Went to Church for the First Time in a Long Time

[alkemyst]

And evolution doesn't talk about God at all.

It doesn't need too. It also doesn't talk about everything came from one thing.

A chemist probably doesn't talk about God either, even though they may be a devout follower.

 

[Jeff7]

When did parenting become "ethical" and, who decides? We do our best to insure our children share our beliefs. We've never treated children as equals nor, should we. People respond to marketing. Why wouldn't you use it to attract others to your beliefs?

It was really the statement and acknowledgement of "I need to get these ideas into the kid's head before he's old enough to really question them" that got me going.

If the information is so self-evidently true that it can stand up to any of the rigors of critical and rational analysis, then what's the rush to get it into their heads while they're still young, other than in an attempt to circumvent their ability to apply those skills to religion in the future?

 

[alkemyst]

Of course, but I was showing how atheists marked that as the beginning of the end of religion, and now since that proclamation didn't come to pass, they have to kick the can so far down the road that it extends beyond their lifetimes.

How convenient.

People get Darwin/Evolution all wrong on so many levels because they have no formal training in it and often no formal college education.

People still believe that Evolution is about everything all coming from some tadpole or worse just a rock.

It's no longer the belief really, there were probably a few 'trees' that things came from.

In theory, why wouldn't an extremely intelligent being not design an organism to change and adapt to it's environment instead of dying out.

 

[Malak]

It doesn't need too. It also doesn't talk about everything came from one thing.

A chemist probably doesn't talk about God either, even though they may be a devout follower.

I know, what I meant is there's no reason to think any scientific study would ever "kill God". Studying God is basically a science on its own that doesn't interfere with any other.

 

[SKORPI0]

An article in New Scientist I recall reading (printed in the early 80s) stated that it was believed Darwin put the "final nail in God's coffin".

That means religion should have been gone (or in serious jeopardy) probably early in the 20th century at the earliest.

New Scientist - May 26, 1977 issue ...Page 478.
http://books.google.com/books?id=wvUrHv3P3KcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

New Scientist magazine said: “The lay view persists—of scientists having ‘disproved’ religion. It is a view that commonly expects scientists to be nonbelievers; that Darwin put the last nails in God’s coffin; and that a succession of scientific and technological innovations since have ruled out the possibility of any resurrection. It is a view that is wildly wrong.”—May 26, 1977, p. 478.

 

[QueBert]

If you were truly Christian and truly believed in the Christian message of eternal torment for dying in a state of sin you'd go to church every week. So while you might like to believe that you're a Christian, you're not.

Matthew 18:20 says "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

You don't have to be in a church to be in a house of God. And not all Church's are houses of God. You couldn't understand things like this because by the tone of your message you believe your views are right and Religious people know next to nothing.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

If you were truly Christian and truly believed in the Christian message of eternal torment for dying in a state of sin you'd go to church every week. So while you might like to believe that you're a Christian, you're not.

The thing to remember is we do not judge, God does. Why do you focus on fire and brimstone instead of God's love?

 

[disappoint]

Easy answer

People are not as primitive and easily fooled as they used to be.

Everyone and their mothers know that religion/church is a business. It blows my mind they are still in business at this point, especially when you consider the amount of abuse that has been uncovered in recent years.

I really don't understand why you are introducing your children to superstition and "make believe" so early in their life.

If anything you should be teaching them the opposite.

Have you found P.T. Barnum?

 

[Retro Rob]

New Scientist - May 26, 1977 issue ...Page 478.
http://books.google.com/books?id=wvUrHv3P3KcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thanks for finding that, figured I didn't get the whole thing.

 

[disappoint]

An article in New Scientist I recall reading (printed in the early 80s) stated that it was believed Darwin put the "final nail in God's coffin".

That means religion should have been gone (or in serious jeopardy) probably early in the 20th century at the earliest.

Yeah, every generation has its slew of atheistic religious doomsday prophecies.

Religion will never be in jeopardy as long as education is.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Matthew 18:20 says "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

You don't have to be in a church to be in a house of God. And not all Church's are houses of God. You couldn't understand things like this because by the tone of your message you believe your views are right and Religious people know next to nothing.

That's why I laugh at the wannabelievers, because you can pick out any verse from the big book of fairy tales to support what you want it to say and simultaneously ignore the 99% that is evil, violent or just plain inconvenient. Like attending services on holy days. That rule comes from your religion, not from me. Despite that little plum you plucked out of the bible to excuse your wanting to sleep in rather than getting up early to go to church, the majority of Christian sects require attending real services with real priests. Four drunks who call themselves Christians gathering together to watch football on Sunday most definitely does not count as attending mass and if you don't go to a real service with a real priest you're committing a mortal sin which will condemn you to hell if you die in that state. I most definitely understand things like this, I was raised a catholic and learned all about how much god hates his people. And please try to get this right, I don't believe that religious people know next to nothing, I believe that they know absolutely nothing. And your ignorance on the importance of attending REAL services to keep your soul out of hell proves it.

The thing to remember is we do not judge, God does. Why do you focus on fire and brimstone instead of God's love?

Because god created you in his own image and you're still a giant piece of shit that will be consigned to eternal torment unless you kiss his ass every Sunday. I'm not judging anyone, I'm merely repeating the message that Christianity teaches. Try to get that through your head, your supposedly infallible cosmic muffin created you to be just like him and yet he did such a crappy job that you're garbage. I'm not making that up, that's really one of the central tenets of Christianity. If you don't like it take it up with the invisible man in the sky, not me.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Your desire wasn't for God. There are things you'll never understand or experience without that desire.

You don't know anything about me or what paths I've traveled to come to the conclusions I came to, yet you are claiming to know. Careful, you're getting close to sounding like a fortune telling sorceress. And as we all know, exodus 22:18 requires them to be put to death.

But god loves his creation.

Same thing was said when Darwin's book came out over 150 years ago, that religion should be "less important" within the next 100 years later.

It's 2014 and we're kicking that can further down the road.

What would you say the trend has been with religion since the mid 18th century when his book came out? Do you think we're a nation of more (percentage of population) and stronger believers? How about Europe, once a very christian area willing to crusade to the holy land and impose christian law. There are many non-religious countries over there that once were.

Or even look at the longer view. Would you say religion is more important to people today than it was a thousand or two thousand years ago?

 

[MongGrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyYS-GzBSIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kK1YgR7J0g

 

[Malak]

You don't know anything about me or what paths I've traveled to come to the conclusions I came to, yet you are claiming to know.

Every person that desires to know God will. Only the penitant man shall pass

 

[disappoint]

I do however believe in the existence of something greater than ourselves. The world and cosmos are too complex for me to accept that it all happened by pure chance. We may not understand what set things in motion, but I find it hard to believe that it was complete chance.

Really? The universe couldn't happen by complete chance but a creator that can create it can? Surely, as a scientist, you can see that the probability for a deity that must be more complex than the universe, to pop into existence from nothing is much lower than the probability for the universe to do so.

My belief is fueled by various questions that cannot be answered by science, such as:

This is called the God of the gaps fallacy. There was a time when people thought thunder and lightning was God displaying anger. Now you see it as silly only because you know what the real cause is. What happens when someone answers your questions someday? Will you call your past self silly? If you're really smart you'll quit filling in your lack of knowledge with "God did it" and just accept there are some things we don't know.

1. If the universe was created by the big bang, how and why was there a big lump of mass gathered in one spot in the first place? What came before that big lump of mass? How did that start?

Why is not the right question to ask. Asking why assumes there is a reason. There might not be.

What came before is also a nonsensical question. There is no before. The universe is space-time. Time began when the universe began, therefore there is no time before time began. Asking what happened before time is like asking where were you before you were born. You didn't exist then. If time didn't exist, it makes no sense to ask about what happened before it's existence.

 

[disappoint]

You don't know anything about me or what paths I've traveled to come to the conclusions I came to, yet you are claiming to know. Careful, you're getting close to sounding like a fortune telling sorceress. And as we all know, exodus 22:18 requires them to be put to death.

But god loves his creation.

LOL! So owned. We need a subforum called "Scientists corner", "Scientist hangout" or some such. Even non-scientists may ask questions but if they make statements that would put them to death by their own religion, they get permabanned from that subforum.

 

[SlowSpyder]

People get Darwin/Evolution all wrong on so many levels because they have no formal training in it and often no formal college education.

People still believe that Evolution is about everything all coming from some tadpole or worse just a rock.

It's no longer the belief really, there were probably a few 'trees' that things came from.

In theory, why wouldn't an extremely intelligent being not design an organism to change and adapt to it's environment instead of dying out.

The problem with that line of thinking is that it's more or less complete fantasy made up by people who see evolution can't be denied, but still want to believe in the bible. The bible clearly says how we came to be. If that isn't true, then what else isn't? If it is a story meant to teach, how do you know other parts are also, and not literal... like the entire story of jesus, or his miracles?

The thing to remember is we do not judge, God does. Why do you focus on fire and brimstone instead of God's love?

King James bible pdf.
http://www.ulc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/King-James-Bible-KJV-Bible-PDF.pdf

"Kill" and 'death' and 'smite' combined are mentioned more often than 'love'. Really, it is a very violent book.

Those parts of the bible have more impact on me. God created us. He claims to know us before we were born. He is omnipotent. Yet the vast majority of humanity is burning in hell for eternity if you believe the bible. (even today a big majority of the world is not christian... off to hell for being born in the wrong place or time losers!) And why are we going to hell? We were condemned because a woman I don't even believe existed at a piece of fruit, convinced by a magical snake because all powerful god made a mistake when it came to satan.

And if creating humanity flawed in a way worth of eternal hell wasn't a mistake (again), then wouldn't that make god a sadomasochist?

 

[disappoint]

I was raised a catholic and learned all about how much god hates his people.

What you learned was that people hate people, and projected their hate onto an imaginary being, so that they don't have to take responsibility for their hatred.

Those were very primitive people, and they deserve our pity, not scorn.

Now people who choose to learn from primitives when they have modern science available, maybe they deserve a pinch of scorn with a pot full of pity. Or vice-versa. Your choice.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

That's why I laugh at the wannabelievers, because you can pick out any verse from the big book of fairy tales to support what you want it to say and simultaneously ignore the 99% that is evil, violent or just plain inconvenient. Like attending services on holy days. That rule comes from your religion, not from me. Despite that little plum you plucked out of the bible to excuse your wanting to sleep in rather than getting up early to go to church, the majority of Christian sects require attending real services with real priests. Four drunks who call themselves Christians gathering together to watch football on Sunday most definitely does not count as attending mass and if you don't go to a real service with a real priest you're committing a mortal sin which will condemn you to hell if you die in that state. I most definitely understand things like this, I was raised a catholic and learned all about how much god hates his people. And please try to get this right, I don't believe that religious people know next to nothing, I believe that they know absolutely nothing. And your ignorance on the importance of attending REAL services to keep your soul out of hell proves it.




Because god created you in his own image and you're still a giant piece of shit that will be consigned to eternal torment unless you kiss his ass every Sunday. I'm not judging anyone, I'm merely repeating the message that Christianity teaches. Try to get that through your head, your supposedly infallible cosmic muffin created you to be just like him and yet he did such a crappy job that you're garbage. I'm not making that up, that's really one of the central tenets of Christianity. If you don't like it take it up with the invisible man in the sky, not me.

God didn't say anything about going to hell for not going to church on Sundays. So many mistaken people try to keep making the relationship with God about bargains. Do this and you'll be saved, do this and you'll go to hell. There is no quid pro quo, tit for tat or, agreement. God is the only one who judges. People created the practice of religion, not God. I'm sorry your exposure to Christianity has left you bitter and prone to antagonistic behavior when anyone talks about religion. Perhaps in the future, you will gain enough experience and, patience to learn not all Christians are the same.

You'll notice none of the believers posting in this thread have said you're going to hell for your lack of belief or, even for being an asswipe. :biggrin:

 

[stormkroe]

Well, in most cases you can teach critical thinking. Can't really do that when "teaching" someone to be religious.

If you're teaching religion, or anything for that matter, without a foundation of critical thinking, you're doing it wrong.
What would you say is the biggest component of religion that doesn't hold up to your critical thought?

 

[Ban Bot]

Try to get that through your head, your supposedly infallible cosmic muffin created you to be just like him and yet he did such a crappy job that you're garbage. I'm not making that up, that's really one of the central tenets of Christianity. If you don't like it take it up with the invisible man in the sky, not me.

Of course there is the little itsy bitsy detail missing between your two points (good creation, sinful humans) and that would be the nature of choice and mankind's election of sin. But let's not let details get in the way of a good rant!

I would politely point out that misconstruing an oppositional view only to vent, rant, lament, and belittle those you disagree with fails to progress discussion. It alienates the opposition and even if you conclusion was correct what it does is detract from the merits of any point you make as you draw more attention to your attitude and the obvious lack of respect you have for profitable exchange. If you cannot even be bothered or fairly represent the opponent there is little value in responding other than to increase vice.

I won't touch your "real services" and mass comment and real priests considering the majority of Acts is about Jewish believers who, when their observances are noted, are keeping the Sabbath in the Synagogue or in fellow believer's homes...

 

[Malak]

LOL! So owned. We need a subforum called "Scientists corner", "Scientist hangout" or some such. Even non-scientists may ask questions but if they make statements that would put them to death by their own religion, they get permabanned from that subforum.

There is nothing in my religion that puts someone to death.

 

[SlowSpyder]

God didn't say anything about going to hell for not going to church on Sundays. So many mistaken people try to keep making the relationship with God about bargains. Do this and you'll be saved, do this and you'll go to hell. There is no quid pro quo, tit for tat or, agreement. God is the only one who judges. People created the practice of religion, not God. I'm sorry your exposure to Christianity has left you bitter and prone to antagonistic behavior when anyone talks about religion. Perhaps in the future, you will gain enough experience and, patience to learn not all Christians are the same.

You'll notice none of the believers posting in this thread have said you're going to hell for your lack of belief or, even for being an asswipe. :biggrin:

You are absolutely 100% right that not all christians are the same. But I generally don't aim my disdain of religion towards christians themselves. Some, but not all. Many of the true believers I feel sorry for in fact. My anti-religion feelings (at least regarding christianity) are aimed squarely at the bible itself. It is a very violent book that teaches us that racism is fine, sexism should be the norm, killing people for different ideas or beliefs if ok or even encouraged, genocide of all of a people is ok, and much, much more. That's where so much hatred, evil, and corrupt morality stems from.

Ever wonder why a woman showing her nipple on TV is an outrage that deserves punishment from the government, but someone getting their head blown off is ok? I have.

There is nothing in my religion that puts someone to death.

Are you of a faith that follows the bible? Because if so, I'd argue there are things in your religion that would have someone put to death.

 

[alkemyst]

Are you of a faith that follows the bible? Because if so, I'd argue there are things in your religion that would have someone put to death.

There is a difference between the old and new testaments.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

You are absolutely 100% right that not all christians are the same. But I generally don't aim my disdain of religion towards christians themselves. Some, but not all. Many of the true believers I feel sorry for in fact. My anti-religion feelings (at least regarding christianity) are aimed squarely at the bible itself. It is a very violent book that teaches us that racism is fine, sexism should be the norm, killing people for different ideas or beliefs if ok or even encouraged, genocide of all of a people is ok, and much, much more. That's where so much hatred, evil, and corrupt morality stems from.

Ever wonder why a woman showing her nipple on TV is an outrage that deserves punishment from the government, but someone getting their head blown off is ok? I have.




Are you of a faith that follows the bible? Because if so, I'd argue there are things in your religion that would have someone put to death.

So you blame God for man's failings?