• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Watch the world's greatest fighter this Saturday ( 26th ) for FREE!

Page 9 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
OILFIELDTRASH said:
Man this thread went to sh@t. The greatest mma fighter in history gets his first loss and it's become a thread about the early days of ufc and Bruce Lee vs Fedor Emalienko. Lol.
Click to expand...

They were talking about the mystical and magical movie star Bruce Lee fighting real, live, actual fighters at the beginning of this thread too. Seriously.


Anybody that thinks that Bruce Lee from the movies could last 5 seconds with an actual professional fighter is a god damned idiot. You see karate guys getting murdered in early MMA events all the time....there's really nothing special about it. Machida is a little different, because while his base is karate, there's a lot more to his game than just karate.

What if Bruce Lee fought Godzilla....what would happen then?
 
Been a Fedor fan for quite a while. He made a couple of bad moves due to him being far to aggressive and overconfident. He wasn't overconfident in the sense that he was full of himself, he just thought he could power through the guard like he did on NOG. However, even when he fought NOG he was more cautious than he was in this fight.

I think anyone who watches MMA would believe that if Fedor had a shot at a rematch, it would go quite differently. It might take Fedor longer to dispatch him than it did the other way around, but he would do it, soundly. He had no reason to jump into the guard and could have just waited for him to get back up and knocked him down again. Rinse repeat, because we know Werdum doesn't have a stand-up game. Fedor could then have won by a decision at the very least, and at most would have eventually knocked him out.

Also, it is interesting that Werdum reports that he does not remember being hit and he does not know how he went to the ground. That, quite frankly, is close to a TKO or even a KO if it was a bit harder.

To those who think Fedor is overrate - Yes, he just might be. Unless he fights every fighter that has ever entered into the cage, it would be near impossible to prove otherwise. But the same would go for every other fighter out there. The fact remains that he did fight the best in the past, and that cannot be taken away. Is he #1 currently? No idea, I can honestly say that Brock, Carwin, Cain, etc... could all give him a run for his money.

Still a Fedor fan... He is still the best 'all around' fighter in the game, IMO. And Brock fans should cut him some slack, Brock basically did the same thing with Frank Mir the first round... Look what happened on the second round? He won, but he was far more reserved and methodical over it. The other difference is Fedor knew better, but was probably suffering from complacency. At least Brock can blame his on his lack of experience... Fedor has no choice but to accept that he acted stupidly that night.
 
Last edited:
Woosta said:
Any hw has a puncher's chance if given a solid clean shot so that argument is pretty much nil.

BTW:

Gonzaga would crumble if his chin is touched.
Lesnar has never KO'd anyone, his chin is untested, his cardio untested.
Carwin's chin/cardio is untested.

Let's see how the Lesnar/Carwin fight goes down first.
Click to expand...

Maybe I wasn't clear. The shots Fedor delivered would have been KOs if the same shot had been delivered by Carwin, Lesnar, and possibly Gonzaga.
 
railer said:
They were talking about the mystical and magical movie star Bruce Lee fighting real, live, actual fighters at the beginning of this thread too. Seriously.


Anybody that thinks that Bruce Lee from the movies could last 5 seconds with an actual professional fighter is a god damned idiot. You see karate guys getting murdered in early MMA events all the time....there's really nothing special about it. Machida is a little different, because while his base is karate, there's a lot more to his game than just karate.

What if Bruce Lee fought Godzilla....what would happen then?
Click to expand...

And you could just as easily argue that Bruce Lee would have adapted and had the overall skills of Machida. But. you. cannot. teach. speed.
 
railer said:
They were talking about the mystical and magical movie star Bruce Lee fighting real, live, actual fighters at the beginning of this thread too. Seriously.


Anybody that thinks that Bruce Lee from the movies could last 5 seconds with an actual professional fighter is a god damned idiot. You see karate guys getting murdered in early MMA events all the time....there's really nothing special about it. Machida is a little different, because while his base is karate, there's a lot more to his game than just karate.

What if Bruce Lee fought Godzilla....what would happen then?
Click to expand...

Bruce Lee was never a Karate master, numbnuts.

It's the fact that he wasn't a specialist that makes him a contender.

Fuck man, he was Chinese. Just think about it for a second.
 
just in case anyone forgets how TOTALLY WRONG some people can be when predicting MMA fights.....I'll bump this up.

😀


You are welcome.
 
railer said:
just in case anyone forgets how TOTALLY WRONG some people can be when predicting MMA fights.....I'll bump this up.

😀


You are welcome.
Click to expand...

Fedor is still the greatest fighter in the world. And I was right on Cain dethroning Brock.

Fedor wins 98/100 times vs Werdum.
 
Woosta said:
Fedor is still the greatest fighter in the world. And I was right on Cain dethroning Brock.

Fedor wins 98/100 times vs Werdum.
Click to expand...
In case it hasn't been stated, the reason Fedor's legacy will be or up for debate is because he (or his HORRIBLE management team) allows it.

If he would just drop the co-op BS from signing nonsense he could goto the UFC and get the 3-5 dream fights. If he won, there'd be ZERO debate about his record and his opponents.

But instead he lets his management call the shots, fights once a year against good, but not the best opposition.

He could very well be the Jerry Rice of MMA, but never will be if he stays will Strikeforce.

Don't even present your who's ducking who, UFC HW div. is deeper and better then Strikeforce. Fedor isn't ducking in the sense of the word, just putting all the faith in his management to do the right thing... which they aren't.
 
RPD said:
In case it hasn't been stated, the reason Fedor's legacy will be or up for debate is because he (or his HORRIBLE management team) allows it.

If he would just drop the co-op BS from signing nonsense he could goto the UFC and get the 3-5 dream fights. If he won, there'd be ZERO debate about his record and his opponents.

But instead he lets his management call the shots, fights once a year against good, but not the best opposition.

He could very well be the Jerry Rice of MMA, but never will be if he stays will Strikeforce.

Don't even present your who's ducking who, UFC HW div. is deeper and better then Strikeforce. Fedor isn't ducking in the sense of the word, just putting all the faith in his management to do the right thing... which they aren't.
Click to expand...


BROCK:

Carwin TOP 10
Frank Mir TOP 10
Couture TOP 10
Herring
Min Soo Kim

CARWIN

Brock Lesnar TOP 10
Frank Mir TOP 10
Gabriel Gonzaga
Neil Wain
Christian Wellisch
Sherman Pendergarst
Rex Richards
Rick Slaton
Chris Guillen
Justice Smith
Jay McCown
Casey Jackson
Carlton Jones

CAIN VELASQUEZ

Big Nog TOP 10
Rothwell
Kongo
Denis Stojic
Jake O'Brien
Brad Morris
Jeremiah Constant
Jesse Fujarcyzk

FRANK MIR

Cro Cop
Shane Carwin
Cheick Kongo
Brock Lesnar
Big Nog
Brock Lesnar
Antonio Hardonk
Brandon Vera
Dan Christion
Marcio Cruz
Tim Sylvia
Wes Sims
Wes Sims
Tank Abbott
Ian Freeman
Pete Williams
Roberto Traven
Dan Quinn
Jerome Smith

Junior Dos Santos

Roy Nelson
Gonzaga
Yvel
Cro Cop
Struve
Werdum TOP 10
Geronimo
Joaquim
Jair Goncalves
Joaquim
Edson
Eduardo
Jailson

That's 10 so far. Let me just use 1 fighter from SF.

Fedor - Rogers, Arlovski, Sylvia, Mark Hunt, Coleman, Cro Cop, Big Nog, Heath Herring

That's 8. So, 5 of the most elite HW fighters combined from the UFC have fought 10 top 10 competitors, while Fedor himself has fought 8.

I wonder who has fought the most competition...

Now, stat-wise let's compare win/loss records:

Fedor: 32-2
Barnett: 26-5
Overeem: 33-11
Bigfoot: 14-2
Rogers: 10-2
Kharitonov: 16-4
Werdum: 14-4

COMBINED: 145-30

UFC ( new guard ):

Lesnar: 5-1
Cain: 8-0
JDS: 12-1
Carwin: 12-1
Frank Mir: 14-5
Gabriel Gonzaga: 11-5
Roy Nelson: 15-5

COMBINED: 77-18

If we compared the top 4 vs the top 2

Lesnar, Cain, JDS, Carwin are 37-3
Fedor and Josh Barnett have more wins than Lesnar/Cain/JDS/Carwin have fights. Fedor and Barnett are 58-7 alone.

If we had matchups:

Overeem vs Lesnar
Fedor vs Cain
JDS vs Kharitonov
Carwin vs Bigfoot
Werdum vs Gonzaga
Frank Mir vs Brett Rogers
Arlovski vs Roy Nelson

Overeem has better striking and submissions than Lesnar. Overeem is strong enough to hold his own against Lesnar's wrestling. Lesnar's takedowns have been stopped by Herring ( smaller by 40 lbs diff ) and Couture ( 40 lbs size diff ). Overeem is not some 220 lb scrawny HW like Herring or Couture. I say the odds are heavily on Overeem.

Fedor and Cain have arguably the best cardio at HW. Both are very good strikers. Fedor has the experience against top competition, Cain doesn't. I say Fedor takes this.

Junior Dos Santos vs Kharitonov is a very very good matchup. Both are very good boxers. Kharitonov is testing his striking skills in K-1 now. I'd say they are equal striking-wise. I think it's 50/50.

Carwin vs Bigfoot is a good matchup. Carwin has devastating striking but he gasses after 1 round. Bigfoot is no joke, only 2 losses out of 16 fights. Carwin has the power advantage but Bigfoot outstruck the boxer in Arlovski. Bigfoot has the cardio advantage and the submission/grappling advantage.

Werdum vs Gonzaga happened twice already, Werdum won both fights. Werdum has the better jiu jitsu.

Frank Mir vs Brett Rogers... Frank Mir definitely has the advantage in experience and submission grappling. Mir probably takes this, but never count a guy with Rogers power out. Frank Mir has lost to a light heavyweight in Brendan Vera before.

Arlovski vs Roy nelson has happened before and Arlovski did win, but they are both at very different stages of their careers. Roy Nelson is arguably higher ranked and would probably be the favorite. I think he did damn good against JDS. If Arlovski is really, really motivated and mentally there he takes this though.

Bottom line: The strikeforce HW division is no joke. They have the better experience and records. The UFC HW division top ranked are still green, and we won't really see how good they are until they fight each other a couple of times. Guys like Brock are 1 dimensional in wrestling, Carwin is 1 dimensional as a 1st round striker. If they really are the top 5 elite, they need to be well rounded in all areas.

Fedor is arguably the most well rounded HW ever. Alistair does have better striking than Fedor because of his newly gained K-1 experience and Alistair has ALSO won the ADCC grappling championships. We all know Alistair has had several losses before but that was as a LHW when he was cutting weight and not doing any strength training. He was also very, very young ( early 20s ).

For kicks, let's compare ages:

Brock - 33 ( lots of wear and tear from WWE stint )
Carwin - 35 ( i dont see him fighting for more than another 2-3 years )
JDS - 26
Cain - 28
Mir - 31 ( lots of wear and tear; motorcycle accident )

JDS and Cain are young. They'll be around for 4-5 years. Alistair Overeem is only 30 though, and is more well rounded than both, more experience.

Alistair I think defines the new breed because of his well rounded-ness, strength, speed. Experience helps.
 
You have that in a notepad ready to cut/paste in Fedor's defense at any given time? I'm mean really. I'd waste a hope bunch of time getting the stats myself, but you leave out how many different people have beaten Alistair in the past, regardless of his new found muscles.

I'm not going to convince you, the fact you still think AA is relevant is like me trying to say Tito adds depth to the 205 div in UFC.

Strikeforce does have experience, that is no question. However, the only possible fighters there for him to beat that are relevant are Alistair. Everyone else is far past their prime or simply isn't up to snuff.

Finally just because you can pick some match ups in a way to favor SF then state Cain/JSD who are 28/26 will be around for 4-5 years then say Overeem is "only" 30 is cute.
 
RPD said:
You have that in a notepad ready to cut/paste in Fedor's defense at any given time? I'm mean really. I'd waste a hope bunch of time getting the stats myself, but you leave out how many different people have beaten Alistair in the past, regardless of his new found muscles.
Click to expand...

I agree. Alistair does need to fight top 10 guys but you cannot deny his new skills.

He was an early 20 year old fighting elite fighters in an early stage of his career. He is a completely different beast now.
 
Ah, fuck. And here I thought Zombie Bruce Lee really did return to wipe the floor with all these pansies.


seriously though, the chances of that happening are about equal with the predictability of this bullshit.

/exit, stage left

:sneaky:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top