry’s second conviction f...

www.history.com

And to clarify, I'm not saying this is an apples to apples comparison, just suggesting that if one is looking for a closer analog than R. Kelly, Chuck Berry is the one that came to mind.

Even so, you need something to compare it to and Elvis doesn’t work.

I really just think you cannot make this sort of point with reference to anecdotes. Because every case is different. You need data to compare outcomes across large groups.

 

[woolfe9998]

Having raised/survived two teenage girls personally I have to say that I just can't see the attraction. (although I love my daughters dearly!)



Frankly the only reasonable explanation I see is either you're mentally/emotionally stunted and still a "teen" yourself (not in a good/light-hearted way!) OR you want a relationship where you can feel "superior" and be "in control" through manipulation.

You may not see the attraction, but apparently it is common. The word most often paired with “porn” is “teen” in google searches.

 

[Zorba]

You may not see the attraction, but apparently it is common. The word most often paired with “porn” is “teen” in google searches.

I think some of that is because a lot of 25-30 year old porn "stars" just look like complete trash. So there is a lot more chaff to search through if you are looking for older women.

"Amateur" porn seems better about that.

 

[shortylickens]

I am so bored with porn I actually stopped torrenting it a year ago.

Wait, what are we talking about?

 

[woolfe9998]

It's still something, but I have heard cases of middle aged men, marrying 16 year olds. It's just not right. You're going to be very hard pressed to convince me there isn't grooming going on. A 16 year girl should be going to school, or learning new things, and bettering herself to live out the rest of her life. Not saddled with a kid, and trapped for life.

I just gave you the law. Nothing more. But since you’re interested in opinions, I’d say the parental consent requirement will eliminate most grooming situations. And the court consent will eliminate any that are left over, at least those with big age differences or minors under 16.

That said, I cannot guaranty there aren’t any inappropriate permissions given. I’d be surprised if the system was perfect.

 

[Captante]

You may not see the attraction, but apparently it is common. The word most often paired with “porn” is “teen” in google searches.

"Physical" attraction to LEGAL/sexually mature teens is one thing.

Having one in your immediate proximity for any significant period of time OTOH.... (especially if you have to hear them speak more than 2-3 words!)

Why on earth would any sane person want that long-term?

 

[Captante]

I think some of that is because a lot of 25-30 year old porn "stars" just look like complete trash

You say that like it's some kind of "negative" !!!

 

[shortylickens]

MEANWHILE:

Sen. Mike Moon reiterates support for 12-year-old's right to marry in Missouri

The issue was brought up during a debate on a bill banning gender-affirming care for transgender minors.

www.news-leader.com

Because you gotta keep reminding your voters how evil you are.

 

[akugami]

I just gave you the law. Nothing more. But since you’re interested in opinions, I’d say the parental consent requirement will eliminate most grooming situations. And the court consent will eliminate any that are left over, at least those with big age differences or minors under 16.

That said, I cannot guaranty there aren’t any inappropriate permissions given. I’d be surprised if the system was perfect.

I understood where you're coming from.

Just expressing that the practice is not something I find palatable in today's society, parental approval or not. And I come from a culture with a history of children, mostly young girls, being married off by their parents at an early age.

 

[woolfe9998]

"Physical" attraction to LEGAL/sexually mature teens is one thing.

Having one in your immediate proximity for any significant period of time OTOH.... (especially if you have to hear them speak more than 2-3 words!)

Why on earth would any sane person want that long-term?

Sexual fantasties don't usually involve large amounts of conversation.

That said, I tend to agree. I raised one myself. Teenage girls may as well be from a different planet.

 

[woolfe9998]

I understood where you're coming from.

Just expressing that the practice is not something I find palatable in today's society, parental approval or not. And I come from a culture with a history of children, mostly young girls, being married off by their parents at an early age.

Yeah I get it's not with our current cultural zeitgeist. No one thought anything of Elvis dating Priscilla at age 14, but later when she was 20 and they were living together unmarried, his record label pressured him to marry her so they wouldn't be "living in sin," which in turn would damage his record sales. Today, practically no one gives a crap if people live together before marriage, but they care a lot about the age difference. Times change.

 

[shortylickens]

To me the current zeitgeist is a big ugly scary mess. And you know what? I dont see it getting fixed any time soon.

 

[woolfe9998]

I think some of that is because a lot of 25-30 year old porn "stars" just look like complete trash. So there is a lot more chaff to search through if you are looking for older women.

"Amateur" porn seems better about that.

Older women is a thing in American porn, but not that big a thing. In Japanese porn, they have a genre tag "mature" and there are a ton of actresses in it. Hundreds, actually. And they go up through their 50's. "Mature" starts at about 35. However, teens, typically portrayed as "school girls," is also a huge thing.

As for 25-30 year olds, they aren't really "mature." Some still play "teen" roles.

In any event, "teen" themed porn is quite popular in both cultures.

 

[woolfe9998]

To me the current zeitgeist is a big ugly scary mess. And you know what? I dont see it getting fixed any time soon.

Are you talking about in relation to this particular issue, or more in general?

I did reference changing times. Perhaps some day everyone will figure out it isn't cool to be a redneck asshole. One can only hope.

 

[shortylickens]

Well a zeitgeist is never about one particular incident. Its always about society in general. Although it can be a small society, like a city. Or a larger society like the planet.
For example San Francisco in the 60's had a very particular zeitgeist, as did London and New York.
The deep south in the 60's had its own zeitgeist that was comparable in the sense of there being great social change on the horizon, but down there it was less wonderful and more fearful.

 

[Captante]

23 and hitting up the high school is an issue for me. Also greenman is pretty trash so I really don’t give a shit.

That part I had covered already.