We’re on the verge of a great, great depression. The [Federal Reserve] knows it.

[Ape]

Oh, now it's premium gas? Your yardstick changes more often than the weather.

edit:

The Department of Energy says you're still wrong. No surprise there.

www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.xls

Those are average prices correct? So in his area he could have spent that much as others would have spent less. Also do those prices take into account local taxes? Just asking not attacking as I never saw 5 in my area either.

 

[Craig234]

I thought all the government stimulus was supposed to create millions and millions of jobs? Thats what we were all told . . . well, there was some fluctuation in the numbers depending on who was talking and on which channel.

Ya know, when someone just makes a problem less bad, even if that's a big deal, it's hard to get credit for it.

So, if the stimulus prevented the second 'great depression' from getting a lot worse, your response, who cares.

 

[wirednuts]

"We need to find real yield and real returns on these assets. You see bad data, you see Treasurys rally, you see all bonds and all fixed-income rally and then the people who are betting against the U.S. economy start getting bearish on stocks. That’s a huge mistake."

**COUgH COUGH MANUFACTURING COUGH COUGH**

im not worried. china is closing in on cost of manufacturing. their hourly wages are going up, and ive been reading estimates that in about 5 years it simply will NOT be cheaper to produce things in china. manufacturing WILL come back stateside, and we will see an economic boom (recovery) because of it. its estimated that even if the average chinese worker is 4x cheaper, they can only produce 1/3 of what an average american worker can. its only a matter of a few more years before that gap closes, and we are gaming on fair playing fields. yes, im sure the chinese worker will get a little more productive, but not dramatically in the next few years- but their standard of living is skyrocketing, so there is plenty of hope for us.

 

[chucky2]

Don't bet on it, a ton of manufacturing coming back to the US. It moved to China because it could be done dirt cheap. When it costs 'too much' to make sh1t cheap in China, the businesses will just go to another sh1thole and exploit those countries.

 

[BeauJangles]

Those are average prices correct? So in his area he could have spent that much as others would have spent less. Also do those prices take into account local taxes? Just asking not attacking as I never saw 5 in my area either.

I can't say because I only found that via Google. According to the header at the top, it does take into account taxes. I tried to compare the last twelve months of data on that chart with data on regular gas available from AAA and found that the prices listed there were about what the surcharge is for premium.

Dave's full of crap either way, premium gas didn't touch $5 gallon on average at any point over the last decade. It may have climbed that high in certain locations, but that, of course, wasn't what he predicted.

 

[Squisher]

Actually, there is spike in gas prices here in the midwest because of some broken Canadian pipeline.

 

[Ape]

I can't say because I only found that via Google. According to the header at the top, it does take into account taxes. I tried to compare the last twelve months of data on that chart with data on regular gas available from AAA and found that the prices listed there were about what the surcharge is for premium.

Dave's full of crap either way, premium gas didn't touch $5 gallon on average at any point over the last decade. It may have climbed that high in certain locations, but that, of course, wasn't what he predicted.

That's cool, I didn't think so either.

 

[Doppel]

im not worried. china is closing in on cost of manufacturing. their hourly wages are going up, and ive been reading estimates that in about 5 years it simply will NOT be cheaper to produce things in china. manufacturing WILL come back stateside, and we will see an economic boom (recovery) because of it. its estimated that even if the average chinese worker is 4x cheaper, they can only produce 1/3 of what an average american worker can. its only a matter of a few more years before that gap closes, and we are gaming on fair playing fields. yes, im sure the chinese worker will get a little more productive, but not dramatically in the next few years- but their standard of living is skyrocketing, so there is plenty of hope for us.

Where in hot hell did you read this? The pure, unadulterated fact of it is that manufacturing in the US continues to use use technology to increase output while getting rid of workers and that will not change. There is no reason a high school grad budweiser-drinking American manning a machine is going to do any better than a guy from China. There is no analysis I've ever read--other than yours--that says manufacturing will do anything but continue to go away in the US for American workers. Total output can definitely rise and I think in fact has been but this is because of automation. If you create enough/capable enough robots you no longer need the worker.

When it costs 'too much' to make sh1t cheap in China, the businesses will just go to another sh1thole and exploit those countries.

Also this.

 

[IGBT]

there is NO recovery and your obama voodoo economics isn't working and will continue down the road of failure. What's a street agitator to do?? Maybe run for president again and win yet another popularity contest??

 

[Darwin333]

there is NO recovery and your obama voodoo economics isn't working and will continue down the road of failure. What's a street agitator to do?? Maybe run for president again and win yet another popularity contest??

In all due fairness, Obama is basically Bush Jr. except for a very few issues. Obama has basically just continued Bush's economic policies.

OTOH, I didn't see a whole lot of R or Tea Party names on the bill to reinstate Glass-Stegal which is probably the single biggest cause of the damage the financial mess caused.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

im not worried. china is closing in on cost of manufacturing. their hourly wages are going up, and ive been reading estimates that in about 5 years it simply will NOT be cheaper to produce things in china. manufacturing WILL come back stateside, and we will see an economic boom (recovery) because of it.

You forget about other locations such as SE Asia (like Vietnam) and when that gets too expensive, Africa. I've heard it is already happening to some extent; India and China are becoming too expensive and places like Vietnam and Thailand are picking up. If you want to get way ahead of the curve, invest in Africa and beat the SE Asian middle men.

 

[manimal]

You forget about other locations such as SE Asia (like Vietnam) and when that gets too expensive, Africa. I've heard it is already happening to some extent; India and China are becoming too expensive and places like Vietnam and Thailand are picking up. If you want to get way ahead of the curve, invest in Africa and beat the SE Asian middle men.

Vietnam is experiencing a boom right now in tech. They are the new Malaysia.


I

 

[theeedude]

The debt ceiling BS the GOP is pulling could well trigger a second Great Depression. Even if they raise it, a pullback on government spending now could undermine a very fragile recovery.

 

[BeauJangles]

You forget about other locations such as SE Asia (like Vietnam) and when that gets too expensive, Africa. I've heard it is already happening to some extent; India and China are becoming too expensive and places like Vietnam and Thailand are picking up. If you want to get way ahead of the curve, invest in Africa and beat the SE Asian middle men.

Well China's problem is that they've been manipulating their currency for years to help boost manufacturing. They are less and less able to do so as the pressures (and costs) grow greater.

As for "skipping" SE Asia for Africa, I think the biggest problems there are infrastructure and security. Companies who are about to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in to factories, roads, ports, and whatever else don't want to do so in a country that could suddenly have a revolution or a country with a belligerent neighbor.

 

[BeauJangles]

The debt ceiling BS the GOP is pulling could well trigger a second Great Depression. Even if they raise it, a pullback on government spending now could undermine a very fragile recovery.

The most important task for our country right now is to get spending under control and produce some semblance of a plan about how we're going to pay down our national debt. Even if we NEVER get there, cutting spending and establishing a course of action will go a long way to securing our country's financial security.

What most people fail to understand is that the budget issue is monumentally bigger than anything else. Gay rights, straight rights, minority rights, gun control, abortion, and just about every other issue you can think of must take a back seat to establishing a rational and sane budget.

 

[matt0611]

The debt ceiling BS the GOP is pulling could well trigger a second Great Depression. Even if they raise it, a pullback on government spending now could undermine a very fragile recovery.

There is no recovery, there never was, its all phony growth, its nothing but stimulus from artificial credit infusion / low interest rates and massive government deficit spending, the stimulus effect is now wearing off.

This economy is now built on a foundation of sand and will go into another recession soon (since we never truly ever left it).

 

[werepossum]

In all due fairness, Obama is basically Bush Jr. except for a very few issues. Obama has basically just continued Bush's economic policies.

OTOH, I didn't see a whole lot of R or Tea Party names on the bill to reinstate Glass-Stegal which is probably the single biggest cause of the damage the financial mess caused.

That's what I don't understand. I can believe that some honestly thought Glass-Steagall was obsolete because a Depression-like crash was no longer possible, but at this point everyone has just seen a Depression-like crash. Sure enough, just as in the Great Depression a crash in one sector of the economy took down other sectors. We very much need to have Glass-Steagall's separation reinstated.

 

[theeedude]

The most important task for our country right now is to get spending under control and produce some semblance of a plan about how we're going to pay down our national debt. Even if we NEVER get there, cutting spending and establishing a course of action will go a long way to securing our country's financial security.

What most people fail to understand is that the budget issue is monumentally bigger than anything else. Gay rights, straight rights, minority rights, gun control, abortion, and just about every other issue you can think of must take a back seat to establishing a rational and sane budget.

Really, the most important task for our country is getting spending under control? Not getting people back to work, but getting spending under control for the sake of getting it under control, never mind that it's that spending that is keeping us afloat.

 

[BeauJangles]

Really, the most important task for our country is getting spending under control? Not getting people back to work, but getting spending under control for the sake of getting it under control, never mind that it's that spending that is keeping us afloat.

Yeah, really.

Most people aren't willing to face up to the budgetary crisis we've created for ourselves and, while everyone wants spending to decrease, nobody wants cuts to medicare, social security, or defense -- three of the biggest line items in our budget. Something has to change, whether that is ending social security for people under a certain age, reforming medicare, or cutting military spending we cannot keep spending 1.6 trillion dollars a year of money we do not have.

And yes unemployment is the problem, but I don't see how continuing to throw good money after bad in a desperate attempt to artificially boost the economy after two previous efforts is going to do anyone any good.

 

[piasabird]

Illinois has one of the highest gas taxes in the nation. I paid yesterday around $3.76 for gas in Missouri. I dont really know why gas costs so much in Chicago other than it is a communist city. Do they have a City tax on the gasoline too? It might be the additives that the EPA says they have to add to the gasoline, that polutes the water! This is what happens when the Government tries to fix things.

 

[theeedude]

There is no recovery, there never was, its all phony growth, its nothing but stimulus from artificial credit infusion / low interest rates and massive government deficit spending, the stimulus effect is now wearing off.

This economy is now built on a foundation of sand and will go into another recession soon (since we never truly ever left it).

At least you admit that the growth we had was a result of stimulus, massive deficit spending, and credit infusion. You call it "phony" but it's very much real to the people who were able to get a paycheck, pay their bills, and support their families because of this stimulus. Also, economy is all about confidence. If a "phony" recovery gets people more confident to shop, to invest, to buy houses instead of waiting for further collapse, the results are very real economic growth. What's going to be phony are the "savings" you get from cutting deficit, it's simply going to cause a much bigger economic contraction that is going to require a much much bigger stimulus later on for the country to recover.

 

[BoberFett]

As for "skipping" SE Asia for Africa, I think the biggest problems there are infrastructure and security. Companies who are about to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in to factories, roads, ports, and whatever else don't want to do so in a country that could suddenly have a revolution or a country with a belligerent neighbor.

Agreed. That's why manufacturing never caught on in S Korea.

 

[BoberFett]

At least you admit that the growth we had was a result of stimulus, massive deficit spending, and credit infusion. You call it "phony" but it's very much real to the people who were able to get a paycheck, pay their bills, and support their families because of this stimulus. Also, economy is all about confidence. If a "phony" recovery gets people more confident to shop, to invest, to buy houses instead of waiting for further collapse, the results are very real economic growth. What's going to be phony are the "savings" you get from cutting deficit, it's simply going to cause a much bigger economic contraction that is going to require a much much bigger stimulus later on for the country to recover.

When you run up your credit card to buy a bunch of shit you didn't need, do you call that growth too?

Nothing grew you fool, we simply borrowed from the future.

 

[matt0611]

At least you admit that the growth we had was a result of stimulus, massive deficit spending, and credit infusion. You call it "phony" but it's very much real to the people who were able to get a paycheck, pay their bills, and support their families because of this stimulus. Also, economy is all about confidence. If a "phony" recovery gets people more confident to shop, to invest, to buy houses instead of waiting for further collapse, the results are very real economic growth. What's going to be phony are the "savings" you get from cutting deficit, it's simply going to cause a much bigger economic contraction that is going to require a much much bigger stimulus later on for the country to recover.

It is growth, but its temporary and will go away once the stimulus effect wears off, as is happening now.

The more allocation of resources done by the government, the worse off we are.

The government needs to go back to reasonable spending levels (close to what we are taking in) and stop draining capital and resources away from the private economy and we need to have a "true" recession and rebuild the economy, its going to hurt *A LOT* but it will pass and things will be better again. But its not politically popular to do it this way.

If we did what I suggested in 2008 we probably would be on our way to a true recovery by now, but nope, we spent, we printed, stimulated, to try to get ourselves out and this is where we are now.

You wouldn't need a stimulus if we had a true collapse and true recovery, economies heal by themselves on their own over time but the pain would probably be gone by now.

Now if we try to stimulate again it will have to be MUCH MUCH bigger than we did before to make any effect on our overstimulated economy. You can only do this so much before the whole thing collapses though.

Printing money and massive government deficit spending does not help in the long run and only a small amount in the short run.

I predict that next collapse that we are heading for will be FAR FAR greater than the collapse that would have happened in 08 if we let it play, and I doubt any stimulus will get us out of it.

I really do hope I'm wrong about all of this though.

 

[BeauJangles]

At least you admit that the growth we had was a result of stimulus, massive deficit spending, and credit infusion. You call it "phony" but it's very much real to the people who were able to get a paycheck, pay their bills, and support their families because of this stimulus. Also, economy is all about confidence. If a "phony" recovery gets people more confident to shop, to invest, to buy houses instead of waiting for further collapse, the results are very real economic growth. What's going to be phony are the "savings" you get from cutting deficit, it's simply going to cause a much bigger economic contraction that is going to require a much much bigger stimulus later on for the country to recover.

I was a pretty big supporter of the TARP plan and of some of the other measures taken by Congress to help stabilize the country. With that being said, these policies are meant as emergency measures or one-time expenditures designed to boost economic activity. Without getting into an argument about it, I think that the TARP plan was successful and helped avert a much deeper crisis.

That doesn't mean, however, that the government can or should continue to extend welfare to the rest of the country on the pretense of "fixing" the economy, especially when it comes at a time where the country already carries a precarious debt load.

And, by the way, what needs to be done ISN'T carving a trillion dollars out of next year's budget, it's about setting up a plan to reduce spending and bring the deficit under control. That doesn't mean ending welfare programs or unemployment programs and kicking people out on the street, it means implementing a plan that slows spending rather than accelerates it.