Weight lifting Glove option

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: TallBill
I agree, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just feel that a fact-based suggestion is absorbed easier then a mandate.

But even so, if someone does only do 15 minutes of pushups and curls per week wearing gloves and a lifting belt the whole time, who am I to tell him otherwise?

You would, er... be a godsend.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: TallBill
I agree, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just feel that a fact-based suggestion is absorbed easier then a mandate.

But even so, if someone does only do 15 minutes of pushups and curls per week wearing gloves and a lifting belt the whole time, who am I to tell him otherwise?

You would, er... be a godsend.

Heh, indeed.

 

[Red Dawn]

I've been wearing gloves for the fourteen years I've been lifting and I haven't notice it causing my grip to weaken. I actually started wearing them because I incorporated working on a heavy bag for my cardio part of my workout and I found my knuckles getting torn up on the tape n the bag. Well after warming up on the bag I never bothered to take them off for lifting and I just got use to them.

I find it humorous that relative newbs to lifting seem to have such a high opinion of themselves to declare that it's pussy to use them. I see fucks like that in the gym all the time, you know the type, those that walk around with the arms out pretending their lats are massive. BTW even though I use them I still have callouses. I can only imagine what they'd be like if I didn't use gloves.

It's a personal choice, if you don't use them it doesn't make you more manly just like if you do use them it doesn't make you a puss.

 

[evident]

is there a technical reason not to wear gloves besides that "they are for pussies"? i use gloves all the time.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: evident
is there a technical reason not to wear gloves besides that "they are for pussies"? i use gloves all the time.

Yes, there is. I already explained this in my previous reply:

Originally posted by: brikis98
The general argument against gloves is that they effectively increase the diameter of the bar, making it harder to hold on. Moreover, they only prevent pain/calluses if they fit very well and even then only in certain situations. For example, if your hand moves over the bar a lot during the exercise - such as during a muscle up - gloves can help prevent the friction from hitting your skin directly. However, in exercises where your hand stays in one spot on the bar, such as the deadlift, gloves don't do much to prevent the weight from pushing down hand, pinching skin, etc.

You can also read the argument against gloves on the Stronglifts website. And, finally, to quote Rippetoe:

"The only legitimate use for a glove is to cover an injury... A desire to prevent callus formation (possibly so as to not snag one's pantyhose) does not constitute a legitimate use. And if you do insist on wearing gloves, make sure they match your purse."

 

[Deeko]

They do have the unavoidable effect of make the bar thicker and thus harder to grip - but if your grip is strong enough that it doesn't negatively affect you, it really doesn't matter if you use gloves or not. To call it "wrong" is, well, wrong.

 

[GenHoth]

If you wanted to prevent callous formation and didn't mind the extra diameter, would gloves work?

Also this is a hypothetical, I'm curious so humor me.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: evident
is there a technical reason not to wear gloves besides that "they are for pussies"? i use gloves all the time.

Yes, there is. I already explained this in my previous reply:

Originally posted by: brikis98
The general argument against gloves is that they effectively increase the diameter of the bar, making it harder to hold on. Moreover, they only prevent pain/calluses if they fit very well and even then only in certain situations. For example, if your hand moves over the bar a lot during the exercise - such as during a muscle up - gloves can help prevent the friction from hitting your skin directly. However, in exercises where your hand stays in one spot on the bar, such as the deadlift, gloves don't do much to prevent the weight from pushing down hand, pinching skin, etc.

You can also read the argument against gloves on the Stronglifts website. And, finally, to quote Rippetoe:

"The only legitimate use for a glove is to cover an injury... A desire to prevent callus formation (possibly so as to not snag one's pantyhose) does not constitute a legitimate use. And if you do insist on wearing gloves, make sure they match your purse."

I think he, like you , has to much muscle between his ears.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I think he, like you , has to much muscle between his ears.

Thank you for adding that insightful comment to this discussion. We are all the better for having heard it...

Originally posted by: GenHoth
If you wanted to prevent callous formation and didn't mind the extra diameter, would gloves work?

Also this is a hypothetical, I'm curious so humor me.

No, not really. They can help in some circumstances, but in most cases they don't help at all and just get in the way. See my previous reply for more info. Even Red Dawn, who so intelligently defends using gloves said "BTW even though I use them I still have callouses."

 

[Deeko]

ah ha - so its perfectly ok & quotable for Rippetoe to infer someone is feminine for using gloves, for which there is no logical backing, but if Red responds in a similar fashion, you mock him for not being helpful? And you wonder why TallBill says

The "advice" isn't necessarily being presented in a respectful manner.

Some of the posters in H&F have a serious problem with this. No one can EVER have a dissenting opinion - ZOMGZ RIPPETOE SAID SO RAAAH HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE SS IS MY BIBLE11!!!!1

edit: obviously I'm exaggerating there, but the message is still the same.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I think he, like you , has to much muscle between his ears.

Thank you for adding that insightful comment to this discussion. We are all the better for having heard it...

Originally posted by: GenHoth
If you wanted to prevent callous formation and didn't mind the extra diameter, would gloves work?

Also this is a hypothetical, I'm curious so humor me.

No, not really. They can help in some circumstances, but in most cases they don't help at all and just get in the way. See my previous reply for more info. Even Red Dawn, who so intelligently defends using gloves said "BTW even though I use them I still have callouses."

Well Meat just imagine the callouses I'd have if I didn't use them. It's douchebags like you who give weight trainers a bad name. What you don't seem to grasp is that weight training is an individual endeavor, what's good for one person might not be good for another. For you to have the audacity to judge someone because they choose to use a piece of equipment that you may not use just shows what a small minded twat you are.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I think he, like you , has to much muscle between his ears.

Thank you for adding that insightful comment to this discussion. We are all the better for having heard it...

Originally posted by: GenHoth
If you wanted to prevent callous formation and didn't mind the extra diameter, would gloves work?

Also this is a hypothetical, I'm curious so humor me.

No, not really. They can help in some circumstances, but in most cases they don't help at all and just get in the way. See my previous reply for more info. Even Red Dawn, who so intelligently defends using gloves said "BTW even though I use them I still have callouses."

Well Meat just imagine the callouses I'd have if I didn't use them. It's douchebags like you who give weight trainers a bad name. What you don't seem to grasp is that weight training is an individual endeavor, what's good for one person might not be good for another. For you to have the audacity to judge someone because they choose to use a piece of equipment that you may not use just shows what a small minded twat you are.

Especially when you're quoting it out of a crossfit journal or starting strength book and have not come up with the conclusion yourself.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Deeko
ah ha - so its perfectly ok & quotable for Rippetoe to infer someone is feminine for using gloves, for which there is no logical backing, but if Red responds in a similar fashion, you mock him for not being helpful? And you wonder why TallBill says

The "advice" isn't necessarily being presented in a respectful manner.

Some of the posters in H&F have a serious problem with this. No one can EVER have a dissenting opinion - ZOMGZ RIPPETOE SAID SO RAAAH HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE SS IS MY BIBLE11!!!!1

edit: obviously I'm exaggerating there, but the message is still the same.

Are you serious? Let's compare:

I post a quote from a guy who is a well respected for his knowledge of weight lifting as well as known for a lot of exaggerated, in-your-face humor. It was clearly meant as a humorous way to add to my argument (which also included support from Stronglifts) and not as an insult.

Now, you seem to get offended at that, but you're perfectly ok with Red Dawn's response: "I think he, like you, has to much muscle between his ears." No argument, just an insult thrown at me. You don't seem bothered by it that at all. In fact, the only reason you commented is you have some personal vendetta against Rippetoe. Let it go man, let it go.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Well Meat just imagine the callouses I'd have if I didn't use them.

I don't have to imagine, I've lifted my whole life without gloves. The calluses form and once they are there, they don't keep growing. If you take care of them, they do not look/feel any different after a few months than after a few years. In fact, mine are probably less visible now than they were before. The skin is thicker and can handle the wear and tear much better than before. And no, I don't have complaints from my girlfriend or anyone else.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It's douchebags like you who give weight trainers a bad name. What you don't seem to grasp is that weight training is an individual endeavor, what's good for one person might not be good for another. For you to have the audacity to judge someone because they choose to use a piece of equipment that you may not use just shows what a small minded twat you are.

I'm tired of repeating it, but this is the health & fitness forum where people often go for advice (including the starter of this thread). If I feel that the advice you are giving is not appropriate, I have every right to say so. Everyone does exactly that. You see someone doing a crappy routine? It's ok to suggest a more effective one and explain why it's more effective. See someone doing half or quarter squats? It's ok to suggest full squats and explain why they are more effective and safer. This is what the forum is all about. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you, then maybe you need to move on.

Originally posted by: TallBill
Especially when you're quoting it out of a crossfit journal or starting strength book and have not come up with the conclusion yourself.

Oh no! I'm quoting from reputable sources! What a travesty, to provide information that is well researched by experts in the field and respected by countless members of the weight lifting community! You're right, we should ignore these quotes because they come from these sources and trust you guys instead.

 

[TallBill]

I'm tired of repeating it, but this is the health & fitness forum where people often go for advice (including the starter of this thread). If I feel that the advice you are giving is not appropriate, I have every right to say so. Everyone does exactly that. You see someone doing a crappy routine? It's ok to suggest a more effective one and explain why it's more effective. See someone doing half or quarter squats? It's ok to suggest full squats and explain why they are more effective and safer. This is what the forum is all about. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you, then maybe you need to move on.

And the wheel goes round and round. You were not suggesting anything, you were demanding.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Deeko
ah ha - so its perfectly ok & quotable for Rippetoe to infer someone is feminine for using gloves, for which there is no logical backing, but if Red responds in a similar fashion, you mock him for not being helpful? And you wonder why TallBill says

The "advice" isn't necessarily being presented in a respectful manner.

Some of the posters in H&F have a serious problem with this. No one can EVER have a dissenting opinion - ZOMGZ RIPPETOE SAID SO RAAAH HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE SS IS MY BIBLE11!!!!1

edit: obviously I'm exaggerating there, but the message is still the same.

Are you serious? Let's compare:

I post a quote from a guy who is a well respected for his knowledge of weight lifting as well as known for a lot of exaggerated, in-your-face humor. It was clearly meant as a humorous way to add to my argument (which also included support from Stronglifts) and not as an insult.

Now, you seem to get offended at that, but you're perfectly ok with Red Dawn's response: "I think he, like you, has to much muscle between his ears." No argument, just an insult thrown at me. You don't seem bothered by it that at all. In fact, the only reason you commented is you have some personal vendetta against Rippetoe. Let it go man, let it go.

Silly kid. You just don't get it, do you? He was responding to your insult with an insult. He was insulting you for refusing to accept another opinion - you were insulting him for HAVING another opinion. He came in here refuting your "my way or the highway" response. He CORRECTLY proved you wrong, as did several others in the thread. Your childish response is to quote yourself from earlier and then insult everyone that wears gloves. So he insulted you back. And then you got all pissy about him not providing more context - when in fact you gave no more context in your insulting reply, either (we already covered thickness/grip, another link with the same information is useless). You don't understand your lapse in rationality here?

As for me and Rippetoe - I will tell you again. For probably the 20th time. I have nothing against Rippetoe. I have Starting Strength, and I've read it, and I've said that its good information. The difference between me and the zombies is that I don't worship him like some sort of weight lifting deity - I realize that dissenting opinions exist, and in many cases - those opinions are just as valuable! Its amazing how that works!

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: brikis98
I'm tired of repeating it, but this is the health & fitness forum where people often go for advice (including the starter of this thread). If I feel that the advice you are giving is not appropriate, I have every right to say so. Everyone does exactly that. You see someone doing a crappy routine? It's ok to suggest a more effective one and explain why it's more effective. See someone doing half or quarter squats? It's ok to suggest full squats and explain why they are more effective and safer. This is what the forum is all about. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you, then maybe you need to move on.

How ironic that you are complaining about someone not being able to handle disagreement. Hell, I don't even disagree with you most of the time - I just point out that there are alternatives and it is foolish to think one way is gospel - and you get your panties in a bunch every time. The smug cloud...so thick! I pray you never meet George Clooney!

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: evident
is there a technical reason not to wear gloves besides that "they are for pussies"? i use gloves all the time.

Yes, there is. I already explained this in my previous reply:

Originally posted by: brikis98
The general argument against gloves is that they effectively increase the diameter of the bar, making it harder to hold on. Moreover, they only prevent pain/calluses if they fit very well and even then only in certain situations. For example, if your hand moves over the bar a lot during the exercise - such as during a muscle up - gloves can help prevent the friction from hitting your skin directly. However, in exercises where your hand stays in one spot on the bar, such as the deadlift, gloves don't do much to prevent the weight from pushing down hand, pinching skin, etc.

You can also read the argument against gloves on the Stronglifts website. And, finally, to quote Rippetoe:

"The only legitimate use for a glove is to cover an injury... A desire to prevent callus formation (possibly so as to not snag one's pantyhose) does not constitute a legitimate use. And if you do insist on wearing gloves, make sure they match your purse."

 

[presidentender]

I assert that increasing the diameter of the bar, making it more difficult to hold, can constitute a benefit (to grip strength) in and of itself. This is why "fat bars" exist. I would rather use a fat bar, wrap a towel around a normal bar, or do a grip-specific exercise; however, I see some legitimacy in the use of gloves by others.

Claims that they "leak estrogen" or "are for pussies" are foolish and needlessly inflammatory. Holy wars don't help anyone.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: TallBill
And the wheel goes round and round. You were not suggesting anything, you were demanding.

I think there is a huge difference between giving advice and demanding. Let's look at some examples:

Demanding: You must never use gloves, or else! I order you to cease immediately or you will become a worthless human being!

Advice: Don't use gloves. Let your hands adapt and take care of the calluses. Use chalk if necessary. (my first post in this thread)

Demanding: Gloves are bad! I have absolutely no explanation for my stance, but you should never use gloves!

Advice: The general argument against gloves is that they effectively increase the diameter of the bar, making it harder to hold on. Moreover, they only prevent pain/calluses if they fit very well and even then only in certain situations. For example, if your hand moves over the bar a lot during the exercise - such as during a muscle up - gloves can help prevent the friction from hitting your skin directly. However, in exercises where your hand stays in one spot on the bar, such as the deadlift, gloves don't do much to prevent the weight from pushing down hand, pinching skin, etc. (my second post in this thread)

See the difference?

 

[GenHoth]

Is there a way to prevent callouses? Again, humor me. I don't see how you could and I'm curious. Would you simply have to use a pumice stone to wear them down?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Silly kid. You just don't get it, do you? He was responding to your insult with an insult.

Silly kid. You just can't read, can you? [See how these kinds of sentences don't help the discussion at all? Try to avoid them in the future.]

I already explained that the quote I included from Rippetoe was a joke, an attempt at adding a funny touch to the point I was trying to make, and not an insult directed at anyone. The comments from Red Dawn were clearly an insult directed at me and nothing else. He was responding to my argument with an insult. Big difference.

Originally posted by: Deeko
He was insulting you for refusing to accept another opinion - you were insulting him for HAVING another opinion.

I would be "refusing" to accept his opinion if all I did was just say "no, you're wrong" and not offer any counter argument. In reality, I provided a list of my reasons, a link to the reasons on Stronglifts and a quote from Rippetoe to explain my stance. Moreover, look closely: the post in question was my reply to evident's question. It was NOT a reply to Red Dawn. Despite that, he felt the need to reply to me and instead of presenting an argument, he just tried to insult me. If anyone is refusing to accept another opinion, it's him.

Originally posted by: Deeko
He CORRECTLY proved you wrong, as did several others in the thread.

Where exactly did he (and others) "correctly" prove me wrong? Was it the part where he agreed with my statement that gloves don't prevent calluses? Or the part where he called anyone arguing against gloves a "relative newb" and that he sees "fucks like that" all the time? As far as I know, none of that disproves that gloves don't accomplish either of their common goals: they don't help you grip the bar, as they effectively make the bar thicker and harder to hold on to (something YOU said yourself) and they don't help protect your skin much as calluses still form.

Originally posted by: Deeko
As for me and Rippetoe - I will tell you again. For probably the 20th time. I have nothing against Rippetoe. I have Starting Strength, and I've read it, and I've said that its good information. The difference between me and the zombies is that I don't worship him like some sort of weight lifting deity - I realize that dissenting opinions exist, and in many cases - those opinions are just as valuable! Its amazing how that works!

And I will tell you again - jumping all over people for bringing up Rippetoe's advice just because it's Rippetoe's advice is not helpful. If you want to argue against the opinion presented, go ahead. But freaking out every time someone quotes Rippetoe and calling them zombies is just a waste of everyone's time.

Originally posted by: Deeko
How ironic that you are complaining about someone not being able to handle disagreement. Hell, I don't even disagree with you most of the time - I just point out that there are alternatives and it is foolish to think one way is gospel - and you get your panties in a bunch every time. The smug cloud...so thick! I pray you never meet George Clooney!

If I don't agree with something you post, I'll argue with it. If others agree with my argument - especially a "trusted" source like Rippetoe, Stronglifts, or Crossfit - that only strengthens my case. If you can't defend your stance when I argue with you, freaking out and shouting "rippetoe zombie!" does not make your opinion any more valid.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: TallBill
And the wheel goes round and round. You were not suggesting anything, you were demanding.

I think there is a huge difference between giving advice and demanding. Let's look at some examples:

Demanding: You must never use gloves, or else! I order you to cease immediately or you will become a worthless human being!

Advice: Don't use gloves. Let your hands adapt and take care of the calluses. Use chalk if necessary. (my first post in this thread)

Demanding: Gloves are bad! I have absolutely no explanation for my stance, but you should never use gloves!

Advice: The general argument against gloves is that they effectively increase the diameter of the bar, making it harder to hold on. Moreover, they only prevent pain/calluses if they fit very well and even then only in certain situations. For example, if your hand moves over the bar a lot during the exercise - such as during a muscle up - gloves can help prevent the friction from hitting your skin directly. However, in exercises where your hand stays in one spot on the bar, such as the deadlift, gloves don't do much to prevent the weight from pushing down hand, pinching skin, etc. (my second post in this thread)

See the difference?

Yeah, you look more and more like an ass with every post in this thread.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: GenHoth
Is there a way to prevent callouses? Again, humor me. I don't see how you could and I'm curious. Would you simply have to use a pumice stone to wear them down?

Calluses are your skin's adaptation to stress/pressure. They are one of the many adaptations, along with larger muscles and stronger bones, that makes your body more efficient at lifting weights. In other words, as long as you continue to lift, you wouldn't really want to get rid of them.

However, they don't have to interfere with your life. The first month or so while they develop (when you first start doing deadlifts, for example), you will often have a lot of dead skin wherever the pressure is being applied (for deadlifts, this will be the hands). After a while though, these will form calluses that will move under the skin and will be FAR less noticeable. Occasionally, even a developed callus will raise up and get pinched, but that can be easily dealt with. Beastskills has a good callus care tutorial. Follow it once a week and you can keep your calluses flat/level with your hand, and hence indistinguishable from the rest of your skin without a close inspection.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: TallBill
And the wheel goes round and round. You were not suggesting anything, you were demanding.

I think there is a huge difference between giving advice and demanding. Let's look at some examples:

Demanding: You must never use gloves, or else! I order you to cease immediately or you will become a worthless human being!

Advice: Don't use gloves. Let your hands adapt and take care of the calluses. Use chalk if necessary. (my first post in this thread)

Demanding: Gloves are bad! I have absolutely no explanation for my stance, but you should never use gloves!

Advice: The general argument against gloves is that they effectively increase the diameter of the bar, making it harder to hold on. Moreover, they only prevent pain/calluses if they fit very well and even then only in certain situations. For example, if your hand moves over the bar a lot during the exercise - such as during a muscle up - gloves can help prevent the friction from hitting your skin directly. However, in exercises where your hand stays in one spot on the bar, such as the deadlift, gloves don't do much to prevent the weight from pushing down hand, pinching skin, etc. (my second post in this thread)

See the difference?

Yeah, you look more and more like an ass with every post in this thread.

Another genuinely helpful reply. I offer an argument, you offer an insult.

 

[Deeko]

Its ironic that you are attempting to critique my debate style, seeing as you very rarely debate my substance, only my style. Scroll up, sport - there's several purely substance based replies that you've ignored. But as soon as I mention your love of Rippetoe, the panties wad up. Its also very cute how you backtrack on the insult thing. Multiple people call using gloves to be "pussification". Multiple people refute that claim - so you post a quote from your Lord & Savior calling people women for using gloves. How are people NOT supposed to take that as an insult? You can't really be that dense.

I will repeat - again - since apparently you ARE that dense - I do not rip people for bringing up Rippetoe. I rip people for being extremely narrow minded and only accepting a small group of sources as worthy. Those are the "zombies". I will repeat - again - that there are indeed other sources out there, and their advice is just as valuable as yours, whether you'd like it or not. Including empirical evidence by those on this forum. If you say "gloves hurt your grip" and Red replies "I used gloves and its never hurt my grip", who are you to say he shouldn't be using gloves because it will hurt his grip?

Red Dawn, presidentender, and myself all presented very valid refutes to your claim that you shouldn't use gloves because it hurts your grip. You have ignored all of them and simply repeated your earlier statement. If that isn't refusal to accept a dissenting opinion, I don't know what is.