Was Trump getting help from Russia illegal?

[fskimospy]

I think you might be misjudging the last election. If you think Trump being elected was about hurt feelings I’m not sure what to tell you.

You don’t need to tell me anything, these are the explicit claims conservatives have made. If they were just bullshitting that’s fine.

 

[fskimospy]

No?

Okay great, that answers that then.

 

[Jhhnn]

Fool have you forgotten

I know how those two feel about it but UglyCassanova claims to possess a more rational headset so I asked him to address the truth directly. Probably not.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Probably not, no, unless the campaign was just using the intermediary to launder things and there is no evidence of that

Opposition research has taken an unsavory detour, especially when you have foreign governments seeking to curry favor with candidates by providing information that is most likely originating from intelligence apparatus or through former agents now offering their “consulting services”

 

[Jhhnn]

Opposition research has taken an unsavory detour, especially when you have foreign governments seeking to curry favor with candidates by providing information that is most likely originating from intelligence apparatus or through former agents now offering their “consulting services”

Russian efforts went far, far beyond that. They didn't do it for the MAGA, either, but rather to fuck us up, to mess with our minds, to help us make the worst choice possible. They know what they're doing, make no mistake about that.

And here we are, all fucked up, with Trump voters deep, deep in denial about having been manipulated.

 

[Moonbeam]

Russian efforts went far, far beyond that. They didn't do it for the MAGA, either, but rather to fuck us up, to mess with our minds, to help us make the worst choice possible. They know what they're doing, make no mistake about that.

And here we are, all fucked up. with Trump voters deep, deep in denial about having been manipulated.

Because of the fact that we have allowed money to make the rules of our competitive game and the fear of losing creates hate, a need to control, and the most ruthless and self centered at the top of the game. We provide the kindling and the Russians provided the match. An oligarchic Mafia ate their system and they've come to the feast of ours.

 

[JSt0rm]

op left after he was corrected. Close the thread. its shit.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Russian efforts went far, far beyond that. They didn't do it for the MAGA, either, but rather to fuck us up, to mess with our minds, to help us make the worst choice possible. They know what they're doing, make no mistake about that.

And here we are, all fucked up, with Trump voters deep, deep in denial about having been manipulated.

And Clinton supporters are in deeper denial over why she lost. It’s not like targeting her trustworthiness and like ability was an unprecedented plan of attack. Obama beat her with the exact same playbook.

The FBI server investigation is what kept her off message and on defense. Both parties should have had the sense and decency to pull their respective candidates.

Here we are

 

[Jhhnn]

And Clinton supporters are in deeper denial over why she lost. It’s not like targeting her trustworthiness and like ability was an unprecedented plan of attack. Obama beat her with the exact same playbook.

The FBI server investigation is what kept her off message and on defense. Both parties should have had the sense and decency to pull their respective candidates.

Here we are

Trump's opponent is really immaterial to the fact that the Russians successfully backed Trump. They helped him twiddle Americans' minds in no small way. As long as he's President they'll keep on winning, too.

 

[zerocool84]

Trump's opponent is really immaterial to the fact that the Russians successfully backed Trump. They helped him twiddle Americans' minds in no small way. As long as he's President they'll keep on winning, too.

But they never fail to bring up Obama or Hilary because there is no defending Trump or his administration so they have to deflect as much as they can.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Trump's opponent is really immaterial to the fact that the Russians successfully backed Trump. They helped him twiddle Americans' minds in no small way. As long as he's President they'll keep on winning, too.

Of course his opponent is material. The Russians, like the Chinese, are playing the long game. In this election, two stars aligned for the Russians...a candidate willing to serve as a vehicle and willing idiot for the Russians, and another candidate weakened by self inflicted wounds. I honestly doubt we would be having this conversation had Sanders won the nomination.

 

[Jhhnn]

But they never fail to bring up Obama or Hilary because there is no defending Trump or his administration so they have to deflect as much as they can.

They'll double down every time, too. The lingering notion that Hillary was somehow worse than Trump just shows how well their thought processes have been scrambled. They got chumped by the best in the business & they'll stay that way rather than copping to it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Of course his opponent is material. The Russians, like the Chinese, are playing the long game. In this election, two stars aligned for the Russians...a candidate willing to serve as a vehicle and willing idiot for the Russians, and another candidate weakened by self inflicted wounds. I honestly doubt we would be having this conversation had Sanders won the nomination.

The Russians would have thrown in for Trump just the same because they know he's poison for America. We'll emerge from the Trump presidency weaker and more fractious than we went in which suits their purposes entirely.

If you want to blame anybody pin it on the people who fell for it, not the people who didn't.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The Russians would have thrown in for Trump just the same because they know he's poison for America. We'll emerge from the Trump presidency weaker and more fractious than we went in which suits their purposes entirely.

If you want to blame anybody pin it on the people who fell for it, not the people who didn't.

I blame the people who sent forward compromised candidates under FBI investigation. In a rational world, that alone should disqualify any candidate.

 

[Jhhnn]

I blame the people who sent forward compromised candidates under FBI investigation. In a rational world, that alone should disqualify any candidate.

From fantasy to revisionist history, huh? The FBI cleared Clinton of wrongdoing before she was nominated.

The truth is that Trump & his Russian friends absolutely hornswaggled 63M Americans. It was a brilliant victory in the art of propaganda that will be emulated & studied for decades to come.

 

[Starbuck1975]

From fantasy to revisionist history, huh? The FBI cleared Clinton of wrongdoing before she was nominated.

The FBI also reprimanded Clinton for negligence, which fits with the narrative of trustworthiness that even Obama used to defeat her.

Also, the Weiner laptop and Abedin emails sucked the oxygen out of the room in the critical days before the election.

You cannot honestly claim that the FBI investigation wasn’t a constant narrative theme throughout the campaign season, and that it kept Clinton on defense.

The truth is that Trump & his Russian friends absolutely hornswaggled 63M Americans. It was a brilliant victory in the art of propaganda that will be emulated & studied for decades to come.

The Russians unquestionably helped, but propoganda only works if you have a vulnerable target, which Clinton adequately provided.

 

[fskimospy]

And Clinton supporters are in deeper denial over why she lost. It’s not like targeting her trustworthiness and like ability was an unprecedented plan of attack. Obama beat her with the exact same playbook.

The FBI server investigation is what kept her off message and on defense. Both parties should have had the sense and decency to pull their respective candidates.

Here we are

Clinton won the popular vote by approximately the same amount that GWB won it by, it was just distributed poorly. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone refer to GWB as some uniquely flawed candidate.

We need to stop trying to blame Democrats for the Republicans being awful. It’s Republicans’ fault they supported Trump and theirs alone. It is even more their fault that they are now attempting to cover up his collusion with a hostile foreign power. After we hold Trump accountable those who enabled him must be next.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Clinton won the popular vote by approximately the same amount that GWB won it by, it was just distributed poorly. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone refer to GWB as some uniquely flawed candidate.

But GWB was a uniquely flawed candidate. Do you honestly think in today’s age of social media, GWB even makes it out of the primary?

We need to stop trying to blame Democrats for the Republicans being awful. It’s Republicans’ fault they supported Trump and theirs alone. It is even more their fault that they are now attempting to cover up his collusion with a hostile foreign power. After we hold Trump accountable those who enabled him must be next.

All of that is true, and the GOP will pay the price for cozying up to Trump. I will let Mueller decide if Trump willingly colluded or was simply a useful idiot who went into damage control mode. Obstruction and not collusion is the more likely finding.

You also have to acknowledge that the Democrats made some fatal flaws. They helped legitimize Trump to throw the GOP nomination into chaos. Democrats believed in the inevitability of Clinton and completely overlooked the populist sentiments of the electorate.

Also, any candidate under FBI investigation is going to be crippled going into a general election, especially a candidate already taken down once due to trustworthiness.

 

[Jhhnn]

The FBI also reprimanded Clinton for negligence, which fits with the narrative of trustworthiness that even Obama used to defeat her.

Also, the Weiner laptop and Abedin emails sucked the oxygen out of the room in the critical days before the election.

You cannot honestly claim that the FBI investigation wasn’t a constant narrative theme throughout the campaign season, and that it kept Clinton on defense.

The Russians unquestionably helped, but propoganda only works if you have a vulnerable target, which Clinton adequately provided.

The vulnerable target, the voters, was provided by decades of relentless & corrosive GOP agitprop coupled with top down class warfare. The fact that anybody ever entertained the notion of Trump for president shows that their minds were turned to mush. The fact that buttery males could be turned into the defining issue of the campaign shows the same thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

Clinton won the popular vote by approximately the same amount that GWB won it by, it was just distributed poorly. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone refer to GWB as some uniquely flawed candidate.

We need to stop trying to blame Democrats for the Republicans being awful. It’s Republicans’ fault they supported Trump and theirs alone. It is even more their fault that they are now attempting to cover up his collusion with a hostile foreign power. After we hold Trump accountable those who enabled him must be next.

GWB actually lost the popular vote by .5%. Trump lost the popular vote by 2.1%.

Trump apologists' obfuscations are tedious. The fact that Trump actually won just shows how well propaganda works. As Jerry Springer once pointed out "Crap Sells" & there's no better example than the current occupant of the oval office.

 

[Jhhnn]

But GWB was a uniquely flawed candidate. Do you honestly think in today’s age of social media, GWB even makes it out of the primary?


All of that is true, and the GOP will pay the price for cozying up to Trump. I will let Mueller decide if Trump willingly colluded or was simply a useful idiot who went into damage control mode. Obstruction and not collusion is the more likely finding.

You also have to acknowledge that the Democrats made some fatal flaws. They helped legitimize Trump to throw the GOP nomination into chaos. Democrats believed in the inevitability of Clinton and completely overlooked the populist sentiments of the electorate.

Also, any candidate under FBI investigation is going to be crippled going into a general election, especially a candidate already taken down once due to trustworthiness.

Trump completely annihilated his primary opponents with a 20 point spread over his nearest competitor, Ted Cruz, also a top tier charlatan. Dems didn't turn GOP primary voters into raving chumps- their leadership did over a period of decades.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It all hinges on the existence of underlying criminal acts. But even the linked article offers several paragraphs which refute any equivalence between whatever Ukraine or its operatives did and provided to the Clinton campaign unsolicited -- and the Russian psy-war campaign and profoundly numerous contacts with the Trump campaign.

Here's an aspect I've mentioned before. There had been no further mention of it since late 2015 when I e-mailed the White House inquiring about more details. there were two major "school-terror" hoaxes, very similar in nature and timed (or scheduled) to occur within 48 hours prior to a major GOP debate and then a Democratic town hall. The two largest urban school districts in the country -- LAUSD and NYC schools -- were targeted with e-mails threatening a major attack to blow up the kids. Real muslim radical terrorists would not just create a hoax: they would have literally blown up the kids. But the attacks provided a sounding-board theme to Trump in the debate, to which other GOP hopefuls offered their own knee-jerk responses. It would also allow a contrast with the Dem oppositions response.

FBI later explained that the origins of the threats were IP addresses in "eastern" Germany. If Putin's psy-war campaign was behind those hoaxes, then millions of parents and their children in predominately Blue voting districts were terrorized. It was definitely terror; it just didn't follow up with the violence.

And if those acts, illegal that they were, were used to influence the campaign, then Trump benefited from it.

Was Trump behind it? Who knows? But there are all sorts of possible aspects of criminal responsibility to the other aspects of the Russian psy-war campaign that could (and do!) haunt elements of the Trump campaign and Trump himself. One only needs to prove foreknowledge to charge Trump with misprision of Treason or misprision of a felony -- which are both criminal and impeachable.

On the other side of those facts that might lead to proof of collusion and treasonous collaboration, there are Trump's own acts which seem to consistently support Russian agendas as a geopolitical adversary of the US. Trump has gutted the state department as a tool of American influence throughout the world. He has promoted distrust of our national security apparatus -- damning the messengers who brought news of the Russian campaign. He has damaged our relationship with NATO and other allies.

The list goes on. Basically, Trump is playing along with the most logical elements of a Russian agenda to damage US influence around the world.

In comparison, Ukraine has a pittance of resources to do anything similar, and whatever their agenda, it is simply to obtain American support in their conflict against the Russians.

 

[Jhhnn]

Ukraine? They were likely trying to arrest Manafort but he managed to flee the country with the rest of the Yanukovych lootocracy.

Of course they're sucking up to Trump at this point. They apparently paid Michael Cohen a big chunk of change for supposedly helping them gain access.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Trump completely annihilated his primary opponents with a 20 point spread over his nearest competitor, Ted Cruz, also a top tier charlatan. Dems didn't turn GOP primary voters into raving chumps- their leadership did over a period of decades.

Have you ever seriously paused to question why Trump was able to do so? Maybe if the media didn’t obsess over his every Tweet, and others didn’t legitimize Trump for a variety of reasons, he wouldn’t have made it out of the primaries.

Pied piper strategy. You reap what you sow.

 

[fskimospy]

GWB actually lost the popular vote by .5%. Trump lost the popular vote by 2.1%.

Trump apologists' obfuscations are tedious. The fact that Trump actually won just shows how well propaganda works. As Jerry Springer once pointed out "Crap Sells" & there's no better example than the current occupant of the oval office.

2004, not 2000.