Watch: Neil Cavuto Calmly Destroys Liberal Student Demanding 'Free' College For All

[realibrad]

Just the elites get the free ride, gotcha.

Well, currently, a lot of taxes that go to pay for college go to those in the middle and upper class. So really, the system we have now that people want to expand, tax the poor to pay for those above them to go to school. So...

 

[waggy]

Also along with increasing the amount of PUBLIC colleges and locking down the cost. I would love to see more Trade schools pushed.

Not everyone is fit for college. I feel one of the large problems with the US is that we push college far to much. NOT everyone is fit to work in a office. I know a few who are far happier working in the field farming, or working in construction etc.

I would like to see training for such jobs come back.

 

[Sonikku]

What the hell does she think this is, GERMANY?!

 

[Genx87]

Also along with increasing the amount of PUBLIC colleges and locking down the cost. I would love to see more Trade schools pushed.

Not everyone is fit for college. I feel one of the large problems with the US is that we push college far to much. NOT everyone is fit to work in a office. I know a few who are far happier working in the field farming, or working in construction etc.

I would like to see training for such jobs come back.

Trade schools is a big deal. Lots of opportunity in the next few decades for tradesman as the older generation dies off.

 

[senseamp]

One of the biggest reasons that other countries spend less is due to the fact they do far less. The US system gives the incentive to do every test for anything. If you were to do all the things typically done in the US in their system, then you would spend just as much if not more. Why not pay $10 extra for a specialist who will do more tests. The specialist has far more student debt and charges the insurance company more as his cost is higher as he had to do more schooling. Couple that with the extra tests, and there is far more than $10 extra there, so we all pay in higher premiums.

Now, lets get to the numbers that you posted. If you could somehow capture all the savings benefits of other countries, and then take 100% of those savings and put it toward college costs, then you could in theory cover those in college now. That is not possible at all, as you cannot just force a change that big in a reasonable time. The cost difference is not because they have price controls, the difference is in what is done in the system. Not the care, but all the extra things we do in the US system that gives no benefit. Well, unless you look at end of life care. In the other systems they simply let the people die as painless as possible, but thats a whole different issue.

So, even if you could get the US onto one of those systems, it would be years and years, so maybe a long term goal, but nothing that would happen in say the next 10 years.

Now, the average cost of a year being $10k. Of the 1.3 trillion debt, that did not only go to tuition. The average instate college tuition for a public college was about 10k.

So, to get to your figure, its actually not the real average. Its just the average cost for an instate student at a public school and does not cover any other school costs. Remember to add about $1,200 for books and supplies.

So, I would assume that the programs you listed are also not growing in terms of expense at the same level as college tuition either. So, tracking the trends you would need to find more an more money to pay for this.

Also, I would assume you would not cover the typical cost at a private school, so we would need to build a lot more public colleges. So, its not just tuition costs, its also fees and new school costs, and teachers costs.

It quickly starts to add up to a lot more than 1.3 trillion. I don't see where you get that money from either.

I look at the results. Other countries spend 10% of GDP and get as good results (or better) that we get for 18% of GDP. Whatever it is that costs extra 8% in the US has to be traded off against the opportunity cost, such as using that money (actually only a part of it) to provide free college education.
$10K is average in-state tuition at public university, according to College Board. But OK, let's say it's $20K, that 8% of GDP could then "only" pay tuition for 65 Million Americans every year. Current college enrollment is 25 Million people.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Just the elites get the free ride, gotcha.

Either you're missing the point, or you think Germany is elitist and a poor example of free college education.

 

[realibrad]

What the hell does she think this is, GERMANY?!

Just a few points, as I am sure you think you made a great point here.

Many many people in Germany do not go to college. Many go into a trade school instead of college.

Further, not everyone is allowed to go to college, so its not free for anyone. First, you have to meet qualifications. If you were to get a HS diploma in the US, you would not qualify for free college in Germany. You must get certain certifications before you are allowed to go to college in Germany.

So, if the US wanted to exclude about 50% of the population, then we might be able to do what Germany does. That would also require we change our colleges to be much cheaper like theirs, but that is a much longer issue.

So, if you point was that Germany already does then, well then that was stupid. If that was not your point, then please explain.

 

[realibrad]

I look at the results. Other countries spend 10% of GDP and get as good results (or better) that we get for 18% of GDP. Whatever it is that costs extra 8% in the US has to be traded off against the opportunity cost, such as using that money (actually only a part of it) to provide free college education.
$10K is average in-state tuition at public university, according to College Board. But OK, let's say it's $20K, that 8% of GDP could then "only" pay tuition for 65 Million Americans every year. Current college enrollment is 25 Million people.

You cannot extract the savings easily. Even if you could capture that whole 8%, it would take years to adjust the US system. So, are you saying that over the next 10-15 years your plan would pay for college?

 

[senseamp]

Yeah, we can afford $1.3T of health care overspending for no better results than the rest of the developed world. But we can't afford free 4 years of college for every American. See a pattern? If it's going to corporate profits in excess of added value and monopoly rents, then somehow we can afford it, no problem. But if it's actually helping Americans, oh noes, there is no money. Just cut the BS.

 

[senseamp]

You cannot extract the savings easily. Even if you could capture that whole 8%, it would take years to adjust the US system. So, are you saying that over the next 10-15 years your plan would pay for college?

OK, so now we are moving from a fundamentals argument to an inertia based one. It's progress. :thumbsup:

 

[realibrad]

Yeah, we can afford $1.3T of health care overspending for no better results than the rest of the developed world. But we can't afford free 4 years of college for every American. See a pattern? If it's going to corporate profits in excess of added value and monopoly rents, then somehow we can afford it, no problem. But if it's actually helping Americans, oh noes, there is no money. Just cut the BS.

If you are arguing about not giving the corporations more money, then I 100% support that. They have been using the taxpayers to make them richer for a long time.

But, the main reason the US healthcare system costs so much more is because of what we expect from our system. If you just did single payer and did nothing else, there would be little to no cost reduction. If you were to try and do price controls, it would also not do much good, as price controls have been tried so many times and not worked. US society would simply demand just as much and expect to pay less.

We cannot have a system like Canada because they wont pay for many things we expect today.

If your argument is that we should be spending money on education vs the healthcare, the sure. But, reality does not work like that. You will never be able to take money spent there and move it over to education. Its just a fluff thing to say.

 

[senseamp]

If you are arguing about not giving the corporations more money, then I 100% support that. They have been using the taxpayers to make them richer for a long time.

But, the main reason the US healthcare system costs so much more is because of what we expect from our system. If you just did single payer and did nothing else, there would be little to no cost reduction. If you were to try and do price controls, it would also not do much good, as price controls have been tried so many times and not worked. US society would simply demand just as much and expect to pay less.

We cannot have a system like Canada because they wont pay for many things we expect today.

If your argument is that we should be spending money on education vs the healthcare, the sure. But, reality does not work like that. You will never be able to take money spent there and move it over to education. Its just a fluff thing to say.

OK, we cannot do anything, we just have to hand over 8% of GDP, aka $1.3T, for no added value. Nothing to do. Our health care just costs twice as much as other countries with better health results because we are special. Oh yeah, and we can't afford to educate people. No money. Got it.
I am out for now, talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Atreus21]

Are you proposing we spend 0 dollars on the military?

Well yeah dude. It's so simple!

 

[Atreus21]

College tuition is expensive enough without the government stepping in to make it "free".

As long as we're running a half trillion dollar deficit a year (or otherwise known as borrowing from China), we have no business raising taxes for any purpose.

 

[realibrad]

OK, we cannot do anything, we just have to hand over 8% of GDP, aka $1.3T, for no added value. Nothing to do. Our health care just costs twice as much as other countries with better health results because we are special. Oh yeah, and we can't afford to educate people. No money. Got it.
I am out for now, talk amongst yourselves.

Im sure you are now down, and that your response means something. I am for removing the current system of healthcare, but you want to twist it to me want to leave it.

You are doing the same thing as anyone on the right. Fluff claim and deflect.

 

[Atreus21]

Im sure you are now down, and that your response means something. I am for removing the current system of healthcare, but you want to twist it to me want to leave it.

You are doing the same thing as anyone on the right. Fluff claim and deflect.

...

Say again?

 

[ivwshane]

Solid plan. I can really see the robust details there.

Higher taxes on capital gains. Higher taxes on high earners with new tax brackets for the ultra wealthy. Reduction in military spending and a universal health care system paid by everyone including businesses.

 

[waggy]

Trade schools is a big deal. Lots of opportunity in the next few decades for tradesman as the older generation dies off.

yep.I feel we as a society are letting these slip away. they are needed. Also there is no shame in working with your hands.

it's a shame that the US looks down on such jobs.

 

[realibrad]

Higher taxes on capital gains. Higher taxes on high earners with new tax brackets for the ultra wealthy. Reduction in military spending and a universal health care system paid by everyone including businesses.

Add up all the savings and what do you get in total?

 

[senseamp]

Add up all the savings and what do you get in total?

It's been explained to you over and over, but you keep asking.
Developed countries with universal single payer spend 10% of their GDP on health care. We spend 18%, so you get at least $1 Trillion.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Fox is stupid. Liberals keep playing up Fox like it represents conservatives accurately! Stop overblowing and sensationalizing how conservatives respects, listen and praise Fox!!

Young liberal student acts like a total ass on national air.

OH GOD!!! FOX IS AWESHUM!!! TEH TOTES BBQ-WTF-PWNED THIS BITCH!!!shift+1!!! WE LOVE YOU RUPERT!!!!!

No, really guys, keep telling us how you don't idolize Fox.

 

[realibrad]

It's been explained to you over and over, but you keep asking.
Developed countries with universal single payer spend 10% of their GDP on health care. We spend 18%, so you get at least $1 Trillion.

I thought you were out? Did you just say you were to seem smug? You sounded really smug.

What you are trying to say is that you can just switch over to single payer and you will save 8% in the next 10 or so years. That will not work out that way. I pointed out why our system costs more, and its not because its partly private.

Here is a paper on this very issue. Look at the tables from page 29 and beyond.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w13429.pdf

What you will see is that per capita, those in the US get far more treatment. I am not saying this is better treatment, but they get more treatment. That raises the cost.

Canada has 8.8% that have high blood pressure and 84.1% get treatment. US has 13.1% high blood pressure, and 88.3% get treatment.

If you look at women and things like mammograms, 88.6% of US women have had one, while 72.3% of Canadian women have had one.

Men's prostate test. 16.4% of men have had one, and 54.2% of US men have had one.

So, single payer will not fix this if there is not a shift in what people expect. A huge part of why the US healthcare system costs so much is that we expect far more to be done. End of life care is fucking crazy in this country. A huge chunk of why our system costs so much is EOL care.

I am not saying single payer is not the right path either. What I am saying is that if it is going to save us money, we need to be more realistic about the care we expect.

 

[alcoholbob]

I don't think she is an idiot. I think she is idealistic and ignorant, but I think she is a smart girl. I think the purpose of the movement is good, but they need to be more realistic. This is a double sided issue. The costs need to come down for the students, but most of the problems are from the rising cost of education, not getting someone to pay your way. My mom left college with a masters degree with $10k in debt. Today that would likely be over $100k. That is 5x over inflation!

Countries in Asia for example currently provide 100% free college are practicing something that approaches a pure meritocracy. You have to score very high in order to get into college, because college is an investment made by the government that they want to pay off later on taxes collected--they want highly qualified engineers, scientists, programmers, and tradespeople to get educated.

We already have nearly 70% of 18/19 year olds enrolled in college, so you already know its a giant bubble. 70% of kids in the country are not smart enough to graduate college, much less actually get a real STEM degree. The average IQ of a college graduate is 115. The mean IQ is around 98-99 in this country. Many of these kids should be just told the truth that they don't have a hope in hell of graduating and they are being sold into debt slavery, and would be better off pursuing a trade or just working full-time. In the U.S. college is just a giant bubble blown up by the federal government to keep kids busy so they don't notice that an economy that once had over 40% of its jobs in high paying manufacturing are now at 4% and dwindling, and there's nothing for the kids to look forward to except as Walmart greeters or bar tenders so they keep them out of the workforce to get mickey mouse degrees.

 

[LegendKiller]

What the hell does she think this is, GERMANY?!

Yeah, the nerve of some git like that - She wouldn't even be able to get to the Gymnasium let alone pass the Abitur.


Ohh, wait, did you actually think Germany gives out a free education for every shitstain that can fill out an application and study a bullshit degree?

Silly rabbit, free Universitat is for smart people.

 

[zinfamous]

Are you for free college?

How would you pay for it?

end corporate welfare
less defense spending
more education.

win win win.