What substance? Let me refer you to your reply:
You're not arguing anything about the glove discussion here, you're just throwing your arms up in the air because someone dared to mention Rippetoe. If you don't actually post anything of substance, I can't really debate anything of substance.
If you really can't tell the difference between a quote included for its wit/humor and an insult directly aimed at someone, there is no point in continuing to argue about it.
I believe your reading comprehension needs a little work. My argument against gloves the ENTIRE time has been that they don't accomplish either of their main goals:
1. They have trouble holding onto the bar and think gloves will help
2. Their hands hurt and they are trying to avoid blisters/calluses
Since gloves effectively make the bar thicker, they actually make it harder to hold on to it. This is something you and presidentender both wrote in your own posts. Therefore, gloves fail at goal #1. Moreover, in most cases, gloves don't actually help prevent calluses/blisters. Even Red Dawn's post confirmed that you still get calluses with gloves. This means they fail at goal #2.
No where in my argument did I say gloves "hurt your grip" in the sense that they somehow make your grip weaker. Go back and carefully read my replies. To lift the same amount of weight with gloves, your grip might actually have to be stronger to overcome the thicker bar, so there is no reason to assume they would weaken the grip. However, gloves are not an efficient (and according to Stronglifts, not a safe) way to develop grip strength. Even more importantly, almost no one buys gloves with "increasing grip strength" as their motivation. It's almost always with goals #1 or #2 in mind and my argument is that gloves fail at BOTH of these, which no one has refuted!
The ONLY place where I mentioned something potentially hampering/weakening your grip strength were weightlifting straps, not gloves. Newbies who become over-reliant on straps often stop developing their grip. It is only your inability to read that has made you assume that I am arguing "gloves hurt your grip".
Deeko
Lifer
- Jun 16, 2000
- 30,213
- 12
- 81
Yes....try again sport....I already mentioned that you replied to that one. Read the thread again, I'm not going to do it for you.
I'll take that as an admission of you being an asshole. I'm pretty sure I've had to explain this to you before, but since it didn't sink in then, I'll tell you again, perception is reality. If you're posting a quote by a source that you openly consider to be the end-all-be-all source on the subject - and that quote is insulting people, in the middle of a discussion where we're debating whether or not that insult is valid - there is absolutely no other way to take it other than an insult to those who were gloves. None. 0. Nada. You literally cannot disagree with that. If you meant otherwise, it really doesn't matter, because every person that read that quote read it the way I did.
[/quote]
*sigh* brikis brikis brikis. You don't get it, do you? No one is refuting that gloves make it the bar thicker and thus harder to grip. In fact, I was the first person in the thread to mention that. However - what I and several others are saying, and you can't seem to wrap your narrow mind around - is that if your grip is strong enough to the point that gloves do not hamper your ability to grip the bar, then it does not matter if you use them. It might not help you, but it doesn't really hurt you, and it certainly does not make you a pussy. Its really not that hard to understand.
The subject of straps - if you go bare handed until the point of grip failure, and then use straps after that, you will in no way hamper your grip development. None at all. You are getting an additional workout on some of the muscle groups you're exercising, while working your grip as much as you can. Grip tends to 'catch up' to everything else, so you aren't harming anything by doing this - by the time your grip is capable of holding the heavy weights, you're already ahead of where you'd be if you hadn't used straps in your earlier training. All benefit, no harm when used properly.
If the gloves don't help you hold on to the bar and they don't prevent calluses, then there is no benefit to them. If anything, there may even be negatives (safety, technique issues, etc) as explained in the Stronglifts article. If that's the case, why would you ever recommend gloves? In fact, if we look back to the beginning of this thread, even YOU didn't recommend gloves:
You only changed your tune when I mentioned Rippetoe in a later reply. Very classy Deeko, very classy.
I've never argued with this. Again, I quote you my earlier reply that mentioned straps:
They key things to notice are that I said straps often - not always - slow grip development. If you train your grip an appropriate amount - such as going barehand until failure, as you suggested - then straps will not cause any issues. However, the problem is that many people use straps to avoid proper grip training. I've seen it over and over again: they start using straps for sub-maximal sets of deadlifts, to hold dumbbells and even to hold on to the pull-up bar. They use straps not at the point where their grip starts to fail, but as soon as they feel pain in their hands. As soon as this pain threshold is reached, they switch to straps. If this threshold is never increased - and it won't increase if they immediately switch to straps - then their grip development stalls and their grip will never 'catch up'. Few people, especially newbies, use straps properly, which is why I typically discourage them. However, I clearly said that more advanced lifters - those with a proper understanding of grip training and strap usage - should use straps when appropriate.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
Well if was worried about callouses I'd get a new pair every year instead of using the ones I have that are beat to shit. I just got use to them and prefer them to going bare handed. Like I said it's all about ones preferences and it doesn't mean I should get a purse to match you wanker.
Deeko
Lifer
- Jun 16, 2000
- 30,213
- 12
- 81
I 'changed my tune' after people in the thread pointed out cases where it doesn't hurt. Your subsequent responses were not the catalyst, don't get THAT full of yourself. Seemingly unlike you, I am capable of 'changing my tune' and admitting that what I said isn't true in 100% of cases.
The stronglifts article basically frames the "it makes the bar thicker and harder to hold" argument as 3 different points. The only "legitimate" point otherwise is that they aren't allowed in competition - but if you're advanced enough to be competing, I think you're capable of taking off the gloves without it killing your performance.
I will repeat....yet again.....even if there is no benefit, if grip strength isn't the issue, then there is no real harm. So it doesn't matter. Would I recommend gloves? Obviously not. But if the case I mentioned above, I'll freely admit that they aren't hurting themselves.
[/quote]
I was mostly referring to the part I bolded - you somewhat contradicted yourself within that post - and this is not an argument we haven't had in the past. Of course if straps become a crutch then its a problem - but when used properly, they are a useful training aid even for non-advanced lifters.
Again, you lack reading comprehension. Yes, all 3 of those points are caused by the bar being thicker, but they are 3 separate consequences. So far, most people in this thread only mentioned one of these consequences: a thicker bar makes the exercise harder, so the same person would be able to hold onto less weight with gloves than without. However, the other two consequences of a thicker bar are no less valid. If the bar bar is harder to hold onto, it can actually make the exercise more dangerous. We've all seen the youtube videos of guys doing bench press and dropping the weights onto their chest/neck. Anything that increases the chances of this should probably be avoided. And if the gloves prevent you from using optimal technique, then this will decrease how much weight you can lift with gloves (as opposed to without) even further.
This argument pivots around the question of whether the benefit of using gloves outweighs the harm. It's clearly not a black and white issue, but my personal opinion is that there is some potential harm, and I don't think the benefits (if there are any) outweigh this harm. I've presented my reasons for this stance and this is why I recommend against using gloves.
In response, I don't think a compelling argument has been made in favor of the benefits of gloves (other than people basically saying "I use them and they don't bother me") and no one is refuting the potential negatives (everyone agrees it makes the bar thicker). You're free to interpret what has been posted in your own way, but don't get so upset if someone doesn't agree with you.
Then why the hell are you giving me so much grief for also not recommending gloves?
Yea, we already went through the whole strap argument. I doubt we have anything new to add, so I'd rather not do it again. I only brought up straps to point out that I *never* said gloves "weaken" your grip and the only way you could've interpreted it that way is if you confused it with my stance on straps.
SociallyChallenged
Elite
- Mar 22, 2002
- 10,483
- 32
- 81
conorvansmack
Diamond Member
- Feb 24, 2004
- 5,041
- 0
- 76
Than?
I didn't think this thread would have half the legs that it seems to. I figure that it comes down to opinion about discomfort, but the OP seems to have dropped out. I guess we might not find out what he decides to do.
FWIW, no gloves here. My calluses have receded and are pretty useful as my deadlift slowly increases.
Good point. I think this thread definitely got a bit out of hand and off topic and left the OP's original concerns far behind. I'm at fault for that as much as anyone, so I think I'll stop arguing and only respond if some new question actually comes up. I think everyone has said what they wanted to say about gloves and hopefully the OP can dig through the BS to find the proper info and decide for himself.
conorvansmack
Diamond Member
- Feb 24, 2004
- 5,041
- 0
- 76
SociallyChallenged
Elite
- Mar 22, 2002
- 10,483
- 32
- 81
I've heard coach has some really nice leather options to along. Color coding will definitely be the hardest.
If anybody does kettlebell snatches, they'll want to use gloves. I still do. Regular weights and using the olympic rings, though, I don't.
It's funny you say that.. I do KB snatches without gloves, but use them in my normal workout. I'm curious to know how they help; I'm willing to try it out.
And a general question - I've been lifting for years using gloves where the strap wraps around the wrist. I like the extra support because of an old wrist injury. Can anyone tell me if those would be detrimental?
SociallyChallenged
Elite
- Mar 22, 2002
- 10,483
- 32
- 81
I do KB snatches as well without gloves. Gloves and KB sound like a terrible combo. Part of the goal of KBs is to really hit your grip hard. Gloves will make it more awkward and even harder. I don't know what kind of gloves you use, but if you're supporting a weak point, I'd say it might be time to rehab the weak point so you can do it naturally. If you can't get it back to the point that you can do KB snatches without gloves, then there's no real worry about using the gloves.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 384
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
Facebook
Twitter