Watch: Neil Cavuto Calmly Destroys Liberal Student Demanding 'Free' College For All

[HamburgerBoy]

Hopefully it will increase. Education is a good thing, remember?

How do you educate sub-par students that take away nothing from their degree, assuming they graduate at all?

 

[realibrad]

Because he is a hack.

No, I think he is so used to those on the right attacking single payer with the same talking points, that the second he saw me disagreeing with single payer he assumed I was one in the same. He simply did not realize my point was in the context of savings. He has been trying to create a complex system where his initial believe still makes sense. Its the very thing he is accusing you of doing in the thread we are talking about evolution in.

 

[Rakehellion]

How do you educate sub-par students that take away nothing from their degree, assuming they graduate at all?

So you're implying that everyone who can't afford college is a lowlife degenerate dropout. Classy.

Even if this were the case, a partial college education is still an education and will get you further in life than merely a high school diploma.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So you're implying that everyone who can't afford college is a lowlife degenerate dropout. Classy.

Even if this were the case, a partial college education is still an education and will get you further in life than merely a high school diploma.

Who can't afford college? Federal loans and state grants exist, bro. All this about free education isn't about kids not being able to get into college, it's about kids not having to pay for college when they graduate with a shitload of debt.

 

[LegendKiller]

Who can't afford college? Federal loans and state grants exist, bro. All this about free education isn't about kids not being able to get into college, it's about kids not having to pay for college when they graduate with a shitload of debt.

Everybody can *BUY* a billion dollar home, provided that the government finances 100% of it with no underwriting.

But not everybody can *AFFORD* a billion dollar home.

 

[realibrad]

Everybody can *BUY* a billion dollar home, provided that the government finances 100% of it with no underwriting.

But not everybody can *AFFORD* a billion dollar home.

So you are saying there are degrees out there that do not allow you to pay back the super cheap loans the government backs? Isint that just a sign that the government should not backed that loan?

 

[ivwshane]

That is now how words work.

If A is not equal to be, then you cannot say that because B is true that A is true.

The vast majority of HS grads would not qualify. You are trying to say that because a few paths in HS can get you to the qualification, that a HS diploma is enough. That is not logical if you were able to achieve the diploma but did not do the other parts. If one part of the state is true, but the other is not, then the statement itself is False.

This should help you.

http://www.mathplanet.com/education/geometry/proof/if-then-statement

A conditional statement is false if hypothesis is true and the conclusion is false. In this case, the prerequisite is not the diploma, but the parts in the diploma. If you do not have the correct parts, you can still have a diploma and not get in. Super easy to understand.

Also, what about all the other crap you accused me of? I guess you did not want to address that stuff?

All you would have to do to save face here is to stop talking. Or even apologize for making a mistake. We have all messed up, and I know I have gotten things mixed up on here. I don't understand why you keep digging.

You are being dishonest again. Your claim was that no one with a high school diploma would qualify, you have now attempted to move the goal posts to say the vast majority of students wouldn't qualify.

Keep fucking that chicken

 

[realibrad]

You are being dishonest again. Your claim was that no one with a high school diploma would qualify, you have now attempted to move the goal posts to say the vast majority of students wouldn't qualify.

Keep fucking that chicken

Why are you doing this to yourself.

I never once said that nobody with just a HS diploma would qualify. I said a HS diploma was not enough, that you also had to meet qualifications. It is a fact that for most with a simple HS diploma they would not qualify.

So, from all the shit you accused me of, you now have it down to this one very narrow technicality a few people with just a HS diploma could qualify means that I said something wrong.

But wait, post #57 from me...

...

Further, not everyone is allowed to go to college, so its not free for anyone. First, you have to meet qualifications. If you were to get a HS diploma in the US, you would not qualify for free college in Germany. You must get certain certifications before you are allowed to go to college in Germany.

...

Just to give a little context, Sonikku made a comment which implied that German already gives away free college to everyone, which is not true. Germany gives college to a select few. If you were to just get a HS diploma in the majority of possible ways, you would not qualify. If you wanted to get into a German college, you would need to have other qualifications met that are outside of what is required for a HS diploma.

Hell, it clearly says that a GED would not count. A GED is a general equivalency diploma. That is to say that it is supposed to represent the basic level of a diploma. If that does not count, then what I said was correct.

I also like how you have dropped everything else you had contention with, as this is the only think you can now try and find the gray area in to say I was wrong. Had I added in a "just" in my original statement, which I thought was implied, then you would literally have nothing else to stand on.

So, what next?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I'm curious what this is based on. Just to pick UCSD arbitrarily, a large university also with a large endowment, you're looking at a $750 million endowment, vs 25,000 students * $12,000 annual tuition (assuming 100% are in-state which obviously isn't the case) and you're still looking at another $300 million. If you pick a lower-tier university, tuition could easily be on par.

I'm not sure what your point is to begin with.

Free tuition programs aren't going to offer world class universities like UC Berkeley/UCLA/UCSD for free. Honestly, the best you could probably get would be CSU schools or community colleges. Those who want a top notch education will still have to pay.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

To be fair I think the UC system is competitive enough already that fully subsidized tuition wouldn't affect the applicants too badly. However, unless there are details I'm missing, it's also worth nothing that apparently 60% of undergrads receive (on average) need-based aid equivalent to all costs minus room & board. I.e. there is no crisis of students not being able to attend college because they or their parents are too poor.

 

[ivwshane]

It's in your fucking quote bro, just stop.

Why are you doing this to yourself.

I never once said that nobody with just a HS diploma would qualify. I said a HS diploma was not enough, that you also had to meet qualifications. It is a fact that for most with a simple HS diploma they would not qualify.

So, from all the shit you accused me of, you now have it down to this one very narrow technicality a few people with just a HS diploma could qualify means that I said something wrong.

But wait, post #57 from me...



Just to give a little context, Sonikku made a comment which implied that German already gives away free college to everyone, which is not true. Germany gives college to a select few. If you were to just get a HS diploma in the majority of possible ways, you would not qualify. If you wanted to get into a German college, you would need to have other qualifications met that are outside of what is required for a HS diploma.

Hell, it clearly says that a GED would not count. A GED is a general equivalency diploma. That is to say that it is supposed to represent the basic level of a diploma. If that does not count, then what I said was correct.

I also like how you have dropped everything else you had contention with, as this is the only think you can now try and find the gray area in to say I was wrong. Had I added in a "just" in my original statement, which I thought was implied, then you would literally have nothing else to stand on.

So, what next?

 

[realibrad]

It's in your fucking quote bro, just stop.

And there it is. Any rational person can see that you have nothing left. Congrats.

You have fully fucked that chicken.

 

[ivwshane]

And there it is. Any rational person can see that you have nothing left. Congrats.

You have fully fucked that chicken.

You aren't rational, hell you can't even see that what you said and what you quoted is a direct contradiction to what you just said.

 

[realibrad]

You aren't rational, hell you can't even see that what you said and what you quoted is a direct contradiction to what you just said.

What I said is that a HS diploma will not get you into a German college, and it wont. You will need a HS diploma with a very select set of classes that fall under HS diploma. If you just had the average HS diploma, you would not be allowed to enter without further qualifications to supplement.

You would need a HS diploma and more stuff on top of that. Which is why I said...

If you were to get a HS diploma in the US, you would not qualify for free college in Germany.

I thought it was clear that the contest was if you were to just get a HS diploma, which is what I clarified in post #91.

I said you need to get further qualifications beyond a HS diploma. You cannot get into college in Germany with just a US diploma. In the US you can. You might have to take extra classes if you missed some classes in HS.

It would be incorrect to say that a HS diploma would grant you entrance into a German college, as the vast majority of HS diplomas would not qualify. If part of the statement is false, the statement is considered to be false. You would need a HS diploma plus a specific set of classes at achieve a particular grade.

Again, if from everything you claimed I said was wrong, this is all you have left, then you are being an idiot. You seem to think I have been advocating for a position I do not hold.

If you want to drag this out, I will go down the rabbit hole with you. My GF is in GA so I have lots of free time right now.

 

[buckshot24]

No, I think he is so used to those on the right attacking single payer with the same talking points, that the second he saw me disagreeing with single payer he assumed I was one in the same. He simply did not realize my point was in the context of savings. He has been trying to create a complex system where his initial believe still makes sense. Its the very thing he is accusing you of doing in the thread we are talking about evolution in.

No, he's a hack.

 

[realibrad]

No, he's a hack.

Hmm... how bout I do this.


Does anyone believe I was incorrect in how I phrased my statement?

You can reply to this post, or PM me. Either way.

 

[Attic]

Yeah, we can afford $1.3T of health care overspending for no better results than the rest of the developed world. But we can't afford free 4 years of college for every American. See a pattern? If it's going to corporate profits in excess of added value and monopoly rents, then somehow we can afford it, no problem. But if it's actually helping Americans, oh noes, there is no money. Just cut the BS.

Yes.

The girl will need to look at the double think being used against her, while at the same time avoiding using it to make her point.


We don't need to make college free, we do need to work to make it affordable.

The truth is, debt beholden to the many is the lifeblood of the ultra rich. It is not by accident these college kids have been strapped with debt. I don't think the girl, nor most, appreciate why kids are being stapled with debt as soon as they leave home. They are going to be debt slaves for most of their adult lives, constantly working to pay interest on leveraged cost of items (due to debt inflating costs of everything), and the owners of the leveraged debt system will grow more rich continuing to collect small percentages of massive holdings.


Yes, we can afford to fix the college system, if we did we'd give more power and wealth and control to the majority, instead of consildating that in the few. World as it is versus the world as we'd like it to be.


Cliffs: College debt is a well designed form of social control. Root causes are misunderstood and under appreciated, so change is unlikely. The goal and achieved result will continue to be to have college costs rising well beyond official "inflation". The kids are being conditioned to carry large loads of debt before they know any better.

Ultra Cliffs: Bankers > ***. Know your role.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Didn't read the thread but I'll throw my opinion in,

I'm for free techinical schools (2 year) that actually teaches a trade (not poetry)
For a four year degree I'm not, if everyone is allowed to go to college it overburdens and waters down our higher Ed system.

 

[Zorkorist]

Can we charge you for all the free 2 year technical school degrees?

Visa? or Amex?

-John

 

[UglyCasanova]

Sure go ahead.

Learning actual trade skills will eventually pay for itself since these people will be doing something productive rather than flipping burgers. A university degree to me is something more abstract that requires you to take the knowledge learned and have the capacity to utilize in less straightforward ways.

 

[Zorkorist]

Maybe you should go to grammar school?

Civics? (that's a short word, that means understanding Government, Politics, etc.)

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Sure go ahead.

Learning actual trade skills will eventually pay for itself since these people will be doing something productive rather than flipping burgers. A university degree to me is something more abstract that requires you to take the knowledge learned and have the capacity to utilize in less straightforward ways.

All schooling, technical, and higher education is ridiculously expensive today, because Government keeps spending into debt.

It's pretty much for sure that someone doing welding, or car repair, etc. will never be able to afford the "certifications" that Government requires.

They will live their lives forever indebted to Government.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

We're coming into the age where only the privileged, can have skills, or education.

Again.

-John

 

[Spungo]

All schooling, technical, and higher education is ridiculously expensive today, because Government keeps spending into debt.

It's really strange how that worked out. Back in 1950, most people didn't go to college. Lots of people didn't even finish high school. If your employer wanted you to know shit, they would teach you on the job. I won't say what industry I work in, but most of the senior designers have no formal training. They just have tons of experience. They learned everything on the job.

We all assumed that teaching more people to be skilled would create a super strong economy where everyone is skilled, producing stuff, and contributing to a record high trade surplus. What happened next was shocking. As it turns out, and this seems obvious in hindsight, the demand for skilled labor is limited because the the demand for manufactured goods is partially limited by technology and the ability to find paying customers. There are a billion people in Africa we would like to sell refrigerators to, but they have no way of paying for them, so there's no reason to create refrigerators for them. It doesn't matter if we have 1000 factories or 100000 factories creating refrigerators - having more supply does not automatically increase sales. Supply side economics might work on a very small level, but diminishing returns is a real thing. 2 welders is better than 1 welder, but is 2 million welders better than 1 million welders? What if there is only enough demand for 100k welders? Diminishing returns. Adding more skilled labor does nothing to improve trade or productivity at that point, but it still has a cost associated with it.

And that's where we are today. We went all-in on supply side economics and it failed miserably. Instead of creating some magical utopia where millions of people can all be professional philosophers, we created an economy where millions of people hold a philosophy degree but work at Starbucks.

 

[QuantumPion]

I'm all for publicly paid for higher education, with the following conditions:

1) community college only, for first 2 years, can then transfer to public in-state university.
2) STEM/business/arts/education/etc only (i.e. no purely academic/humanities/basket weaving degrees. If you want to pursue those degrees you have to do so on your own dime/loans).
3) minimum GPA, course load, & attendance requirements
4) no living expenses. This is not an adult baby sitting program, you still have to live with parents or work to support yourself. I think this is a big contributor to the massive student loan debt we have today - kids use college as 4+ years party time.