Welcome to socialized medicine!!! Can't wait!

[ElFenix]

I should have been more specific. The state level orgs, such as "Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan" and "BCBS of California" (the one Obama mentioned by name) along with 30+ others, are in fact non-profit. But yeah, some of the execs at these orgs have excessive compensation for a non profit, but some states have capped that.

according to the wikipedia entry, Blue Shield CA is non-profit, but Blue Cross CA is actually WelPoint.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Your FSA? If health care was right there wouldn't ever be a need for FSA's. The fact that people even need FSA's show how fucked up the system is.

So:

FSAs exist because the system is fucked up, but what's proposed doesn't begin to cover the difference so it's more fucked up yet.

Or:

You are screwed, but don't worry the solution is going to screw you more.

Want to run that by again?

 

[Train]

according to the wikipedia entry, Blue Shield CA is non-profit, but Blue Cross CA is actually WelPoint.

well shit.

 

[theeedude]

Do you not understand fillibuster proof majority in the senate and almost 2/3rds in house? There was not a single thing republicans could have done to stop anything the democrats wanted.

They stopped the public option.

 

[Lemon law]

The USA is the only industrialized nation on Earth without a basic socialized medicine system, and every country that has gone to socialized medicine has found it drops overall health care costs.

On the other hand we can ask the quality questions, granted the USA has some of the best health care, but when only the very few can afford that highest quality level, we have a problem.

The other thing to point out is that only the USA will pay for the net health care costs of American citizens, what is being debated here is who pays those costs. Since Private insurance companies derive their profits as a percentage of every medical service, they have a disencentive to drive down costs and every encentive to drive up the complexcity of the paperwork. As a result medical fraud is rampant and since all insurance compaies don't standard forms, its almost impossible to police.

We all heard the mantra that government bureauocracu is inefficent, but its equally true in private business.

We sure did not get a very good health care reform bill IMHO, but at least its a start, and a template that can later be improved on.

Of course the other problem is that our employer based health care system that worked well in the 1960's and 1970's no longer works at all today. By the early 1980's it became
clear an employer based health care system was unsustainable, and its far more true today.

 

[bfdd]

We have a re-enrollment meeting at the end of this week. I'm under the impression that the rates will be going up...will be interesting.

Ours is the second week of November and it's the same deal, we're pretty sure they're going up(we heard a rumor from a C about this).

 

[GTaudiophile]

Mine went up from $227/month to $256/month...about 13%.

I wish my salary did that every year.

 

[TheBlank84]

Bullshit spidey you lying POS, keep your fabrications in >>>> P&N

Like the OP, we just started open enrollment for this year and instead of ours going up like it has every year, it went down a whopping $2 a paycheck, same exact coverage and co-pays. Nothing to cheer about but it's better than it having gone up. Dental went up though.

Interesting, seeing as the healthcare offered through my company just went up 40 bucks a month... and went from a $500 deductible to $1200...

Oh, and they no longer cover my medication in it's long release form seeing as there isn't a generic version. I have to pay out of pocket until my deductible is used or go to the take twice daily generic version that doesn't work as well.

And my parents are on a healthcare plan offered through my Dad's retirement package... they just informed them they will no longer cover certain cancer meds (my mother is battling) and that their premiums have just increased as well. Overall, they are now paying almost double what they were supposed to be paying. All of this was communicated to them in a letter explaining the changes that would be occurring due to the new law.

Definitely doesn't seem better to me...

 

[Scotteq]

My company just had our meetings to go over upcoming changes. For the next year, our benefits are static and there *will* be higher costs out of pocket. But the company is increasing their contribution slightly by way of an HSA (FSA with a different name) in order to offset part of this year's additional costs. Employees who either don't get sick - or like me have to be carried to the hospital before seeing a Doctor - are allowed to roll forward their FSA. Employees with existing/ongoing health costs.. are.. well... Fucked with a low double digit %~age increase for both Care and Prescriptions.

This is NOT due to the upcoming Government Mandated Healthcare changes. Please see below for detail on that.



*************

Regarding Healthcare:


If you look at the legislation - You'll see the many of the benefits are Front~Loaded, and the real costs come later.


http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/health-care-reform-rollout-timetable

2010 Provisions

Calendar year 2010

•Tax credit assistanceSmall businesses are eligible for a 35% tax credit; non-profits may receive up to a 25% credit.
•Medicare Part D "donut hole" begins to close. Seniors receive a $250 rebate for prescription expenses in excess of $2,830.00.
•Adoption Credit Increases adoption credit by $1,000, makes it refundable, and extends the credit through the 2011 tax year
•Health students' assistance - Expands student loan programs, scholarships and loan repayments for medical services students, also allows exclusions from gross incomes for health professionals serving in underserved areas.
March 23, 2010

Federal grants to states to implement consumer assistance for complaints
April 1, 2010

Medicaid - Allows states to opt to cover parents and childless adults up to 133% of the Federal Poverty Level and receive federal funds under the current (strengthened) formulas.
June 21, 2010

•High Risk Pools open for uninsured people. It's my understanding that unlike current state high risk pools, the costs on these will be subsidized and calculated as a national pool, spreading costs and risks across a wider group.
•Federal assistance for early retirees - helps companies continue insurance for employees age 55-64
July 1, 2010

•The John Boehner Tanning Tax - 10% tax on amounts paid for indoor tanning services
September 23, 2010

•Rescissions - Policies may not be rescinded when people get sick. This applies to all new and existing policies, whether through an employer or individual.
•Lifetime Limits - All lifetime limits on policies are eliminated.
•Annual Limits - All group and individual plans will have tight restrictions on annual benefit limits. There will be no annual benefit limits once the exchange comes online 1/1/2014.
•Preventative - 100% coverage for preventative health services.
•Improved claims appeal process.
October 1, 2010

•Community Health Centers Funding to strengthen existing community health centers and begin new ones in all 50 states.
•Primary Care Workforce expansion via additional funding for scholarships and student loans.

Going Forward:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_reform_in_the_United_States

2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act details
Main articles: Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010
Key provisions of the health-care legislation passed in March 2010 are:[4]

Within one year of enactment (2010-2011)

Insurance companies barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick, ending the practice of rescission. Lifetime coverage limits eliminated and annual limits restricted.
Young adults able to stay on their parents' health plans until age 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.
Uninsured adults with pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
Insurance companies cannot deny group or new (non-grandfathered) individual coverage to children under age 19 due to a pre-existing condition.[36]
A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.
Medicare drug plan beneficiaries who fall into the Medicare Part D coverage gap (the so-called "doughnut hole") will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.
A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.
A 10% tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.

Effective during 2011

Medicare provides 10% bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.
Medicare will cover the full cost of annual wellness visits and personalized prevention plan services for beneficiaries. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.
A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.
Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.
Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.
An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.

Effective as of 2012

Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.
An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions.
Companies will be required to issue 1099 forms to any vendor of services or rental property to which the business has paid more than $600. Form 1099 is also sent to the IRS. Under the existing law, businesses issued the Form 1099 only to individuals who provided services or property to a business. The health care law included the same form be issued to corporations as well, and that the form be issued to individuals and corporations that provide property to the business.[37][38] Only business related payments are reportable, personal payments not.[39] There is number of exceptions, for example: payments for merchandise, telephone, freight, storage, payments of rent to real estate agents are excepted.[39] The health care bill mandate aims to collect lost revenue from companies that under-report on their tax returns. The provision is expected to raise $17 billion over 10 years.[40]

Effective as of 2013
A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.
The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10% from 7.5% of income. The threshold remains at 7.5% for the elderly through 2016.
The Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA) is raised to 2.35% from 1.45% for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.
A 2.9% excise tax is imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.

Effective as of 2014

Main article: Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act#Effective by January 1, 2014
State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.
Individuals with income up to 133% of the federal poverty level qualify for Medicaid coverage.
Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.
Premium cap for maximum "out-of-pocket" pay will be established for people with incomes up to 400 percent of FPL.[41][42] Section 1401 of PPACA explains that the subsidy will be provided as a advanceble, refundable tax credit[43] and gives a formula for it calculation.[44] Refundable tax credit is a way to provide government benefit to people even with no tax liability (Example: Child Tax Credit). According to White House and Congressional Budget Office figures, the maximum share of income that enrollees would have to pay for the "silver" healthcare plan would vary depending on their income relative to the federal poverty level, as follows:

for families with income 133–150% of FPL will be 4-4.7% of income, for families with income of 150–200% of FPL will be 4.7-6.5% of income, for families with income 200–250% of FPL will be 6.5-8.4% of income, for families with income 250-300% of FPL will be 8.4-10.2% of income, for families with income from 300-400% of FPL will be 10.2% of income. In 2016,the FPL is projected to equal about $11,800 for a single person and about $24,000 for family of four.

Most people required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a tax if they don't.
Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.
Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.

Effective 2015
Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services.

Effective 2018
An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.

 

[Lemon law]

Well DUH, the private insurance companies don't like the new Health care reform law that may end their rip off ways, so they will scream loudly they had to increase rates.

But they were going to raise rates anyway so they have something convenient to blame.

Its just human nature to say, don't blame me for ripping you off, blame someone anyone else. That way you don't blame the insurance company.

And sadly you are not a super expert cost account privy to data insurance companies don't share, so no one can answer the who is the real rip off questions. Nor are you considering that you now have some protections you did not have before that may save you a fortune down the road, and your mother would not have worse coverage if we did not get a watered down law instead of real health care reform.

 

[halik]

Common sense says when you force an insurance company to pay more money out (no maximums, zero copay for preventative stuff, 26 year old "kids" on parents family plan) premiums will go up.

And that's exactly what has happened. It's common sense.

Not if you mandate all the non-coverage people to pay in...

I've got an FSA, so no impact here... still get fun matching and all.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well DUH, the private insurance companies don't like the new Health care reform law that may end their rip off ways, so they will scream loudly they had to increase rates.

But they were going to raise rates anyway so they have something convenient to blame.

Its just human nature to say, don't blame me for ripping you off, blame someone anyone else. That way you don't blame the insurance company.

And sadly you are not a super expert cost account privy to data insurance companies don't share, so no one can answer the who is the real rip off questions. Nor are you considering that you now have some protections you did not have before that may save you a fortune down the road, and your mother would not have worse coverage if we did not get a watered down law instead of real health care reform.

So explain to me how losing half my FSA is going to benefit me again? Oh I hate to tell you but much of the paperwork is because of Federal mandates. Most of what I have to deal with comes directly from them.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the end result of Obamacare is higher insurance premiums and worse coverage. Why? Because Congress and Obama completely failed to address the real root cause of our nation's health care problem--unlike every other first world country we don't have real socialized medicine.

The real problem with our health system is that a huge amount of money goes to people who have nothing to do with providing health care--insurance company executives, insurance company employees, medical billings people, company benefits plan managers, insurance brokers, insurance consultants. In contrast, real socialized medicine has proven to be far less expensive and far more efficient while offering 100% coverage, zero medical bankruptcies, and while removing the burden of insurance concerns from businesses.

 

[BoberFett]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the end result of Obamacare is higher insurance premiums and worse coverage. Why? Because Congress and Obama completely failed to address the real root cause of our nation's health care problem--unlike every other first world country we don't have real socialized medicine.

The real problem with our health system is that a huge amount of money goes to people who have nothing to do with providing health care--insurance company executives, insurance company employees, medical billings people, company benefits plan managers, insurance brokers, insurance consultants. In contrast, real socialized medicine has proven to be far less expensive and far more efficient while offering 100% coverage, zero medical bankruptcies, and while removing the burden of insurance concerns from businesses.

Socialized medicine in the US is a nice idea, but that's about it. Execution would be miserable at best. Half of medical spending in the country is already done by the government, and only caring for a small fraction of the populace. Give the federal government total control and you'll see a corrupt, broken system that costs us twice as much as it does now, and with worse care.

If states want to put their own systems into place, more power to them. But we have to stop giving power to the handful of wealthy assholes that run Washington. They have nothing to offer the rest of us.

 

[ElFenix]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the end result of Obamacare is higher insurance premiums and worse coverage. Why? Because Congress and Obama completely failed to address the real root cause of our nation's health care problem--unlike every other first world country we don't have real socialized medicine.

The real problem with our health system is that a huge amount of money goes to people who have nothing to do with providing health care--insurance company executives, insurance company employees, medical billings people, company benefits plan managers, insurance brokers, insurance consultants. In contrast, real socialized medicine has proven to be far less expensive and far more efficient while offering 100% coverage, zero medical bankruptcies, and while removing the burden of insurance concerns from businesses.

nevermind that the public sources in the US already spend as much or more per capita (not per covered person) than the UK, france, or germany. and we cover ~25% of the population with that. you could strip out all funding processed through insurance companies tomorrow, not replace it, and we'd still be spending as much or more than any european country. and we'd be covering a lot fewer people than we currently are. it's not the insurance companies that are fscking us over (well, not entirely, and not nearly so much as the democrats want you to think)

(and also nevermind the fact that bankruptcy is a pretty foreign concept to people elsewhere.)

 

[Pulsar]

Fixed for you.

You know, I'm pretty sure you're not an engineer. Because a basic tenet of most engineer's education is a mass balance or force balance - you learn them in chemistry, thermo, and basic mechanics/physics.

Put more simply, so you can understand, if these insurance companies are now increasing what they're paying out specifically because of Obamacare (for instance, the children to 26 rule), then they will obviously be raising what they have to take in to compensate for it.

There is simply no arguing it. It's black and white. Simple addition. 2+2=4.

Refusing to believe and understand simply destroys your credibility (if you had any).

 

[Pulsar]

nevermind that the public sources in the US already spend as much or more per capita (not per covered person) than the UK, france, or germany. and we cover ~25% of the population with that. you could strip out all funding processed through insurance companies tomorrow, not replace it, and we'd still be spending as much or more than any european country. and we'd be covering a lot fewer people than we currently are. it's not the insurance companies that are fscking us over (well, not entirely, and not nearly so much as the democrats want you to think)

(and also nevermind the fact that bankruptcy is a pretty foreign concept to people elsewhere.)

Yep. You guys both nailed it. This is a bullshit law that does nothing to fix the problem. It's another bowing to the lobbyists.

 

[woolfe9999]

Every time someone's insurance goes up, goes down, or stays the same, it's all because of Obamacare. The law has barely taken effect yet but everything that happens with medical insurance is all about this law.

You guys crack me up.

- Dave

 

[werepossum]

You know, I'm pretty sure you're not an engineer. Because a basic tenet of most engineer's education is a mass balance or force balance - you learn them in chemistry, thermo, and basic mechanics/physics.

Put more simply, so you can understand, if these insurance companies are now increasing what they're paying out specifically because of Obamacare (for instance, the children to 26 rule), then they will obviously be raising what they have to take in to compensate for it.

There is simply no arguing it. It's black and white. Simple addition. 2+2=4.

Refusing to believe and understand simply destroys your credibility (if you had any).

LOL Good point.

Our health insurance doesn't come up for renewal until June I think. BCBS of Tennessee (a not-for-profit) has not yet officially notified us of what changes are required due to Obamacare, but scuttlebutt is that our policy (a HSA plus an umbrella with a large deductible) will have to go up beyond our means to pay in order to provide all the things Obamacare dictates. I fully expect to be left without insurance, but I may yet be pleasantly surprised with an increase we can afford to swallow.

 

[spidey07]

Every time someone's insurance goes up, goes down, or stays the same, it's all because of Obamacare. The law has barely taken effect yet but everything that happens with medical insurance is all about this law.

You guys crack me up.

- Dave

Do you not understand how business or insurance works? When you are forced by rule of law to carry more risk, exposure, spend more you WILL make sure you bring in more money to cover it via premiums. Insurance is all about predicting risk/money out and this law increased both.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Every time someone's insurance goes up, goes down, or stays the same, it's all because of Obamacare. The law has barely taken effect yet but everything that happens with medical insurance is all about this law.

You guys crack me up.

- Dave

Not me. I blamed it on global warming 😀

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I just received the upcoming years insurance package and my premiums went up by 10%.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

They stopped the public option.

Don't forget the Blue Dog Democrats that also would have voted against the public option.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Until you get healthy young people to opt into insurance plans, prices will keep going up as workers get older, obamacare or not.

Thats what happens with mandated single payer, costs are spread out more.

 

[theeedude]

You know, I'm pretty sure you're not an engineer. Because a basic tenet of most engineer's education is a mass balance or force balance - you learn them in chemistry, thermo, and basic mechanics/physics.

Put more simply, so you can understand, if these insurance companies are now increasing what they're paying out specifically because of Obamacare (for instance, the children to 26 rule), then they will obviously be raising what they have to take in to compensate for it.

There is simply no arguing it. It's black and white. Simple addition. 2+2=4.

Refusing to believe and understand simply destroys your credibility (if you had any).

According to the right, young people don't buy insurance because they don't need the health care. If they don't need the healthcare, they aren't costing the insurance companies, and there is nothing to compensate for. Or are you saying we currently have some young people not getting health care due to lack of insurance?