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charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
According to the right, young people don't buy insurance because they don't need the health care. If they don't need the healthcare, they aren't costing the insurance companies, and there is nothing to compensate for. Or are you saying we currently have some young people not getting health care due to lack of insurance?

I think it is meant that young people are not buying healthcare because they do not see it as a good value(ie having to pay a couple hundred a mouth for a high value plan at work, rather than a simple inexpensive catastrophic plan).
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
So explain to me how losing half my FSA is going to benefit me again? Oh I hate to tell you but much of the paperwork is because of Federal mandates. Most of what I have to deal with comes directly from them.
Are you losing actual money?
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
I just received the upcoming years insurance package and my premiums went up by 10%.

I saw a study showing employers are only paying an average of 3% more for 2011. This is less than average compared to past years. Employees are seeing an average jump of 12.5% however because employers are taking advantage of the bad job market.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
According to the right, young people don't buy insurance because they don't need the health care. If they don't need the healthcare, they aren't costing the insurance companies, and there is nothing to compensate for. Or are you saying we currently have some young people not getting health care due to lack of insurance?

If I had a choice, I would have catastrophic health insurance with a high deductible. I visit a doctor once a year and I'm in great health with zero problems. I'd rather pay for that one visit out of pocket, pay low premiums, and know that if I blow my knee out, get in a car accident, or fall off a cliff my health insurance will pay for the hospital bill.

Unfortunately, I can't do that in my awesome state (MA).
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
The company I work for is self insured, our premiums pay the insurer for processing the claims. The company's portion increased by 10% as well. They did not change our deductible, co-pay, or max out of pocket for 2011.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Same experience here - we went to a higher level of service and have a lower premium.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126

Of course. It's money from income which we pay out and are taxed less. That allows us to offset our increased costs. For medical reasons it makes sense that we have a low deductible plan for office visits (although our medication copays are still substantial). That probably puts us in "cadillac" territory, but who knows what that means. The benefits seem to be front loaded and the costs come later. No one really knows what any of this means, but in 2013 the overall costs for people like my family look to be headed up.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
So:

FSAs exist because the system is fucked up, but what's proposed doesn't begin to cover the difference so it's more fucked up yet.

Or:

You are screwed, but don't worry the solution is going to screw you more.

Want to run that by again?

Health care costs money, or do you think you're special and should get yours for free?
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Of course. It's money from income which we pay out and are taxed less. That allows us to offset our increased costs. For medical reasons it makes sense that we have a low deductible plan for office visits (although our medication copays are still substantial). That probably puts us in "cadillac" territory, but who knows what that means. The benefits seem to be front loaded and the costs come later. No one really knows what any of this means, but in 2013 the overall costs for people like my family look to be headed up.
You aren't really losing half your money then. It sounds like you're losing the ability to use as much pre-tax dollars as previous years towards medical costs.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
You aren't really losing half your money then. It sounds like you're losing the ability to use as much pre-tax dollars as previous years towards medical costs.

My costs are going up and I'm losing half my ability to offset that. So are a lot of people who have family members with chronic illness. Explain how that's a good thing.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
My costs are going up and I'm losing half my ability to offset that. So are a lot of people who have family members with chronic illness. Explain how that's a good thing.

So you don't think that the more you use the system the more it should cost you?

I guess the only health care costs that concern you are your own. Funny that coming from someone who is such an expert in the health care industry.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Socialized medicine in the US is a nice idea, but that's about it. Execution would be miserable at best. Half of medical spending in the country is already done by the government, and only caring for a small fraction of the populace. Give the federal government total control and you'll see a corrupt, broken system that costs us twice as much as it does now, and with worse care.

The VA is totally controlled by the Feds and successful. Like I've said a million times before, just model a national system after our current "socialized" military one. The only caveat to get this care is that you can prove you're paying taxes and have a job (or retired). Just as the military requires that you put your time in, so will my proposal.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
My costs are going up and I'm losing half my ability to offset that. So are a lot of people who have family members with chronic illness. Explain how that's a good thing.
I don't know if your costs are going up or not. But government said they're not going to subsidize (allowing as much pre-tax dollars) as much of the cost as it was doing in the past. How's that a bad thing?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The VA is totally controlled by the Feds and successful. Like I've said a million times before, just model a national system after our current "socialized" military one. The only caveat to get this care is that you can prove you're paying taxes and have a job (or retired). Just as the military requires that you put your time in, so will my proposal.

Laughing my ass off at the concept that Democrats would ever require anyone to ever have a job to access government benefits.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Laughing my ass off at the concept that Democrats would ever require anyone to ever have a job to access government benefits.

Of course there would be extenuating circumstances for not paying taxes like disabilities/handicaps, but overall if the VA can be successful then it should be a good start toward "socialized" medicine.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I think it is meant that young people are not buying healthcare because they do not see it as a good value(ie having to pay a couple hundred a mouth for a high value plan at work, rather than a simple inexpensive catastrophic plan).

OK, so what's going to cost more:
Parent's coverage + kid's catastrophic coverage + kid's high out of pocket deductibles.
OR
Parent's coverage that covers the the kid till 26.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0

No idea. We used to use United - then went to Aetna due to high costs associated with United. Now we are back to United at a lower cost than what we paid for Aetna, and have an option to use Aetna for even less. I don't think our General Procurement negotiates that hard in between years on this which leads me to believe that it is something systemic that is leading to lower costs.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I don't know if your costs are going up or not. But government said they're not going to subsidize (allowing as much pre-tax dollars) as much of the cost as it was doing in the past. How's that a bad thing?

That's where the Canadian comes out :p

The government isn't "subsidizing" me. I'm able to take more of MY income and spend it on health care. Hey how about this. The government doesn't tax anyone on the amount they have to spend on health care.

Maybe I'm tired of subsidizing government.
 

mb

Lifer
Jun 27, 2004
10,233
2
71
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this new health care BS!!!

I'm young and in good health so I always go with the cheapest plan. Currently $20.71 per pay period.
Now my current plan is going to be made the "premium" plan and will cost $58.18 per pay period (181% increase for the same coverage)!!! Or I can go to a new 'lower' plan with a much higher deductible & out of pocket cost for $32.49 per pay period (57% more!)

So I get to pay an extra $306.28 a year for worse coverage! Thanks Obama!

And looking back, I was only paying $14.27 per period in 2009. Awesome. I'll be paying more than double what I used to.
 
Last edited:
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Of course there would be extenuating circumstances for not paying taxes like disabilities/handicaps, but overall if the VA can be successful then it should be a good start toward "socialized" medicine.

Haha... IF it could be successful... LOL...

The VA is what killed my friend. They dragged their feet on testing for so long (four months) his tumors had an opportunity to grow past the point of being eligible for a tansplant.

As a last ditch effort he went to India to try and get a transplant. They ran the same tests in TWO DAYS.. TWO DAYS... The doctor told him if he had left the US and tried to score a new organ in India while he was in the middle of being jacked around by the VA he would have had his transplant and been back home already.

Now he's just a puddle of goo on my couch with a couple of weeks left to live.

Yeah, the VA is a great shining example of how socialized medicine works. Expensive treatment? No worries... just drag your feet until it's too late. Problem solved!