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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Family has 4 "children". Age 25, 24, 20 and 17 (the latter two are in school).

Before the family plan and it's premium would cover the parents and the 17 and 20 year old. Because of the law insurance MUST allow the 24 and 25 year old "child" onto the same family plan.

Remember, a family plan is for the entire family so their premiums won't be increased from going from two dependents to 4 but the money out and risk from insurance company will and therefore the premiums for all plan participants must go up.

Is this really that difficult to understand? Really? You're adding costs and risk, premiums MUST be increased to accommodate that.

actually yea i am having a hard time understanding this. what added cost and risk? same kid in the family just 5 years older. is not like you are adding somebody new.

I believe the "added cost and risk" is just smoke and mirrors.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I was diagnosed with leukemia on the 8th of Oct. And was admitted into a hospital that night.
On the 12th I had a Bone Marrow aspiration and a biopsy. And from that they narrowed it down to Burkitts Leukemia
I was moved to another hospital specializing in Cancer care, and got a private room with all the fixings, TV, Telephone, Fridge/Freezer, big lazy boy and an excellent outside view
There's probably a dozen nurses I can call on anytime, and doctors aplenty
I've had my 5 appetizer chemotherapy treatments and 2 of the harder ones, got a couple days off and then I hit the chemo again.
I have nothing to complain about and actually am just amazed at my treatment after all the horror stories I've read here on P&N
Through all this everything has been taken care of, I've got a social worker who stops by and makes sure my home life is all well (bills etc)
No worries, no stress, I think I may be getting a little spoiled

I love my Socilized Medicine


5114307077_52f222a1a3.jpg
[/ur]
 

mb

Lifer
Jun 27, 2004
10,233
2
71
actually yea i am having a hard time understanding this. what added cost and risk? same kid in the family just 5 years older. is not like you are adding somebody new.

I believe the "added cost and risk" is just smoke and mirrors.
What? In his example there are two additional kids being insured.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
actually yea i am having a hard time understanding this. what added cost and risk? same kid in the family just 5 years older. is not like you are adding somebody new.

I believe the "added cost and risk" is just smoke and mirrors.

Did you not see my point? You DID ADD TWO NEW PEOPLE WITHOUT CHANGING THE PREMIUM.

I don't think you know what a family plan is. They don't charge you premiums based on how many dependants, it's a family plan, all kids up to 18 are covered unless they are in school and then it's 22 I think. Now it's 26. Before the law insurance didn't HAVE to cover the 26 year old "child" in the family plan, now they do. THAT adds risk and cost.

Can you seriously not see how this would necessitate raising premiums? Really?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
What? In his example there are two additional kids being insured.


what two extra kids?

"a family plan is for the entire family so their premiums won't be increased from going from two dependents to 4"
 

mb

Lifer
Jun 27, 2004
10,233
2
71
what two extra kids?

"a family plan is for the entire family so their premiums won't be increased from going from two dependents to 4"
Those two.

Does it not cost the insurance company anything more to cover 4 people than it does 2 people?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Did you not see my point? You DID ADD TWO NEW PEOPLE WITHOUT CHANGING THE PREMIUM.

I don't think you know what a family plan is. They don't charge you premiums based on how many dependants, it's a family plan, all kids up to 18 are covered unless they are in school and then it's 22 I think. Now it's 26. Before the law insurance didn't HAVE to cover the 26 year old "child" in the family plan, now they do. THAT adds risk and cost.

Can you seriously not see how this would necessitate raising premiums? Really?

no i really dont. what are the added risk? what are the added cost? what is the difference between my 17 year old that is on my plan and when she hits 26? i dont see any difference there is no change in the risk.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,357
8,446
126
no i really dont. what are the added risk? what are the added cost? what is the difference between my 17 year old that is on my plan and when she hits 26? i dont see any difference there is no change in the risk.


previously she'd no longer have been covered by your plan. now she can be. there could be an additional covered person on the plan. if there are additional covered persons, then the cost for that plan goes up.
 

mb

Lifer
Jun 27, 2004
10,233
2
71
no i really dont. what are the added risk? what are the added cost? what is the difference between my 17 year old that is on my plan and when she hits 26? i dont see any difference there is no change in the risk.
Um, because before when your 17 year old hit 22, she was no longer covered. Now she is covered through the age 26.

So, before, not covered. After, covered. Being covered = additional risk, no?

There are X thousands (million?) people in that age group not currently covered that will be.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
I was diagnosed with leukemia on the 8th of Oct. And was admitted into a hospital that night.
On the 12th I had a Bone Marrow aspiration and a biopsy. And from that they narrowed it down to Burkitts Leukemia
I was moved to another hospital specializing in Cancer care, and got a private room with all the fixings, TV, Telephone, Fridge/Freezer, big lazy boy and an excellent outside view
There's probably a dozen nurses I can call on anytime, and doctors aplenty
I've had my 5 appetizer chemotherapy treatments and 2 of the harder ones, got a couple days off and then I hit the chemo again.
I have nothing to complain about and actually am just amazed at my treatment after all the horror stories I've read here on P&N
Through all this everything has been taken care of, I've got a social worker who stops by and makes sure my home life is all well (bills etc)
No worries, no stress, I think I may be getting a little spoiled

I love my Socilized Medicine


5114307077_52f222a1a3.jpg
[/ur]
Wishing you the best.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
actually yea i am having a hard time understanding this. what added cost and risk? same kid in the family just 5 years older. is not like you are adding somebody new.

I believe the "added cost and risk" is just smoke and mirrors.

If kids are considered as 0 - 18 years, then the average length of time on a parent's policy is 18 years. Raise the age to twenty-one and the average length of time goes to twenty-one. Raise the age to twenty-six and the average length of time goes to twenty-six. Older ages of mandatory coverage means more overlap in number of kids covered under the family plan. If a family has three kids spaced five years apart, raising the age from twenty-one to twenty-six raises the number of child-years from sixty-three (five years covering one kid, five years covering two kids, eleven years covering three kids, five years years covering two kids, and finally five years covering one kid) to seventy-eight (five years covering one kid, five years covering two kids, sixteen years covering three kids, five years years covering two kids, and finally five years covering one kid.) Any family with more than one child will always cost the insurance company more (on average) if you lengthen the period of mandatory coverage because there will be longer periods when family coverage covers multiple children. Couple this with additional required items covered and you have a double hit. Since insurance companies are in business to make money or at least (with not-for-profits) to break even, and since they are all taking the same hit, rates will inevitably rise.

A combination of three things will happen. Rates will go up across the board to cover this double hit. Rates will go up across the board to cover the loss of the more profitable individual coverage of those twenty-one to twenty-six years olds who previously had individual coverage, but who will now remain on Mom and Dad's coverage. And family coverage will increasingly be phased out in favor of riders on each child, more accurately reflecting the actual cost of insuring a child. This is what we are seeing now and will continue to see until the private insurance companies are driven out of business and the federal government takes over health care completely.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,257
9,077
136
Um, because before when your 17 year old hit 22, she was no longer covered. Now she is covered through the age 26.

So, before, not covered. After, covered. Being covered = additional risk, no?

There are X thousands (million?) people in that age group not currently covered that will be.

I think what they're getting at, and what some don't understand, is that most employer provided plans are either a) employee only, b) emp. and spouse or c) emp. and family. So, in this case you'd be looking at case c. Now, that c plan doesn't change premiums based on # of dependents in "family".

I won't even get into how the overwhelming majority of those individuals 23-26 are also quite healthy and not huge risks for the insurance companies.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I think what they're getting at, and what some don't understand, is that most employer provided plans are either a) employee only, b) emp. and spouse or c) emp. and family. So, in this case you'd be looking at case c. Now, that c plan doesn't change premiums based on # of dependents in "family".

I won't even get into how the overwhelming majority of those individuals 23-26 are also quite healthy and not huge risks for the insurance companies.

Does't matter. That age group would have been paying premiums into a separate group or individual plan. Now they get to jump on mommy and daddy's for "free".

Know what makes it "free?" Premiums for all group participants go up as you are seeing happening all across the board, all directly thanks to obamacare.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
TY for the wishes guys
Yes Outhouse I'm Canadian

I've always rolled with the punches, and this is just another one.
I'll kick this things ass and come out smiling broader then before. ;)
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I was diagnosed with leukemia on the 8th of Oct. And was admitted into a hospital that night.
On the 12th I had a Bone Marrow aspiration and a biopsy. And from that they narrowed it down to Burkitts Leukemia
I was moved to another hospital specializing in Cancer care, and got a private room with all the fixings, TV, Telephone, Fridge/Freezer, big lazy boy and an excellent outside view
There's probably a dozen nurses I can call on anytime, and doctors aplenty
I've had my 5 appetizer chemotherapy treatments and 2 of the harder ones, got a couple days off and then I hit the chemo again.
I have nothing to complain about and actually am just amazed at my treatment after all the horror stories I've read here on P&N
Through all this everything has been taken care of, I've got a social worker who stops by and makes sure my home life is all well (bills etc)
No worries, no stress, I think I may be getting a little spoiled

I love my Socilized Medicine


5114307077_52f222a1a3.jpg
[/ur]

Good luck with that. I'm a cancer survivor myself, thyroid cancer. It's not always such a big deal anymore.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Best wishes indeed.

The problem we have is that politicians, not medical experts are trying to assume control. Our socialized medical plan, medicaid, wouldn't give a severely ill AIDS patient the information he needed to get his meds, and they were the ones to change it. He's dead.

This ain't your daddy's healthcare.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,257
9,077
136
Does't matter. That age group would have been paying premiums into a separate group or individual plan. Now they get to jump on mommy and daddy's for "free".

No, now they get to stay on the same plan they have been on since birth or whenever parents plan started instead of being kicked off due to some arbitrary date on a calendar in relation to their DOB.

Know what makes it "free?" Premiums for all group participants go up as you are seeing happening all across the board, all directly thanks to obamacare.

Keep telling yourself that ... premiums haven't been increasing at 20%/yr or anything before this passed. :(
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,016
36
86
I was diagnosed with leukemia on the 8th of Oct. And was admitted into a hospital that night.
On the 12th I had a Bone Marrow aspiration and a biopsy. And from that they narrowed it down to Burkitts Leukemia
I was moved to another hospital specializing in Cancer care, and got a private room with all the fixings, TV, Telephone, Fridge/Freezer, big lazy boy and an excellent outside view
There's probably a dozen nurses I can call on anytime, and doctors aplenty
I've had my 5 appetizer chemotherapy treatments and 2 of the harder ones, got a couple days off and then I hit the chemo again.
I have nothing to complain about and actually am just amazed at my treatment after all the horror stories I've read here on P&N
Through all this everything has been taken care of, I've got a social worker who stops by and makes sure my home life is all well (bills etc)
No worries, no stress, I think I may be getting a little spoiled

I love my Socilized Medicine

The problem with all this is that you're (I believe) in Canada, not the US. In the US, what would happen, depending on where you're at, is the inept and lazy AHA (Americans Helping Americans, that's what they'll name the bill for nationalized HC in the US, or some other catchy type slogan) worker will finally get around to getting your results to your primary doc. Then the inefficient system they have there, completely following the Fed. regulations, will have your results wait for 2-5 days. Then, if they actually get in contact with you for the results, you'll wait to be admitted to a hospital when the beds open up. Why wait you ask? Because there'll be no beds available, those will all be taken up by everyone else there. Of course, they normally could discharge those folks when needed, but, due to federal regulations, won't be able to since the genious's that dreamed them up will have dreamed them up to get away from 1/2 the US population (legal and illegal) suing the Federally run health care locations.

When you finally get a bed, it'll be in a room likely with someone else, not your own. It may have a window (both my mom's and dad's did, but, only because they were on that floor. Others did not), may not. The view will be meaningless, because federal regulations will require in window shades to prevent damage from animals that can't treat property not their own with respect (so as to reduce maintenance and/or replacement costs), and also to reduce the amount of lawsuits from when said idiot or idiots kids decide to pull on the shade and it falls on them, giving them a bump on the head which will prompt another lawsuit for "emotional trauma" or some other such BS....which means the shade, which will be in window, will end up being broke because we'll source it from the cheapest place we can get it, and/or, the maintenance guy is the brother of the lazy HC record worker above, won't have dry lubed the shade mechanizm as instead, he needed a smoke break to shoot the sh1t with his other lazy cousin who would normally be on his/her way to change the linens on your bed, but, that can wait, you can sit in p1ss and sh1t for a while without any problems.

You won't be having the test on the 12th of course because of the records F-up, but, you'll have it on the 15th...of next month? Why you ask? Because the other 40 million people who have been added to the HC roles in the US, and the 40% of the US that doesn't pay taxes, have jammed up the system who has had no additional capacity added to it.

Now, when you get enraged by all this, you can press that nurse oncall button. And, the nurse will eventually get around to coming to you. Then she'll just nod and say, Yes, it's so messed up, Yes, I agree, Yes, mmm hmmm....then she'll go and do something else.

When you finally get around to getting your results on the 30th of next month - what, you think the records folks will be any better for the other test, or those places won't by anymore backed up? - you'll find out you needs some more tests, which will be scheduled - at some point, because again, you've got the same admin people, and the person doing the admin hiring is a F'ing idiot, but hey, you can't fire them because they're on the Gov regulation system - in due time.

Then you'll die or be pronounced advanced Stage IV, and sent to hospice. Bye Bye.

People keep thinking the average lazy dumbf*ck that is going to be hired in the US to do this Fed HC system utopia is going to be as competent and have the ethics and/or morals that these other folks in other more homogenus countries have: They won't.

Go to the F up DMV: That'll be your HC worker.

Chuck

P.S. Don't get me wrong....the horror stories with privitized care, just/almost as bad. It's a catch-22 IMO....
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Canadian Story: "I was diagnosed with leukemia on the 8th of Oct. And was admitted into a hospital that night."
American Story: "I was diagnosed with leukemia on the 8th of Oct. And was dropped by my insurer and bankrupt that night."
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,016
36
86
Canadian Story: "I was diagnosed with leukemia on the 8th of Oct. And was admitted into a hospital that night."
American Story: "I was diagnosed with leukemia on the 8th of Oct. And was dropped by my insurer and bankrupt that night."

My mom was diagnosed with leimyosarcoma, after they did a full hystorectomy, no drop.

My dad was just diagnosed with interhepatic cholangiocarcinoma, no drop.

Carrier is BlueCrossBlueShield of Illinios, BlueAdvantage plan.

Please edit your American story. Thanks.

Chuck
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
My mom was diagnosed with leimyosarcoma, after they did a full hystorectomy, no drop.

My dad was just diagnosed with interhepatic cholangiocarcinoma, no drop.

Carrier is BlueCrossBlueShield of Illinios, BlueAdvantage plan.

Please edit your American story. Thanks.

Chuck

When right wingers edit their Canadian stories.