Welfare needs to go

[ebaycj]

Also, just in case nobody realizes: Welfare is NOT the same thing as Unemployment.

 

[DaveSimmons]

It's too bad when anyone brings up mandatory contraceptive implants for those receiving welfare it's called "racist" and "genocidal."

It's not, it's classist. White trash would get the implants too.

 

[Eeezee]

Let's all remember that Joe the Plumber was a welfare recipient. Go Joe!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
It's too bad when anyone brings up mandatory contraceptive implants for those receiving welfare it's called "racist" and "genocidal."

It's not, it's classist. White trash would get the implants too.

In NY state, welfare is crushing us economically. In our county, they've had to divert funding from education to make up the latest shortfall. It's killing us. So reform? Well, no. We were told that despite our situation reworking welfare was out of the question. Welfare recipients are a huge political force, and any politician who dares to mention reform is tarred and feathered as a racist and ruined for life.

I work in inner city settings, and I know without doubt that many single women get pregnant, because in their minds it's profitable. That's damned wrong. I'd love to run as a one term official (and I certainly would never be relected) and put a broom or a shovel in the hands of everyone who is able to work if they want a dime. You won't hear of that because it's beneath the dignity of those who's sole career goal is a check from the state.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
OK, you do have a point which I tend to agree with. Now can we just cut off the ones who have been scamming the system for 3 generations? What about the illegals who come over and pop out a few kids? Do you think they are entitled to work the system the way they do?

There are a few classes involved here.
1. True needy who cannot work
2. Temporary needy who can work but can't find it.
3. Scum bags who are capable of work but won't do it ever and haven't for the last 15 years, doing just as their family before them. Get that government cheese! No need to work for anything. Let the man support you. :roll:

I think the op is critical of #3

You'd have a point, but the OP doesn't seem to care about cases 1 and 2 and would rather kill the whole system to spite group 3.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
It's too bad when anyone brings up mandatory contraceptive implants for those receiving welfare it's called "racist" and "genocidal."

It's not, it's classist. White trash would get the implants too.

In NY state, welfare is crushing us economically. In our county, they've had to divert funding from education to make up the latest shortfall. It's killing us. So reform? Well, no. We were told that despite our situation reworking welfare was out of the question. Welfare recipients are a huge political force, and any politician who dares to mention reform is tarred and feathered as a racist and ruined for life.

I work in inner city settings, and I know without doubt that many single women get pregnant, because in their minds it's profitable. That's damned wrong. I'd love to run as a one term official (and I certainly would never be relected) and put a broom or a shovel in the hands of everyone who is able to work if they want a dime. You won't hear of that because it's beneath the dignity of those who's sole career goal is a check from the state.

You got anything to back that up? I don't know about you but to me your post smells real bad...

 

[alphatarget1]

I was under the impression that welfare contributes very little to the budget...

With that said, some sort of social safety net is needed so that when people get laid off they have something to fall back on. This, however, should not be used by lazy people to get by.

I personally see no difference in a corporate crook who scams millions, sometimes billions of $$$ from shareholders + taxpayers and a thug who sells drugs and do drive-bys. If we're going to reform welfare, how about starting from the top first? Like confiscating all of Citigroup's board members' personal wealth? Wishful thinking, I know.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

http://www.saltytexan.com/atta...ntid=7048&d=1227206837

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
It's too bad when anyone brings up mandatory contraceptive implants for those receiving welfare it's called "racist" and "genocidal."

It's not, it's classist. White trash would get the implants too.

In NY state, welfare is crushing us economically. In our county, they've had to divert funding from education to make up the latest shortfall. It's killing us. So reform? Well, no. We were told that despite our situation reworking welfare was out of the question. Welfare recipients are a huge political force, and any politician who dares to mention reform is tarred and feathered as a racist and ruined for life.

I work in inner city settings, and I know without doubt that many single women get pregnant, because in their minds it's profitable. That's damned wrong. I'd love to run as a one term official (and I certainly would never be relected) and put a broom or a shovel in the hands of everyone who is able to work if they want a dime. You won't hear of that because it's beneath the dignity of those who's sole career goal is a check from the state.

You got anything to back that up? I don't know about you but to me your post smells real bad...

I've heard about it before.

 

[Steeplerot]

Yeah, that's the ticket, lets cut off all these progarms, starting with:
Roads (just encourages fat asses to drive instead of walk.),
Bridges (too lazy to learn to swim?),
Clean drinking water (boil your own water you leech!)
Military, (get your own gun or learn another language lardasses)
Food quality inspection (cook your food well done you mooch!)
Drug inspection (don't get sick you weakling!)
Bank regulation (too lazy to steal from them first? What kind of capitalist are you?)
Wastewater treatment (your shit is your own problem, yuck!)
Law enforcement (what are you a coward?)
Mail (too lazy to carry a little ass envelope? too bad!)
Social security (old people are useless anyhow, they already made decent wage slaves so its time to die)
Schools (what do you need to read for? You into poetry or something you sissy boy?)

This is such a stupid line of thinking, mostly from folks who are supported by mommy and daddy anyhow. Or ironically from redder states that suck up more taxes then they produce. Sure there are a few people who game the system, but mostly welfare is too much of a hassle compared to just gettiing a job. So easy to blame the folks who cannot help themselves, you all are beneath contempt.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
Yeah, that's the ticket, lets cut off all these progarms, starting with:
Roads (just encourages fat asses to drive instead of walk.),
Bridges (too lazy to learn to swim?),
Clean drinking water (boil your own water you leech!)
Military, (get your own gun or learn another language lardasses)
Food quality inspection (cook your food well done you mooch!)
Drug inspection (don't get sick you weakling!)
Bank regulation (too lazy to steal from them first? What kind of capitalist are you?)
Wastewater treatment (your shit is your own problem, yuck!)
Law enforcement (what are you a coward?)
Mail (too lazy to carry a little ass envelope? too bad!)
Social security (old people are useless anyhow, they already made decent wage slaves so its time to die)
Schools (what do you need to read for? You into poetry or something you sissy boy?)

This is such a stupid line of thinking, mostly from folks who are supported by mommy and daddy anyhow. Or ironically from redder states that suck up more taxes then they produce. Sure there are a few people who game the system, but mostly welfare is too much of a hassle compared to just gettiing a job. So easy to blame the folks who cannot help themselves, you all are beneath contempt.

I think you hit the nail exactly on the head. Political viewpoints like those expressed by Zeppelin2282 seem more based on ridiculous caricatures than actual reality or reasonable argument. Maybe it IS worth getting rid of welfare, but not because some people have a strawman idea of the typical welfare recipient.

 

[Slew Foot]

Id be all for getting rid of welfare, as long as it included bailouts to banks as well as checks to crack addicts.

 

[idiotekniQues]

it gave joe the white plumber's family a chance to bounce back so they could then rail against the very types of benefits that saved their asses

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Id be all for getting rid of welfare, as long as it included bailouts to banks as well as checks to crack addicts.

I don't get this all or nothing idea of welfare. I think we can all agree that there are bad examples of people (and corporations) that probably don't deserve a handout. But why should that translate, as people like Zeppelin2282 suggest, into totally getting rid of the entire concept? I suppose if everyone who received welfare is undeserving of a little help, he'd have a point...but I see no such argument being made. Why not argue for stricter requirements for the program instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

 

[Howard]

I'd approve of a make-work program that mostly supplants welfare; if you can't make a living, work for the government. Of course, if you're physically impaired, I wouldn't mind if financial assistance were available to you.

 

[Genx87]

The best thing Clinton did during his term was welfare reform. Took a nice % off the rolls within the first 18 months.

 

[Steeplerot]

The answer is simple, the problem is this Goldwater era notion of less government. (and the basis of modern conservatism) Less Government is NOT THE ANSWER. Efficient and transparent government that answers to the people is.
If we have accountability the government will have to trim the fat anyhow. And programs that need to be bigger will be able to grow. As much as some people have been raised with the conservative mantra of make the government so small it can be drowned in the bathtub big problems need big solutions. That is just the way it is.
The old phrase cutting your nose off despite your face seems to have escaped conservatives. And is why they are so terrible at governing.

In reality it is basically an excuse to be corrupt since all government is inherently evil anyhow, so why not go on the take?
The whole anti-welfare thing is just thinly veiled racism for some, and a sort of twisted class warfare jealousy by most for getting to scam the "evil" system when they cannot.
Anyhow, my 2c critique of what is so dysfunctional about conservatism. Take it as you will.

Edit: Christianity has a bit to do with the hate of the system also, since Fundamentalist Christianity view governments as creations of man that answer to no one. Makes sense since a lot of Conservatives mix Fundamentalist Christianity dogma with their politics.
(Not that liberals do not use altruism from the teachings of Christ also in their politics, -just sayin)

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
The answer is simple, the problem is this Goldwater era notion of less government. (and the basis of modern conservatism) Less Government is NOT THE ANSWER. Efficient and transparent government that answers to the people is.
If we have accountability the government will have to trim the fat anyhow. And programs that need to be bigger will be able to grow. As much as some people have been raised with the conservative mantra of make the government so small it can be drowned in the bathtub big problems need big solutions. That is just the way it is.
The old phrase cutting your nose off despite your face seems to have escaped conservatives. And is why they are so terrible at governing.

In reality it is basically an excuse to be corrupt since all government is inherently evil anyhow, so why not go on the take?
The whole anti-welfare thing is just thinly veiled racism for some, and a sort of twisted class warfare jealousy by most for getting to scam the "evil" system when they cannot.
Anyhow, my 2c critique of what is so dysfunctional about conservatism. Take it as you will.

That is a funny response considering Goldwater ran before the LBJ's great society which implemented the giant govt welfare state we have today. The problem isnt conservatism and its desire for less govt intervention. The problem is the giant govt that backs the welfare state. Funny how the left will always try to pin the failings of their own instutions on the right. It never fails.

If you think govt is so small why does it consume on the federal level nearly 25% of our GDP? If you include the states it pushes a third of our GDP. Compare that to 70 years ago, hell compare it to the JFK era. There hasnt been a serious small govt push in decades. No matter how much you want to believe it.

edit: I had to add your quip about christianity. In case you didnt notice many liberal faiths are the one pushing the welfare state. What they cant collect on Sundays they want the govt collect forecfully to help the poor.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
When is this shit going to end? All it does is allow the lazy to continue to sit on their asses and be non productive members of our society. Their sole purpose in life is to make sure they collect their god damn welfare check. They then instill it in their kids to do the same and so they continue to produce these generations of fuck ups.

Damn, either you're a mean, cold assed fsck or a dumb fsck! Even before our current record unemployment, what makes you think everyone who is qualified to work can find work? What makes you such a cold hearted prick that you wouldn't help the ill, disabled and homeless who would love to work if they could.

Over-generously assuming you ever had any humanity, exactly where did you leave it? :roll:

Bah freaking humbug! Here's wishing you not even a stinking, shit covered, burning lump of coal in your holiday stocking. :thumbsdown:

Its not normal for qualified people to be out of work for 20 years, or an entire lifetime. I think thats the point the OP meant, not the people who are really truly trying.

How long are people on welfare? Got a chart showing that? Why don't you check your facts before you and the OP comment on the topic?

Is it most people who are on it for a decade and longer?

Or is it mostly people who are on it for relatively short periods between work?

If you don't know, you don't have a lot to say about it.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87


edit: I had to add your quip about christianity. In case you didnt notice many liberal faiths are the one pushing the welfare state. What they cant collect on Sundays they want the govt collect forecfully to help the poor.

I did edit that in the name of fairness to mention Liberals altruism that is probably based off the teachings of Christ. Your notion of "forcefully pushing" is borderline libertarian silliness though.

Funny how you can still see the religious divide in the parties even though it has pretty much gone out of style to consider others actual religious denominations anymore socially?
Dems = Catholics who are all about altruism
Reps = Protestants who are all about fear mongering and their god being a big badass above all "worldy institutions" (IE satan).

Silly factoid: You know when a Liberal gets called "Bleeding Heart" it is a old slur against Catholics?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
I was under the impression that welfare contributes very little to the budget...

With that said, some sort of social safety net is needed so that when people get laid off they have something to fall back on. This, however, should not be used by lazy people to get by.

I personally see no difference in a corporate crook who scams millions, sometimes billions of $$$ from shareholders + taxpayers and a thug who sells drugs and do drive-bys. If we're going to reform welfare, how about starting from the top first? Like confiscating all of Citigroup's board members' personal wealth? Wishful thinking, I know.

It's called Unemployment. It lasts 6 months, maximum. It pays out up to $1480 per month depending on your salary over the past 4 quarters.

Here in Illinois, all employers are required to pay into the system based mainly on their payroll. For them it's structured like an insurance policy, claims against them raise their premiums. This provides at least some incentive for companies to only fire who they have to.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
It's too bad when anyone brings up mandatory contraceptive implants for those receiving welfare it's called "racist" and "genocidal."

It's not, it's classist. White trash would get the implants too.

In NY state, welfare is crushing us economically. In our county, they've had to divert funding from education to make up the latest shortfall. It's killing us. So reform? Well, no. We were told that despite our situation reworking welfare was out of the question. Welfare recipients are a huge political force, and any politician who dares to mention reform is tarred and feathered as a racist and ruined for life.

I work in inner city settings, and I know without doubt that many single women get pregnant, because in their minds it's profitable. That's damned wrong. I'd love to run as a one term official (and I certainly would never be relected) and put a broom or a shovel in the hands of everyone who is able to work if they want a dime. You won't hear of that because it's beneath the dignity of those who's sole career goal is a check from the state.

You got anything to back that up? I don't know about you but to me your post smells real bad...

You want a tape recording?
I've heard women discussing their pregnancies, and were glad because having a baby meant more money. This happened more than once. Is it universal? No, however the attitude is nothing that anyone seemed ashamed of. That's what stinks. Try to build in accountability, at least in NY and you'll be crucified.

I don't advocate eliminating welfare programs, but you can't even hope for any reform at all. It's a Sacred Cow.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
When is this shit going to end? All it does is allow the lazy to continue to sit on their asses and be non productive members of our society. Their sole purpose in life is to make sure they collect their god damn welfare check. They then instill it in their kids to do the same and so they continue to produce these generations of fuck ups.

Damn, either you're a mean, cold assed fsck or a dumb fsck! Even before our current record unemployment, what makes you think everyone who is qualified to work can find work? What makes you such a cold hearted prick that you wouldn't help the ill, disabled and homeless who would love to work if they could.

Over-generously assuming you ever had any humanity, exactly where did you leave it? :roll:

Bah freaking humbug! Here's wishing you not even a stinking, shit covered, burning lump of coal in your holiday stocking. :thumbsdown:

Its not normal for qualified people to be out of work for 20 years, or an entire lifetime. I think thats the point the OP meant, not the people who are really truly trying.

How long are people on welfare? Got a chart showing that? Why don't you check your facts before you and the OP comment on the topic?

Is it most people who are on it for a decade and longer?

Or is it mostly people who are on it for relatively short periods between work?

If you don't know, you don't have a lot to say about it.

Over 1 year: Welfare

Under 1 year: Unemployment

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87


If you think govt is so small

Never said it was. It is huge, your point?

Originally posted by: Genx87
why does it consume on the federal level nearly 25% of our GDP? If you include the states it pushes a third of our GDP. Compare that to 70 years ago, hell compare it to the JFK era.

Like I said, big problems need big solutions, compare the population growth of this country and volia. No commie conspiracy to grow the government, I would not expect any different seeing as how much bigger the country is would you?

Originally posted by: Genx87
There hasnt been a serious small govt push in decades. No matter how much you want to believe it.

Never said there was, wouldn't make sense if there was either unless we hit another huge depression, which we have not had mostly thanks to FDR.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
All it does is allow the lazy to continue to sit on their asses and be non productive members of our society

49 million americans have disabilities. 30 million of those are severe. What do you have in mind for them? Bullet in the back of the head?