Welfare needs to go

[Emultra]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Louis Farrakhan shares the same opinion as you. He calls it a different form of slavery.

How does the government extract the money to pay for welfare? By asking for it, or through the use of force in the form of fines, imprisonment or death?

Define the term "slavery" and the answer is clear.

To think that the government will give handouts only to those who "need" it (how is that defined, and in what way does it change the nature of the means by which welfare money is extracted?) is foolish. If you condone the government's use of force against innocents, that use will spread like the plague and never stop until there is full socialism, even if it takes time.

You're complaining about how the state uses the money that they stole from an entire populace, at a larger scale than any concievable mafia organisation in history. Why do you act so surprised? Did you think they would be prudent in their spending of other people's money? Did you think prudence was anything but preposterous with regards to looting and plunder in the first place?

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Welfare is fine for people that need it. It also is not as easy to get as some people think.
My dad for example. He gets $1100 a month social security. That is his only income. Out of that he has to pay $100 medicare premium, $450 rent, $200 utilities, $200 prescription/oxygen cost, $100 copays for doctor visits. That leaves him nothing for food or clothing or things like soap, paper towels, etc. He does not qualify for any aid from the state. He is 79 years old so I doubt he is able to get a job, seeing as he is on oxygen as well.

What I hate is the laws concerning illegals. If you are pregnant , you can come here with 3 children , no husband, and have that child here. The child is now a USA citizen and so the mother and her now 4 children get full benefits from the state. That includes all medical, food , and housing. Things my father cannot get even though he worked for over 50 years.

He might be eligible for food stamps, depending on the state he lives in. Also, if he's a veteran, he might be entitled to a small veteran's pension for those veterans making under about $12,000 a year or so. It wouldn't be much. VA health care is also an option. I get my asthma meds from the VA for about $20 a month.

Anyway, the states are really strapped for money, so they are tightening up on a lot of the aid to the poor and elderly. The OP is probably living in a bunker in Utah with his 8 wives, automatic rifle collection, and bible signed by Will Smith.

-Robert

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
When is this shit going to end? All it does is allow the lazy to continue to sit on their asses and be non productive members of our society. Their sole purpose in life is to make sure they collect their god damn welfare check. They then instill it in their kids to do the same and so they continue to produce these generations of fuck ups.

Damn, either you're a mean, cold assed fsck or a dumb fsck! Even before our current record unemployment, what makes you think everyone who is qualified to work can find work? What makes you such a cold hearted prick that you wouldn't help the ill, disabled and homeless who would love to work if they could.

Over-generously assuming you ever had any humanity, exactly where did you leave it? :roll:

Bah freaking humbug! Here's wishing you not even a stinking, shit covered, burning lump of coal in your holiday stocking. :thumbsdown:

Its not normal for qualified people to be out of work for 20 years, or an entire lifetime. I think thats the point the OP meant, not the people who are really truly trying.

you can only collect welfare for i think 6 years.

 

[Moonbeam]

Competition is hate and hate is self hate. Self hate creates competition and the greatest self haters are best at the competition. The objective of winning is to have somebody you can feel superior to because you feel so worthless inside.

The best reason to love your neighbor is because he is you and when you love him you love yourself. But the self hater will never understand this. To know God you have to lose because only losers are close to him.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: gevorg
I totally agree that welfare needs changes/reforms to get rid of many lazy bastards that are bottom feeding from it. But what about ones who truly need it to survive (disabled, veterans, single moms, etc)?

the disabled qualify for social security.

 

[5150Joker]

Welfare, social security, medicaid, medicare all that bullshit needs to go. Military spending needs to be cut in half (with all troops recalled and the US becoming isolationist) while investment in infrastructure and education should be tripled. Of course I can only dream..

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Howard
I'd approve of a make-work program that mostly supplants welfare; if you can't make a living, work for the government. Of course, if you're physically impaired, I wouldn't mind if financial assistance were available to you.

i thin in general this is a good concept, and has existed before in the civil conservation corps (i think) which was struck down as unconstitutional in the 30's. Conincidentally, much of what we now use in out national parks was built buy the CCC.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Welfare, social security, medicaid, medicare all that bullshit needs to go. Military spending needs to be cut in half (with all troops recalled and the US becoming isolationist) while investment in infrastructure and education should be tripled. Of course I can only dream..

Sure, a Modest Proposal, eh? We should also cut off all the pensions of the Veterans who damned near died for wars brought to us by the last ten presidents.

Social Security should definitely go. All those old people could be shot economically, I'm sure.

Good thinking, boy. You'll go far.

-Robert

 

[conehead433]

Social Security is not welfare, at least for most. Workers pay into the system and get SS as a benefit when they reach retirement age. It's only welfare for those collecting disability SS.
And not all receiving welfare are undeserving. Granted a large portion should be kicked off of welfare, but there are always consequences.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
When is this shit going to end? All it does is allow the lazy to continue to sit on their asses and be non productive members of our society. Their sole purpose in life is to make sure they collect their god damn welfare check. They then instill it in their kids to do the same and so they continue to produce these generations of fuck ups.

Damn, either you're a mean, cold assed fsck or a dumb fsck! Even before our current record unemployment, what makes you think everyone who is qualified to work can find work? What makes you such a cold hearted prick that you wouldn't help the ill, disabled and homeless who would love to work if they could.

Over-generously assuming you ever had any humanity, exactly where did you leave it? :roll:

Bah freaking humbug! Here's wishing you not even a stinking, shit covered, burning lump of coal in your holiday stocking. :thumbsdown:

Record unemployment, heh. 6% is record, right.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
When is this shit going to end? All it does is allow the lazy to continue to sit on their asses and be non productive members of our society. Their sole purpose in life is to make sure they collect their god damn welfare check. They then instill it in their kids to do the same and so they continue to produce these generations of fuck ups.

edit: I'm talking about the perfectly healthy fuck ups that abuse the system. I have no problem with our government helping out the disabled.

You accuse others of what you do?? 90% CHANCE, RIGHT!!

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: conehead433
Social Security is not welfare, at least for most. Workers pay into the system and get SS as a benefit when they reach retirement age. It's only welfare for those collecting disability SS.And not all receiving welfare are undeserving. Granted a large portion should be kicked off of welfare, but there are always consequences.

The bolded part is wrong. Social Security Disability is NOT a form of welfare. It does allow people to collect the Social Security benefits they're entitled to before "retirement age," but nothing more.

You're thinking of "SSI" which is supplemental security income...very similar to welfare, and is the program that is so loved by druggies.

 

[Xecuter]

Originally posted by: bctbct
pfft, corporate welfare is sucking us dry not the lazy people.

/thread

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Xecuter

Originally posted by: bctbct
pfft, corporate welfare is sucking us dry not the lazy people.

/thread

I don't see this as an either/or matter, nor do I see medicaid as an inherent evil. I DO see that something has to change because as I said we're getting hammered.

I don't think many people understand how this works in the real world. Medicaid is a largely unfunded mandate. States MUST provide services, but the federal govt isn't obliged to pay for them. They kick in a bit of course, but the vast majority falls to the states, which in turn gets passed on to the individual counties in most cases.

In my county, our budget was about 900 million dollars. Of that 35% was for medicaid. That however isn't accurate, because the budget takes some "health costs" as being separate , although they are not. The true expenditures are almost half of our entire budget.

It's easy to say that medicaid is "free" if the federal government say that states have to fund the entire program without any monies from federal tax dollars. It would also be a lie.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
These are but a few handpicked examples. Conservatives have been out to destroy the work of FDR and of course LBJs great society by defunding/corrupting them and then of course pointing out that they do not work for ages.
Where have you been for the past few decades?

Yeah they talk about this but where is the beef? So called conservatives held power for 4 years 2002-2006 and still couldnt get rid of the public endowment of the arts.

The lack of the Conservative party fulfilling killing such programs off and "shrinking the government" is just another example that the foundations of Conservative philosophy is impossible and contradictory to a functioning society.

You are contradicting yourself. If there is no conservative party fufilling the role of gutting the welfare state then how can you claim conservatives have derailed the welfare state?

In reality it has been a way to make big business rich through corruption then try to point the finger at Liberal philosophy as the cause of the failures (the red scare/fall of the SU helped a bit too).

This is where the delusion on the left starts. The corruption you see is a by product of the very systems that are implemented. Look through history. Find a time where big govt and corruption didnt walk hand in hand.

You can only fool people for so long before the house of cards come down and rational compromises must be made to keep the state functioning such as in the case in the cherry-picked programs you used as an example backed by Bush.

This statement is very ironic.

There is a reason that until Reagan (and sometimes back into Nixon era) the radical market-libertarian mindset of Goldwater/Ayn Randian philosophies were fringe in the Republican party. It is naive idealism, no better then using Communism as a model for a society and just as destined to fail.

And please show us where libertarian values were ever applied? When Reagan,Bush I and II grew the size of govt and deficits? Or are you talking about Clinton and his "real" reform to welfare?

 

[Xavier434]

Never. You can either suck it up and get used to it or you can remain angry the rest of your life. Easy choice.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Short Term Unemployment is acceptable to me, long term welfare is not.

Everyone needs help once in a while, but to me it should be as minimal as possible to promote personal responsibility.

[edit]I hope government prjects start so welfare goes and workfare enters[/edit]

Senior Moderator vs Elite Senior Moderator wars are fun to watch though.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Tab
I don't understand the whole "movement" against those on welfare or welfare in general. Do they know anyone on welfare? I can assure you it isn't anyone sitting on their ass, doing drugs or whatever. Anyone who wants welfare at least in the state of North Dakota must prove for the last three months they've been looking for a job with verification. If it's a medical leave they must get verification from three doctors every three months - which now include drug tests. Even if they some how managed to get on welfare, it's only a about ~$1k per month. How the hell does anyone live on that or mooch?

Anyway, continue your crusade. I'll be looking at real money moochers like this whole Iraq war thing...

North Dakota? Probably not too many public housing projects up there. You've got a small population up there and more people are self-reliant. The policy towards welfare in North Dakota should be that way every where... but frankly there are probably not enough resources to police that. THis is what enables people to live in public housing, get $1000 month in welfare. food stamps, and make it a lifestyle rather than looking for gainful employment.

 

[StageLeft]

Although you are right, these indolent clowns will, if the last bits of money are taken away, potentially resort to worse activities than sitting on their fat ass all day, which could be an increase in criminality, so in a way they're being paid a stipend to sit at home and sh*t out kids/watch soaps all day instead of worse.

<- feel the :heart:

 

[Moonbeam]

The welfare problem will never be addressed because the underlying issue of self hate will not be faced.

People who hate themselves are insane. They feel they deserve what others have worked for or they pat themselves on the back to extreme for what they accomplish and ridicule others for lack of effort in not having the same because it makes they feel even more superior.

Welfare is self hate as I said above. We create the system that produces winners and losers instead of a society of love because we are all deeply sick and will not see it.

The answer to welfare, like the answer to every other problem in the world, is to have self respect. Only you can acquire your own real self respect because only you can relive and reverse the traumatic events in your childhood that caused you to hate yourself, and only you can face your own denial. Nobody can ever make you see. The world is dying because you can't do that. You are killing the world, nobody else, because the only thing you can change is you. You will never change because you are afraid to face what happened, to know what you really feel, even though all you have to do is feel it.

So what do people do. Some blame victims, they become the put down artist who kills the psyche of others. Some become defenders of victims and pretend the victim is not responsible for his own recovery.

People who need, who are the most down, are dangerous, vicious, and hungry. They are takers who think only of themselves. They are the mirror image of the vicious who put them down. They are vacuum sucking on vacuums.

You can't help others until you have saved yourself. Only then will you be clear and know what to do.

But to help people you have to allow them to help themselves. Everything you do to make yourself better adds to the good of the soul. It makes you feel a bit better and more confident. It is self love. It doesn't cure self hate, but it weakens the feeling of certainty that one is worthless, how we actually feel.

So all social programs require that those receiving benefits work or contribute something to get them and not be aware they are being given therapy of this kind.

You can help people only when they don't see that as the intention. People need opportunities to shine at something, to help others, to be a part of something, to feel wanted, to have something to give.

We are all God. You are an infinite being of light that has been destroyed by hate as a child. Instead of finding your true selves you fatten your egos in a sick system.

Every person is God. Love others so the love of God shines out of you. You are the solution to everything. God is only when YOU are real.

 

[HomerJS]

Let's start with the largest welfare component. Corporate or AFDC?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The welfare problem will never be addressed because the underlying issue of self hate will not be faced.

People who hate themselves are insane. They feel they deserve what others have worked for or they pat themselves on the back to extreme for what they accomplish and ridicule others for lack of effort in not having the same because it makes they feel even more superior.

Welfare is self hate as I said above. We create the system that produces winners and losers instead of a society of love because we are all deeply sick and will not see it.

The answer to welfare, like the answer to every other problem in the world, is to have self respect. Only you can acquire your own real self respect because only you can relive and reverse the traumatic events in your childhood that caused you to hate yourself, and only you can face your own denial. Nobody can ever make you see. The world is dying because you can't do that. You are killing the world, nobody else, because the only thing you can change is you. You will never change because you are afraid to face what happened, to know what you really feel, even though all you have to do is feel it.

So what do people do. Some blame victims, they become the put down artist who kills the psyche of others. Some become defenders of victims and pretend the victim is not responsible for his own recovery.

People who need, who are the most down, are dangerous, vicious, and hungry. They are takers who think only of themselves. They are the mirror image of the vicious who put them down. They are vacuum sucking on vacuums.

You can't help others until you have saved yourself. Only then will you be clear and know what to do.

But to help people you have to allow them to help themselves. Everything you do to make yourself better adds to the good of the soul. It makes you feel a bit better and more confident. It is self love. It doesn't cure self hate, but it weakens the feeling of certainty that one is worthless, how we actually feel.

So all social programs require that those receiving benefits work or contribute something to get them and not be aware they are being given therapy of this kind.

You can help people only when they don't see that as the intention. People need opportunities to shine at something, to help others, to be a part of something, to feel wanted, to have something to give.

We are all God. You are an infinite being of light that has been destroyed by hate as a child. Instead of finding your true selves you fatten your egos in a sick system.

Every person is God. Love others so the love of God shines out of you. You are the solution to everything. God is only when YOU are real.

What do you do professional; how do you make a living?

And, yes, I read your post.

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
NOBODY wants small government, they want THEIR government.

Wrong, I'm for a small government. Only as large as needed to do those things that only the government can do (like national defense).

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
Medicare could be trimmed with UHC I bet it would be the same or about the same with good coverage for all.

Actually, your socialist utiopa UHC would be more like "horrible red tape health care for all", and it wouldn't decrease the cost, it would increase the total costs as an enormous government department would get added.

Spending money on people who need temporary assistance or who can't fend for themselves is great. Spending money on those who are too lazy to work is not. All those in the latter group should get nothing, I don't care if they eat or not.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The welfare problem will never be addressed because the underlying issue of self hate will not be faced.

People who hate themselves are insane. They feel they deserve what others have worked for or they pat themselves on the back to extreme for what they accomplish and ridicule others for lack of effort in not having the same because it makes they feel even more superior.

Welfare is self hate as I said above. We create the system that produces winners and losers instead of a society of love because we are all deeply sick and will not see it.

The answer to welfare, like the answer to every other problem in the world, is to have self respect. Only you can acquire your own real self respect because only you can relive and reverse the traumatic events in your childhood that caused you to hate yourself, and only you can face your own denial. Nobody can ever make you see. The world is dying because you can't do that. You are killing the world, nobody else, because the only thing you can change is you. You will never change because you are afraid to face what happened, to know what you really feel, even though all you have to do is feel it.

So what do people do. Some blame victims, they become the put down artist who kills the psyche of others. Some become defenders of victims and pretend the victim is not responsible for his own recovery.

People who need, who are the most down, are dangerous, vicious, and hungry. They are takers who think only of themselves. They are the mirror image of the vicious who put them down. They are vacuum sucking on vacuums.

You can't help others until you have saved yourself. Only then will you be clear and know what to do.

But to help people you have to allow them to help themselves. Everything you do to make yourself better adds to the good of the soul. It makes you feel a bit better and more confident. It is self love. It doesn't cure self hate, but it weakens the feeling of certainty that one is worthless, how we actually feel.

So all social programs require that those receiving benefits work or contribute something to get them and not be aware they are being given therapy of this kind.

You can help people only when they don't see that as the intention. People need opportunities to shine at something, to help others, to be a part of something, to feel wanted, to have something to give.

We are all God. You are an infinite being of light that has been destroyed by hate as a child. Instead of finding your true selves you fatten your egos in a sick system.

Every person is God. Love others so the love of God shines out of you. You are the solution to everything. God is only when YOU are real.

What do you do professional; how do you make a living?

And, yes, I read your post.

You ask for information, I want to give you understanding. That implies that I know something you do not. Right away, in a competitive world, that sets up a contest, one that I don't want to win or be in.

As part of my special understanding, I see things not normally seen and that includes seeing things in your question you may not wish to believe.

I have suggested we are in a state of denial as to what we feel. That can mean you don't know what why you asked about my profession. What does it matter. I have said over and over that I am a nobody.

But suppose I want to help you and I'm a world renowned scholar in the field of psychology in an Ivy League, but you have a bias against college professors. As soon as you know I'm one a wall goes up, a bias makes what I say suspect. Or perhaps I'm a mailman and now you find escape in the fact I'm an ignorant gov employee with a socialist wage who can't possibly know anything.

I have seen that this is how people are. They judge you by superficials. Think what possible difference it could make how I make a living as it relates to what I know. Jesus was a carpenter and so are a lot of assholes. The Buddha was the son of a king.

Truth is justice itself. It can't be given to the unworthy or kept from any who are.

Every stick has two ends. I take the end that has the shit so you can have the end untainted by my personal information. I remain data-less so you have a mirror that reflects.

But I find it completely accurate to say that I am a nobody. So if the real motive of your question is to put me in a box, I'll take the one marked 'nobody'. The sun that shine on me and warms my skin is the same sun and the same warmth you feel. We are all the same and we are all God.