Welcome Insight #2! Update: Picked the car up. Update 4/11:

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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
149K miles & $5,650 - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2236665426.html

62K miles & $6,550 - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/2228735880.html



More money but I'm sure less maintenance. At 441K miles every bushing & suspension componenet needs to be replaced.

QFT this is a train wreck about to happen. He already knows the tranny....chances are the batteries are going to be ready to go regardless if they were replaced once already.

The insight carries a 'want to have it' premimum that those that could afford a more premium vehicle don't mind spending.

The Civic Hybrid is about 95% of the Insight but cheaper.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
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QFT this is a train wreck about to happen. He already knows the tranny....chances are the batteries are going to be ready to go regardless if they were replaced once already.

The insight carries a 'want to have it' premimum that those that could afford a more premium vehicle don't mind spending.

The Civic Hybrid is about 95% of the Insight but cheaper.

I don't think you people quite understand. This is an enthusiasts car.

Those two examples are $3000 and $4000 more than the one I'm buying, and they could have stuff that is worn out too. We are not going to have to spend $3000 or $4000 on this car any time soon, even if something catastrophic happens.

I can rebuild the battery pack myself, but it was just replaced 60,000 miles ago. It should have many, many years of life left, especially once I build a couple of grid chargers for our cars and balance the packs.

The HCH is not capable of 80+MPG. May as well get a Prius.

You all put too much thought into the mileage. If I have to replace worn out things, then I have to replace worn out things. But there's no way it will amount to thousands and thousands of dollars. It will be very hard for us not to end up ahead with such a low purchase price.

I'm not worried about silly, cheap things like suspension bushings and components. That is all easy, cheap, and would last another couple hundred thousand miles, if replaced.

What else could possibly be worn out? Used transmissions are $500. Used engines are less than $1000.

Again, I am not worried. Most of you are lacking perspective because you aren't used to these cars. They can't really be compared to regular cars.....
 
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alfa147x

Lifer
Jul 14, 2005
29,307
106
106
God damn it folks.

Some people buy $5,000 mustangs for fun.
Eli buys fucking Honda Insights.

How fucking hard is that?
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
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God damn it folks.

Some people buy $5,000 mustangs for fun.
Eli buys fucking Honda Insights.

How fucking hard is that?

lol :D

I think we're losing sight of the real point. Overall, while I am happy that we're getting such a good deal.. this is about being an Insight enthusiast. I am happpy to take this high mileage car, fix what needs fixing, and keep it on the road. That excites me. I see that as fun.

If I have to fix some expensive things to do that, so be it. We would have almost a brand new car - albeit with 440,000 miles on the chassis - if we put $4000 into it.

If this thread were about an 80s CRX with 440,000 miles that I was going to fix up, the replies would be different. So think of it like that.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
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No, we understand it...we don't have a problem with anyone buying a Insight with 450k on the clock. The OP has proven he is not the most mechanical of types here already and is now thinking it's going to be cheap to keep this on the road.

No doubt it will just roll along for a while, but there is no way that car is going to be safe for long without an entire suspension overhaul at the very least soon.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
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No, we understand it...we don't have a problem with anyone buying a Insight with 450k on the clock. The OP has proven he is not the most mechanical of types here already and is now thinking it's going to be cheap to keep this on the road.

No doubt it will just roll along for a while, but there is no way that car is going to be safe for long without an entire suspension overhaul at the very least soon.

Excuse me? How have I proven that I'm not the most mechanical of types? What the fuck are you talking about? Fuck you. Don't be an asshole. I'm extremely mechanically inclined and I have no problem tackling anything as long as I have the time and tools.

I'm more mechanically inclined than more than half of the people that post in the Garage, FFS. I do all of my own work if I can - and I can. My problem is a lack of space, currently. I'm not going to do a transmission or engine swap in my pea-gravel lined driveway. I only have a single car garage and it's full of crap. That will all change when we have our own place.

Grow up. You're the first one to bring personal attacks into an otherwise clean but lively thread.

Edit: Also, who cares if it's going to need the suspension worked on? Is that a reason not to buy the car? Get real. I knew you weren't going to have anything nice to say when I saw you had posted. Get out of my thread if you don't have anything to contribute.
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
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I wasn't bringing personal attacks. You did. You also keep talking about his future place where everything will happen to add to whatever insecurity brought that on.

I have simply said you are wrong if you think a 500k mile car will be an awesome value at the price you stated and it will be cheap. There are people trying everyday with only 4 lugs on there total set of wheels, doesn't mean they are right about it being ok.

You already know it's needing a transmission and don't have a place that can handle the repair. Have you even priced that out? Most mechanics aren't going to just let you bring them a pick and pull transmission with any kind of warranty behind it....most don't even want to get into that type of repair because when it doesn't work right then they still get blamed.

Any of the other Insights posted are way better values. This was a purchase pushed out of a limit of finances when those are going to be needed to get this car really street-worthy. Have you even done a compression test?

I am just thinking of others when someone is bragging they are putting a worn out car on the road.

This car cannot be truly safe unless a ton of maintenance was already done...then I don't know why it would be selling so low still.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
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I wasn't bringing personal attacks. You did. You also keep talking about his future place where everything will happen to add to whatever insecurity brought that on.

I have simply said you are wrong if you think a 500k mile car will be an awesome value at the price you stated and it will be cheap. There are people trying everyday with only 4 lugs on there total set of wheels, doesn't mean they are right about it being ok.

You already know it's needing a transmission and don't have a place that can handle the repair. Have you even priced that out? Most mechanics aren't going to just let you bring them a pick and pull transmission with any kind of warranty behind it....most don't even want to get into that type of repair because when it doesn't work right then they still get blamed.

Any of the other Insights posted are way better values. This was a purchase pushed out of a limit of finances when those are going to be needed to get this car really street-worthy. Have you even done a compression test?

I am just thinking of others when someone is bragging they are putting a worn out car on the road.

This car cannot be truly safe unless a ton of maintenance was already done...then I don't know why it would be selling so low still.

When did I personally attack you? Dude, you brought into question my mechanical abilities and that is one thing that I'm confident in. I have no idea where you pulled that from and my posts over the years regarding cars speak for themselves.

Uh.. I said that once we have our own place, I'll probably have more space to work on things myself. You know we're working on that. Why are you being such a douchebag? Just FYI, 11 months and counting until we move to Portland.

So, tell me Mr. Genius, why is a car that is $3000 more minimum, a better deal than this one? I have already given general prices for things. If this car needs $3000 worth of work, I'll come in here, proudly proclaim it and you can beat your chest and say you were right.

However, in that case I will still have won because it will have $3000 worth of new parts and will be good for many tens of thousands more miles. Like I've said, there are no guarantees that another used Insight won't have any problems. What if I bought a $6,000 one and had to replace the engine? or transmission? That $6000 would turn into $8000 real qiuick, and that would be a terrible deal.

I had to replace the transmission in my car at 100k, and the job was $1400. This isn't a Porsche with 400k miles. These cars are easy to work on overall. I had a shop do it back then because I needed my car back ASAP.

Like I also mentioned, we were looking into one that was $4800, but it sold too quickly. The fact that you would bring up my finances just shows how much of a complete fucking douchebag you are. We were looking for one under $4000, and this fits the bill nicely. Do you know why? Because we're looking to sell her Civic for $3500. That's called being financially responsible. The last thing we wanted to do was spend $6 or $7000 on another car. That makes no sense, to save $50/mo.

How dare you come into my thread, personally attack me and try and re-hash things that have already been discussed without putting any real input in. Yes, you're right, I'm wrong... whatever.

Why is the car worn out at 500k? That's nonsense. If it needs a suspension refresh, so be it. Do you think that's going to cost $3000? lol.

Fucking Christ.
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
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i never personally attacked you. I am just going by the things you have posted in the past. Like the last transmission you had to have replaced, you didn't do it yourself either and by your own admission you don't have a place to do a lot of this work yourself. That is not personally attacking. Everyone thinks they are a mechanic today.

That's the point and the danger of buying a well-worn car, you are going to be paying for this work and as a recent usually also for marked up parts.

You are ranting and being defensive. Much like the beginning of summer being a terrible time to buy a soft top, with the recent gas hike all these hybrids have now peaked in price.

There is no way anyone would agree that you spending $2700 on a 450k mile car was a smart choice when you are trying to save major money.

It's great you got the car that you really wanted to get, but at the same time it was not financially responsible as you said yourself.

I am in disagreement, I am not attacking anyone.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
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i never personally attacked you. I am just going by the things you have posted in the past. Like the last transmission you had to have replaced, you didn't do it yourself either and by your own admission you don't have a place to do a lot of this work yourself. That is not personally attacking. Everyone thinks they are a mechanic today.

That's the point and the danger of buying a well-worn car, you are going to be paying for this work and as a recent usually also for marked up parts.

You are ranting and being defensive. Much like the beginning of summer being a terrible time to buy a soft top, with the recent gas hike all these hybrids have now peaked in price.

There is no way anyone would agree that you spending $2700 on a 450k mile car was a smart choice when you are trying to save major money.

It's great you got the car that you really wanted to get, but at the same time it was not financially responsible as you said yourself.

I am in disagreement, I am not attacking anyone.

Fair enough.

Just hear me out, let me try and explain in detail. I honestly don't think I'm far off base here.

First, I'll clear this up. When I thought about it, I figured your comment was probably because of the things I've had done in shops, so understandable. I am perfectly capable of doing all the work myself. I've lived in Santa Fe for the last 2.5 years, and none of the places I've lived in have had a proper space to do my own work. When I lived in Portland, I did. Another problem is time. If you need your car to get to work, etc.. It is difficult for it to sit in pieces while you work on it on the weekends. Sometimes paying someone to do it is just worth it.

I've also become good friends with another Insight owner/enthusiast down in Albuquerque. He has the space to work on cars, which is why I went down there to install MIMA. He's already offered to help if it needs work.. lol. So that's pretty cool.

Next, I'll ask.. How much do you actually know about the Insight? I've driven one for the last 3 years, and would like to think I'm fairly knowledgeable about them.

We were going to buy an Insight and sell her Civic no matter what. We have been looking for the last month+. We almost bought a $5000 one a month ago that would have been a decent deal. Decided to just wait it out and see if a better deal comes along. We really wanted a green or blue one. The ideal Insight would be one with a recently replaced battery and transmission, all service records and maybe some misc stuff like brakes and tires. Then gas prices started going up, and everyone became hyper aware of it. They started selling faster.. and I got the sense that the cheap ones would soon become harder to come by. So our sense of urgency to buy one went up, because I know how much their prices will spike if gas really does go up to $4/gal.

This one came along, and I jumped on it. Like I said, it's only the 2nd one I've seen under $3000. You're right, I suppose it is a gamble. It's a gamble we're willing to take, though. Remember, if I get it for $2500 it is $2300 cheaper than the next cheapest comparable Insight on Craigslist, last time I checked.

The chances that we need to put $2300+ into this car seem slim, IMO. Remember, this is a one owner car with service records. It's not like he's never done any maintenance to the car, lol. He replaced the radiator 6,000 miles ago. At the same time he replaced every rubber hose in the engine bay, which he said "was not cheap". Brakes were recently inspected and are fine, e-brake adjusted. It will need an oil change not long after we get it home. I don't know the full story though, you're right. It will be very interesting to go through his service records. It could be a gold mine, if he has kept up with scheduled and regular maintenance. I got the feeling that he did, but not really to what extent. For it to have so many miles, it is highly likely that there have been a lot of wear items replaced. He's driven it 1,000mi in the last month.

Let's assume that we DO immediately have to put $2300 into it, making it a $5000 Insight.

Is that REALLY such a terrible thing? Sure, we will have spent more than we wanted to. But we could have bought a $5000 Insight, which in general will be an older model with "a lot" of miles and still have to potentially replace a lot of the same things. If that does happen, at least we know the parts we've replaced won't need to be fixed again for a very long time.

We could have easily bought a 3+ owner, $5000 specimen and not known any history what so ever. This is a calculated risk, and I'm almost positive we will end up ahead. We will see. :) At the very, very worst.. we would have a $6000 Insight.. with a LOT of new parts. Not good for our savings, but a wash overall IMO when you look at the big picture and how much these cars are worth.

The only way that will happen is if the engine, transmission and other bits are toast. If that's the case, I'll be able to tell with a test drive.. and in that case, I probably just won't buy it. :p It's going to have to be something REALLY bad for us to back out, though.

:)
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
That works if you have the cash to lay out to get yourself back on the road and all the parts you need fall into place.

You could get really lucky, but the main reason many avoid such high mileage cars is the risk of a major emergency repair so their work is not affected.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
We do. Like I said, we were going to purchase one in the 4.5 - 5k range, because.. that seems to be their median price point. But would have rather got one for closer to what her Civic will sell for, hence buying this one.

I'm going to run an oil analysis on the oil that comes out of the car. That will be interesting, and should be telling.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
If only it were easy to change engines on that. An insight + TDI = pure awesome!

EDIT:It's been done already :)
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/09/honda-insight-vw-tdi-insight-1g-with-video/

Yep, I would love to have something like that. The amount of work they've put into that is pretty amazing. Would be one hell of a project. Last I heard, they were able to get 120+MPG on a long trip, without the IMA fully functional.

It's pretty neat to see a diesel start up instantly like that. :D
 

alpineranger

Senior member
Feb 3, 2001
701
0
76
She won't be able to get very good MPG in the new one on the way back for a few reasons. First and foremost, she doesn't yet understand lean burn and how to utilize it. Second, the car doesn't have the OEM Bridgestone tires, it has some 175mm garbage. Even worse, it's missing two of the stock rims and is just using steelies. :eek:D:D: That's probably good for a 15MPG loss right there. That's why he's only getting 49MPG(as he states in his ad).
.

I'm pretty certain that california insights never got lean burn capability, due to emissions restrictions. I think the 49 MPG is because it's southern california; with the driving patterns there, no one gets good mileage.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
I have no idea of Honda's reputation with aluminum unibody construction around the turn of the century (saying it that way makes 10 years sound like a long time ago) it took the bicycle industry about 10 years to build aluminum mountain bikes that would last more than a couple seasons and they're significantly less complex machines with much lower levels of stress.

Honda introduced the all-aluminium NSX in 1990, so they had about a decade of experience before releasing the Insight. Given the amount of abuse that sportscars take from track work and the fact that there aren't any stories of the NSX's aluminium monocoque suffering fatigue issues even with far harsher driving than anyone would see on public roads, I seriously doubt that there would be any issues with the Insight's monocoque.

ZV
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
I'm pretty certain that california insights never got lean burn capability, due to emissions restrictions. I think the 49 MPG is because it's southern california; with the driving patterns there, no one gets good mileage.

The car lean-burns just fine. :)

The way people drive down here certainly does have something to do with it. :eek: Christ.

Tires have a big impact, though. The ~60 mile trip from San Bernardino to Barstow to get a hotel, I was following her and she was only able to average 62MPG while I was able to average almost 75. Some of that has to do with MIMA and overall skill level, but still.
 
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Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
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Posting from Barstow, CA. Picked the car up. Got it for $2500. Bought it without hesitation. What a nice surprise! We had no idea what to expect by his "needs paint" comments. The body is straight as an arrow, but it has a couple of primer patches on the rear bumper and the body. No big deal overall. We were expecting the worst.

It runs and drives great! Has every bit as much power as my car. Battery discharges through the whole range without issue. In fact, I'm almost jealous. Just makes me realize that I need to do some maintenance on mine. Everything seems nice and tight, and operates as it should. Though, 1st and 2nd gear synchros are worn and it is difficult to downshift without grinding. It up-shifts normally. That will probably need to be addressed sometime in the next 10-20k miles.

I have, in my hands, receipts that total $10,805.07.. not including a couple of sets of tires. :eek: The last IMA battery he paid for out of pocket. He thinks there's a warranty on it, but I don't think that is correct? The paperwork doesn't say anything about it. I don't even know what some of this stuff is, as it just lists a part number. Axles have been replaced. Two clutches, two brake sets. Fixed a window regulator. Radiator, hoses, belts, water pump, thermostat.

I am really pleasantly surprised. We were expecting the worst, but I don't think it could have ended up any better for a 441,000 mile car. The transmission is the sour grape, but like I've mentioned several times.. You almost have to expect transmission problems with a used Insight, unless you know it's been dealt with recently.

Woohoo! We're happy. :)
 
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Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
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&


I love it! :D
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
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Eli, i just started a soon to be longgggg thread over on vwvortex in the car lounge if you wanted to chime in at some point... using your image as bait :D