Welcome Insight #2! Update: Picked the car up. Update 4/11:

[Arkaign]

Nope. Their transmission was purpose built for the Insight. It's similar to the Civic transmission, but is more compact and has some lighter internals, shaving off about 10lbs.

I assume they're readily available because of their failure rate... They're not hard to rebuild or anything. But that is a good point.

Parts aren't hard to find for these cars - yet - because of how easily they're totalled due to the almuminum construction.

I am sure this will change in 10-15 years...

hmm, has anyone successfully retrofitted a civic 5-speed onto an Insight, or it it unfeasible due to bolt-up incompatibility? It would seem like a worthwhile project for someone to consider if the Insight parts supply is going to be drying up. I know from experience that if a particular part fails often on a popular but rare model that finding spares can suddenly become a nightmare.

 

[Eli]

You could... but do you have time to?

Eh.. no. lol...

We shall see, but by his description it really doesn't need any work other than cosmetic stuff. Given how solid my car is with 154,000 hard miles, I wouldn't doubt everything is still sound @ 440k if it hasn't been beaten on.

 

[Eli]

hmm, has anyone successfully retrofitted a civic 5-speed onto an Insight, or it it unfeasible due to bolt-up incompatibility? It would seem like a worthwhile project for someone to consider if the Insight parts supply is going to be drying up. I know from experience that if a particular part fails often on a popular but rare model that finding spares can suddenly become a nightmare.

I haven't heard anything like this through the grape vine. I have no idea if it would bolt up. It would be interesting though.

I know it's significantly more snubby than the Civic transmission.. by like an inch or two. So assuming you could get it to bolt up, you would have to have custom axle(s) made up.

Sounds kinda like a nightmare. I would rather get with a performance transmission shop and have them rebuild the stock transmission with some beefier internals. The two problem areas are the input shaft bearing and the 2nd gear synchro.

It doesn't seem like it should be hard to fix. For the input shaft bearing, we need a bearing that is more robust and able to better handle the thrust loads from engine and regenerative braking.

The synchro.. I'm not sure what could be done there, but I'm sure there's something.

 

[kornphlake]

Eh.. no. lol...

We shall see, but by his description it really doesn't need any work other than cosmetic stuff. Given how solid my car is with 154,000 hard miles, I wouldn't doubt everything is still sound @ 440k if it hasn't been beaten on.

I really hope you the best, you're doing more to save the world by keeping an old car on the road than buying a new one in my opinion, but I'm constantly told I'm wrong so take that for what it's worth.

I am a little confused by the numbers, you keep referencing insights that have gone over 200k miles, that's great, they are bullet proof at 200k miles. This car has over 400k miles, that's a lot more miles, more miles than I've driven in the last 10 years. In terms of wear, 200k is not even comparable to 400k and I doubt there are many insights that have shown bullet proof reliability past 400k, simply because it takes so long to drive that many miles. You honestly have no idea what kind of problems you might find, the aluminum frame may suffer fatigue cracking, which really is not repairable and not likely detected in the first 300k miles.

 

[airdata]

Anybody have a newer insight? I'm considering getting one of the new ones.

I may go saturday morning and drive one. I looked at them a few weeks ago and they're pretty nice. Inside is as big as the civic I had.

 

[Eli]

I really hope you the best, you're doing more to save the world by keeping an old car on the road than buying a new one in my opinion, but I'm constantly told I'm wrong so take that for what it's worth.

I am a little confused by the numbers, you keep referencing insights that have gone over 200k miles, that's great, they are bullet proof at 200k miles. This car has over 400k miles, that's a lot more miles, more miles than I've driven in the last 10 years. In terms of wear, 200k is not even comparable to 400k and I doubt there are many insights that have shown bullet proof reliability past 400k, simply because it takes so long to drive that many miles. You honestly have no idea what kind of problems you might find, the aluminum frame may suffer fatigue cracking, which really is not repairable and not likely detected in the first 300k miles.

See post #43. I go into why mileage isn't the be all, end all of automobile wear and tear. There is a lot more to the story than that. Granted, we don't know a lot of the story, but we can make assumptions based on what I know of it's history. Remember, this is a one owner car. That's a good thing.

I am not as concerned about a car with 400k highway miles as I would be about a car with 200k city miles. It really shouldn't be hard to understand why.

It is entire possible(though unlikely, just trying to make a point) that this car has actually seen LESS total engine revolutions than a car driven in the city with 200,000 miles.

You're right though. The reason I keep comparing this car to cars with 200k is because.. there aren't very many Insights with over 200k... yet.

I did see one on Craigslist a while back with 360,000 miles.

As far as the frame cracking and stuff like that, I have no idea where you pulled that from. I've never heard of that and I seriously doubt it's a problem considering these cars make under 100HP.

 

[desy]

If you are interested in that type of vehicle make sure you go look at a Prius as well.

 

[alfa147x]

If you are interested in that type of vehicle make sure you go look at a Prius as well.

lol wut?

 

[desy]

for air data, checking out the new model insight

 

[Eli]

I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius or 2nd generation Insight. 45MPG isn't my style.

 

[Nightrainsrt4]

The way I look at, it wouldn't have gotten to 400k+ miles if it was beat on. There's a few here on CL for 2900-3500.

 

[Eli]

The way I look at, it wouldn't have gotten to 400k+ miles if it was beat on. There's a few here on CL for 2900-3500.

Links?

I've been watching all of Craigslist like a hawk for the last month using SearchTempest.

I have seen two under $3000, including the one I'm buying. I have seen a couple in the $3000 - 4000 range, a few in the $5000-6000 range, and tons in the $7,000 - 12,000 range.

 

[Nightrainsrt4]

Who knows if they are scammers or whatever. I just quickly typed insight and saw them.

http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ctd/2240812736.html

http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ctd/2235542927.html

 

[Eli]

Who knows if they are scammers or whatever. I just quickly typed insight and saw them.

http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ctd/2240812736.html

http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ctd/2235542927.html

They're both autos. That's why they're so cheap overall. Still pretty good prices though.

CVT 1st gen Insights get ~10MPG worse mileage than manual transmission versions. At best.

 

[Doppel]

Anybody have a newer insight? I'm considering getting one of the new ones.

I may go saturday morning and drive one. I looked at them a few weeks ago and they're pretty nice. Inside is as big as the civic I had.

No. The new Insight is inferior to the Prius. Smaller, worse on gas, AC cuts off when at a light. It is cheaper, though.

I found a few of these cars, none for less than $6500. $2700 for a functioning one seems good regardless of miles as long as it works.

2002 Honda Insight Hybrid Auto 90K miles Spotless - $3450 (Braintree)

I found another on CL, that year, 10k less miles, for $9999. Obviously the prices are all over the place.

 

[Eli]

No. The new Insight is inferior to the Prius. Smaller, worse on gas, AC cuts off when at a light. It is cheaper, though.

I found a few of these cars, none for less than $6500. $2700 for a functioning one seems good regardless of miles as long as it works.

I found another on CL, that year, 10k less miles, for $9999. Obviously the prices are all over the place.

Finally someone gets it. The battery pack alone is worth $500...

Make sure to note whether the price is for an automatic or manual. The manuals are more desirable and are capable of much better overall MPG.

I'm hoping to get there on one tank and back on one tank. It's 805 miles each way, so I'll have to average better than 80MPG. That's fairly ambitious because usually, if conditions are favorable in one direction, they aren't in the other. According to the models, winds are supposed to be extremely light and almost non existent over the route, but we're still 77 hours out.. so that could change.

I will be logging my average speed on the way there. On the way back, we will both log our average speed. Will be interesting, lots of numbers to analyze. I just bought a ScanGauge and it will be here tomorrow. I currently have a radiator block on my car since it's winter, so I'm going to be monitoring coolant temps.

She won't be able to get very good MPG in the new one on the way back for a few reasons. First and foremost, she doesn't yet understand lean burn and how to utilize it. Second, the car doesn't have the OEM Bridgestone tires, it has some 175mm garbage. Even worse, it's missing two of the stock rims and is just using steelies. D: That's probably good for a 15MPG loss right there. That's why he's only getting 49MPG(as he states in his ad).

That will be the first expense. Two new(used) OEM wheels and four new tires. Actually, it will probably be eight because my car needs tires too. I'm going to try and talk him down to $2500 because of that and the fact that we had to spend money to come out there. Hopefully fuel costs will come in at under $70 for the whole ~1600 mile trip. Well, for my car that is.

The new one will probably be about $52 in gas just for the drive home.. LOL.

 

[kornphlake]

See post #43. I go into why mileage isn't the be all, end all of automobile wear and tear. There is a lot more to the story than that. Granted, we don't know a lot of the story, but we can make assumptions based on what I know of it's history. Remember, this is a one owner car. That's a good thing.

I am not as concerned about a car with 400k highway miles as I would be about a car with 200k city miles. It really shouldn't be hard to understand why.

It is entire possible(though unlikely, just trying to make a point) that this car has actually seen LESS total engine revolutions than a car driven in the city with 200,000 miles.

You're right though. The reason I keep comparing this car to cars with 200k is because.. there aren't very many Insights with over 200k... yet.

I did see one on Craigslist a while back with 360,000 miles.

As far as the frame cracking and stuff like that, I have no idea where you pulled that from. I've never heard of that and I seriously doubt it's a problem considering these cars make under 100HP.

400k miles of vibration is different than 200k miles of vibration, rather it was city or highway is irrelevant. Read up on fatigue stress and aluminum, it's a particular concern because the fatigue life of aluminum is significantly shorter than many other metals, especially when parts have been engineered to be as light as possible. It takes hundreds of thousands or millions or billions of cycles before fatigue stress becomes an issue, but once it is an issue the metal is essentially worn out. I have no idea of Honda's reputation with aluminum unibody construction around the turn of the century (saying it that way makes 10 years sound like a long time ago) it took the bicycle industry about 10 years to build aluminum mountain bikes that would last more than a couple seasons and they're significantly less complex machines with much lower levels of stress.

It may be speculation on my part, I have no idea where or how aluminum is used in the insight's unibody. Honda could have considered fatigue stress and engineered the vehicle to withstand 1 million miles before reaching the fatigue limit. I'm just using fatigue cracking as an example of the type of problem you will encounter because your vehicle has 2x the average miles for a car of that age. I don't think it is a correct assumption to say that 200k city miles is equal to 400k highway miles, certain components may have the same amount of wear based on hours of operation, but other components will wear in direct correlation to the number of wheel revolutions regardless of speed.

 

[Eli]

400k miles of vibration is different than 200k miles of vibration, rather it was city or highway is irrelevant. Read up on fatigue stress and aluminum, it's a particular concern because the fatigue life of aluminum is significantly shorter than many other metals, especially when parts have been engineered to be as light as possible. It takes hundreds of thousands or millions or billions of cycles before fatigue stress becomes an issue, but once it is an issue the metal is essentially worn out. I have no idea of Honda's reputation with aluminum unibody construction around the turn of the century (saying it that way makes 10 years sound like a long time ago) it took the bicycle industry about 10 years to build aluminum mountain bikes that would last more than a couple seasons and they're significantly less complex machines with much lower levels of stress.

It may be speculation on my part, I have no idea where or how aluminum is used in the insight's unibody. Honda could have considered fatigue stress and engineered the vehicle to withstand 1 million miles before reaching the fatigue limit. I'm just using fatigue cracking as an example of the type of problem you will encounter because your vehicle has 2x the average miles for a car of that age. I don't think it is a correct assumption to say that 200k city miles is equal to 400k highway miles, certain components may have the same amount of wear based on hours of operation, but other components will wear in direct correlation to the number of wheel revolutions regardless of speed.

You do bring up good points and I really have no idea. I've never even heard of such a thing in the automotive industry, though I'm sure it exists.

It just seems insane to worry about the unibody wearing out before the engine, LOL. I mean how would this even manifest itself?

I am not exactly worried about the frame being worn out, and there's no way I'm even going to check for such a thing. I will, however, check the engine's compression and other vitals...

 

[kornphlake]

You do bring up good points and I really have no idea. I've never even heard of such a thing in the automotive industry, though I'm sure it exists.

It just seems insane to worry about the unibody wearing out before the engine, LOL. I mean how would this even manifest itself?

I am not exactly worried about the frame being worn out, and there's no way I'm even going to check for such a thing. I will, however, check the engine's compression and other vitals...

You can replace the engine or transmission, the unibody is pretty difficult to replace which is why I'd be concerned about a vehicle with such high mileage. It's impossible to know one way or another, the number of Insights with that many miles is so small that nobody will know what kind of problems to expect. At this point you're the guinea pig, you get to find any problems on your own and decide if they are repairable. Worst case you're only into this thing a couple grand, if you drive it for a year and something breaks and can not be repaired you can part it out and still come out ahead.

I'm less of a risk taker I guess, I wouldn't consider a vehicle with that many miles as anything more than a conversation piece. My car is just shy of 200k miles, the consensus on enthusiast forums is as long as I keep the oil level up it will keep going another 100k. I believe it might hit 250k miles or more with a few expected repairs, I still don't drive anywhere without my AAA card though.

 

[Doppel]

Even if 440k is unusual out of 12k or more of these things sold if the unibody was a concern I imagine a few people would have had problems so far. I bet that shy of an accident it's just really not worth worrying about.

 

[caffeinestix]

Does anyone know how much a new battery pack costs if the one that's in there needs replacing?

 

[Eli]

You can replace the engine or transmission, the unibody is pretty difficult to replace which is why I'd be concerned about a vehicle with such high mileage. It's impossible to know one way or another, the number of Insights with that many miles is so small that nobody will know what kind of problems to expect. At this point you're the guinea pig, you get to find any problems on your own and decide if they are repairable. Worst case you're only into this thing a couple grand, if you drive it for a year and something breaks and can not be repaired you can part it out and still come out ahead.

I'm less of a risk taker I guess, I wouldn't consider a vehicle with that many miles as anything more than a conversation piece. My car is just shy of 200k miles, the consensus on enthusiast forums is as long as I keep the oil level up it will keep going another 100k. I believe it might hit 250k miles or more with a few expected repairs, I still don't drive anywhere without my AAA card though.

Like I said, I find high mileage vehicles endearing. I'm not worried about it. It makes sense on a technical level, but .. I really honestly don't think it applies. I wish someone with more knowledge in this area would chime in. To think that the unibody of an automobile would be worn out after 500,000 miles or even 1,000,000 miles is insane. It's never going to rust.. It should be on the road for much, much, much longer than a steel bodied car in the rust belt, and have far less structural integrity issues.

My brother owns an 80s Volvo brick with over 1,000,000 miles on it. It was in the same family until he bought it, and it was used to travel back and forth between LA and NY for years. It still starts up and runs great. Original engine, stick shift.

440,000 miles isn't really a lot. It's a lot for a personally owned vehicle, but... not in the scheme of things.

 

[Eli]

Does anyone know how much a new battery pack costs if the one that's in there needs replacing?

Out of warranty, it costs about $3000 from the dealer. There's at least one person that specializes in it, and they can rebuild a pack for about $1000.

 

[Squisher]

440,000 miles isn't really a lot.

 

[alfa147x]

Out of warranty, it costs about $3000 from the dealer. There's at least one person that specializes in it, and they can rebuild a pack for about $1000.

Iv been reading about people repurposing prius batteries for use in the Insight