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sourceninja said:
Same reason I don't believe in Jesus.
Click to expand...

I love this reality that you numbnuts live in that somehow, in some mystical past, Bruce Lee never existed or never fought anyone if it wasn't choreographed. It's patently silly to hold on to such a delusion or to even put forth such an indefensible argument.

Fact is, Bruce Lee had to defend his life on several occasions. it seems to me that the concept of MMA as a "professional" circuit was born from the idea of "What would happen if Bruce Lee had to fight Mr __x__?"

I think the pros at the time were always pissed that his martial arts philosophy was so vastly different from theirs in that it essentially prevented him from being paid to fight--treating it as a career (it was a way of life for him, to treat it otherwise was impure) as it was for them, so he could never step into the ring. Yet when confronted outside the ring, on numerous occasions, he roundly demolished all comers. Do you think that kind of jealousy and frustration led to the early rule-less years of UFC? (all these rules in place today clearly detract from the "purity of fighting," no?)
 
slayer202 said:
in that video, how did he get that first guy to tap out? I didn't see anything lol. headbutts?
Click to expand...

It's been ages since I watched those, but I know Gracie used to use his gi for moves all of the time, so maybe he had some sort of choke in place by placing his arm through grabbing the gi on the other side.

KT

Edit: just watched him talking about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI2N2hivnAs&fmt=18 and he said the guy just panicked and quit, he didn't even understand it 😀
 
Watching those old UFC videos brought back a lot of memories. I can't believe how long they allowed those fighters to accept punishment for before finally stopping the fight. Compared to today's UFC, there's no doubt that it was very barbaric. No wonder there was such an uproar when UFC first hit the scene.

I also remember renting (I think it was) UFC 7, where one dude was getting whooped ground and pound style and as a last resort proceeded to punch the other dudes nuts like 15 times before he finally tapped.

I remember hearing something about it not being technically illegal then, but there was a rule or agreement that punches to the nuts was just a monetary fine.
 
zinfamous said:
I love this reality that you numbnuts live in that somehow, in some mystical past, Bruce Lee never existed or never fought anyone if it wasn't choreographed. It's patently silly to hold on to such a delusion or to even put forth such an indefensible argument.

Fact is, Bruce Lee had to defend his life on several occasions. it seems to me that the concept of MMA as a "professional" circuit was born from the idea of "What would happen if Bruce Lee had to fight Mr __x__?"

I think the pros at the time were always pissed that his martial arts philosophy was so vastly different from theirs in that it essentially prevented him from being paid to fight--treating it as a career (it was a way of life for him, to treat it otherwise was impure) as it was for them, so he could never step into the ring. Yet when confronted outside the ring, on numerous occasions, he roundly demolished all comers. Do you think that kind of jealousy and frustration led to the early rule-less years of UFC? (all these rules in place today clearly detract from the "purity of fighting," no?)
Click to expand...

Everything about Bruce fighting is myth and legend. There is no proof. When stating a claim the burden of proof is on the claimant. Any one could say they fought for their lives on the street. Without proof that is meaning less. MMA had been going on in Brazil before Bruce lee was even alive.

Rules in MMA were invented because most 'dirty' tricks were found to not be death blows or fight enders, but instead caused lasting effects for the fighters that hurt their careers and the sport. Other rules were invented because of people like bruce lee nut riders who honestly think because downward elbows can break ice they would kill you in a fight. Regardless, eye gouging, finger breaking, nut grabbing, etc did nothing much to effect the outcome of a fight more then good old workable boxing, wrestling, etc. The rules simply allow you to have a career and grow without being constantly plagued with broken fingers or blinded for life. Even in the first days of Value Tudo, there have been no real examples of dirty fighting having any effect on the outcome of a fight and many examples where it was completely useless. Anyone who follows the sport like I have would realize this.

Besides, bruce lee did compete in point sparing and even some amateur boxing. Obviously his 'martial arts ethics' didn't matter to him. Even then we see the difference between the legend of Bruce and reality. The legend says he knocked out all 3 opponents to win the boxing competition. All eye witnesses said he went the distance to win by decision. This means he didn't have the technique and knock out power to devastate boxers of his own weight and size. Yet people will constantly say he could dominate top MMA heavy weights today.

The only person I trust who has said anything about Bruce was Gene Lebell (one of the greatest fighters and stunt men of Bruce's day). He doesn't make any of the extraordinary claims everyone else makes. He simply says he kicked hard and he was glad Bruce wasn't as big as he was or it would have really hurt. Here's a little story from Gene

"When I got to the set Benny pointed Bruce out and told me to go put him in a headlock or something. Well, I'm a good employee and I always listen to the boss, so I went over to grab Bruce and he starts making all those crazy noises he became famous for. As a joke, I picked him up and put him on my shoulder in a fireman's carry kind of thing, then I ran down the length of the set and back again. Bruce says "put me down or I'll kill you". So I run down the set again and he says, "put me down" and I say "I can't put you down or you'll kill me". After that I sat down and talked to my boss and the other crew members for a couple minutes with him up on my shoulder. He finally crawled off, we all had a good laugh, and we went and shot our scenes."

It is not debated that Bruce was a gifted performer or was athletic. I think that with proper training he could have been a professional fighter. I do not however think that without years of training in a selected sport (such as boxing or mma) he would have walked though any of those guys. I think he could have been competitive (as could any athletic, young, and smart person who dedicates themselves to a sport).
 
zinfamous said:
I love this reality that you numbnuts live in that somehow, in some mystical past, Bruce Lee never existed or never fought anyone if it wasn't choreographed. It's patently silly to hold on to such a delusion or to even put forth such an indefensible argument.

Fact is, Bruce Lee had to defend his life on several occasions. it seems to me that the concept of MMA as a "professional" circuit was born from the idea of "What would happen if Bruce Lee had to fight Mr __x__?"

I think the pros at the time were always pissed that his martial arts philosophy was so vastly different from theirs in that it essentially prevented him from being paid to fight--treating it as a career (it was a way of life for him, to treat it otherwise was impure) as it was for them, so he could never step into the ring. Yet when confronted outside the ring, on numerous occasions, he roundly demolished all comers. Do you think that kind of jealousy and frustration led to the early rule-less years of UFC? (all these rules in place today clearly detract from the "purity of fighting," no?)
Click to expand...

I believe in santa clause too.
 
DayLaPaul said:
Watching those old UFC videos brought back a lot of memories. I can't believe how long they allowed those fighters to accept punishment for before finally stopping the fight. Compared to today's UFC, there's no doubt that it was very barbaric. No wonder there was such an uproar when UFC first hit the scene.

I also remember renting (I think it was) UFC 7, where one dude was getting whooped ground and pound style and as a last resort proceeded to punch the other dudes nuts like 15 times before he finally tapped.

I remember hearing something about it not being technically illegal then, but there was a rule or agreement that punches to the nuts was just a monetary fine.
Click to expand...

One of the good things about the early UFC tournaments was how it was a ladder tournament, so fighters had multiple fights in the same night. Really had to be tough to get through there.

Unfortunately that was also one of the bad thing because guys would get hurt along the way and alternates would have to come in and fight. IIRC one of the finals was between a couple of alternates since both guys originally scheduled were hurt. Maybe it was only one of the guys, I can't remember. :hmm:

KT
 
KeithTalent said:
It's been ages since I watched those, but I know Gracie used to use his gi for moves all of the time, so maybe he had some sort of choke in place by placing his arm through grabbing the gi on the other side.

KT

Edit: just watched him talking about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI2N2hivnAs&fmt=18 and he said the guy just panicked and quit, he didn't even understand it 😀
Click to expand...

lol thats awesome

KeithTalent said:
One of the good things about the early UFC tournaments was how it was a ladder tournament, so fighters had multiple fights in the same night. Really had to be tough to get through there.

Unfortunately that was also one of the bad thing because guys would get hurt along the way and alternates would have to come in and fight. IIRC one of the finals was between a couple of alternates since both guys originally scheduled were hurt. Maybe it was only one of the guys, I can't remember. :hmm:

KT
Click to expand...

and so is that lol. real life Kumite almost
 
KeithTalent said:
One of the good things about the early UFC tournaments was how it was a ladder tournament, so fighters had multiple fights in the same night. Really had to be tough to get through there.

Unfortunately that was also one of the bad thing because guys would get hurt along the way and alternates would have to come in and fight. IIRC one of the finals was between a couple of alternates since both guys originally scheduled were hurt. Maybe it was only one of the guys, I can't remember. :hmm:

KT
Click to expand...

UFC 6 I think. Tank Abbot fought some Russian guy in the finals. The Russian guy lost in the semis. He ended up winning because he was able to avoid Tank's strikes and "lay and pray" as some would say. Eventually he wore Tank down and managed a submission.

As for Fedor...he didn't seem very impressive in his last fight before this one. The guy he fought lasted a while and received several good strikes...fight ending strikes had they been delivered by Carwin or Lesnar...probably Gonzaga too.
 
sourceninja said:
Everything about Bruce fighting is myth and legend. There is no proof. When stating a claim the burden of proof is on the claimant. Any one could say they fought for their lives on the street. Without proof that is meaning less. MMA had been going on in Brazil before Bruce lee was even alive.

Rules in MMA were invented because most 'dirty' tricks were found to not be death blows or fight enders, but instead caused lasting effects for the fighters that hurt their careers and the sport. Other rules were invented because of people like bruce lee nut riders who honestly think because downward elbows can break ice they would kill you in a fight. Regardless, eye gouging, finger breaking, nut grabbing, etc did nothing much to effect the outcome of a fight more then good old workable boxing, wrestling, etc. The rules simply allow you to have a career and grow without being constantly plagued with broken fingers or blinded for life. Even in the first days of Value Tudo, there have been no real examples of dirty fighting having any effect on the outcome of a fight and many examples where it was completely useless. Anyone who follows the sport like I have would realize this.

Besides, bruce lee did compete in point sparing and even some amateur boxing. Obviously his 'martial arts ethics' didn't matter to him. Even then we see the difference between the legend of Bruce and reality. The legend says he knocked out all 3 opponents to win the boxing competition. All eye witnesses said he went the distance to win by decision. This means he didn't have the technique and knock out power to devastate boxers of his own weight and size. Yet people will constantly say he could dominate top MMA heavy weights today.

The only person I trust who has said anything about Bruce was Gene Lebell (one of the greatest fighters and stunt men of Bruce's day). He doesn't make any of the extraordinary claims everyone else makes. He simply says he kicked hard and he was glad Bruce wasn't as big as he was or it would have really hurt. Here's a little story from Gene

"When I got to the set Benny pointed Bruce out and told me to go put him in a headlock or something. Well, I'm a good employee and I always listen to the boss, so I went over to grab Bruce and he starts making all those crazy noises he became famous for. As a joke, I picked him up and put him on my shoulder in a fireman's carry kind of thing, then I ran down the length of the set and back again. Bruce says "put me down or I'll kill you". So I run down the set again and he says, "put me down" and I say "I can't put you down or you'll kill me". After that I sat down and talked to my boss and the other crew members for a couple minutes with him up on my shoulder. He finally crawled off, we all had a good laugh, and we went and shot our scenes."

It is not debated that Bruce was a gifted performer or was athletic. I think that with proper training he could have been a professional fighter. I do not however think that without years of training in a selected sport (such as boxing or mma) he would have walked though any of those guys. I think he could have been competitive (as could any athletic, young, and smart person who dedicates themselves to a sport).
Click to expand...

Haha finally someone who knows what they're talking about.
 
broon said:
As for Fedor...he didn't seem very impressive in his last fight before this one. The guy he fought lasted a while and received several good strikes...fight ending strikes had they been delivered by Carwin or Lesnar...probably Gonzaga too.
Click to expand...

Any hw has a puncher's chance if given a solid clean shot so that argument is pretty much nil.

BTW:

Gonzaga would crumble if his chin is touched.
Lesnar has never KO'd anyone, his chin is untested, his cardio untested.
Carwin's chin/cardio is untested.

Let's see how the Lesnar/Carwin fight goes down first.
 
slayer202 said:
lol thats awesome



and so is that lol. real life Kumite almost
Click to expand...

It really was as close to Kumite as anything I have ever seen. Good times!

broon said:
UFC 6 I think. Tank Abbot fought some Russian guy in the finals. The Russian guy lost in the semis. He ended up winning because he was able to avoid Tank's strikes and "lay and pray" as some would say. Eventually he wore Tank down and managed a submission.
Click to expand...

Hmm, yeah, I vaguely remember that. The big fight there was Shamrock vs. Severn which was a fun one.

KT
 
My favorite UFC fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwKPMEiiobk

Fred Ettish, 5th degree black belt in laying down in the fetal position. To his credit, a few years later he did train properly and go on to win a MMA bout. It was a great example of how people collapse when they have never been punched in the face and it happens for the first time.

Remember Fred there claimed to have won over 501 straight victories in street fights with his karate system.
 
Last edited:
sourceninja said:
My favorite UFC fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwKPMEiiobk

Fred Ettish, 5th degree black belt in laying down in the fetal position. To his credit, a few years later he did train properly and go on to win a MMA bout. It was a great example of how people collapse when they have never been punched in the face and it happens for the first time.

Remember Fred there claimed to have won over 501 straight victories in street fights with his karate system.
Click to expand...

ahhhh fred ettish, a piece of mma history. the precursor to kimbo slice, street fighter bad boy goes legit. haha.
 
erikistired said:
ahhhh fred ettish, a piece of mma history. the precursor to kimbo slice, street fighter bad boy goes legit. haha.
Click to expand...

Lol, yeah, I remember that fight and how embarrassed I felt for the guy. I wonder if McBride's character Fred Simmons in the Foot Fist Way was inspired by this guy at all. :hmm:

KT
 
Man this thread went to sh@t. The greatest mma fighter in history gets his first loss and it's become a thread about the early days of ufc and Bruce Lee vs Fedor Emalienko. Lol.
 
I bet if Bruce Lee were riding a magical dinosaur with shoulder-mounted plasma cannons he might have a shot against Fedor and a bunch of Rasputin-zombie monsters, because as everyone knows Rasputin had great tdd.
 
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