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Was Trump getting help from Russia illegal?

omega3

omega3

Senior member
So it seems very likely that Trump got help from Russia to defeat Clinton, however is that any different from Clinton trying to get dirt on Trump from the Ukraine which her campaign called "opposition research"?

What specifically needs to be proven legally for Trump's actions to be classified as criminal?

Also, are these state and/or federal crimes? Trump can pardon people involved in federal crimes I believe.
 
omega3 said:
So it seems very likely that Trump got help from Russia to defeat Clinton, however is that any different from Clinton trying to get dirt on Trump from the Ukraine which her campaign called "opposition research"?

What specifically needs to be proven legally for Trump's actions to be classified as criminal?

Also, are these state and/or federal crimes? Trump can pardon people involved in federal crimes I believe.
Click to expand...

Gotta love that part (bolded).....baseless accusation with no proof whatsoever in an attempt to build the "whataboutism" deflection for Trump's actions.
 
omega3 said:
Not baseless, read following for example: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

As an independent i try to look at all his objectively, so how was the collusion of the clinton campaign with ukraine different from trump getting help from russia?
Click to expand...

If you read the article this is the action of one person who was not directed by the campaign to do what she is alleged to have done. She acted in an independent capacity. Her purpose for being involved with the campaign was outreach to the Ukranian-American population, not to pull a Trump Jr to find information for the campaign to use against Trump politically. Supposedly she did investigation independently, and she was hacked and then her apartment tossed for her efforts.

That's a far cry from the campaign itself sending her out to damage Trump.
 
omega3 said:
Not baseless, read following for example: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

As an independent i try to look at all his objectively, so how was the collusion of the clinton campaign with ukraine different from trump getting help from russia?
Click to expand...
I an the same as you an independent who looks at things objectively. In my case I carried it to a merciless degree, realizing in the end that what I called objective was anything that conformed to any of the thousand tons of bull shit I had previously in my life been inculcated with. My advise to you then, would be to go look at yourself in the mirror and laugh in your face. Then you can call yourself a fucking liar.
 
Although I do consider it treasonous, reading this I’m not sure he would be able to be charged for it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_laws_in_the_United_States

In Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution, treason is specifically limited to levying war against the US, or adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. Conviction requires two witnesses or a confession in open court.
Click to expand...


If we consider meddling in our election an act of war (enormous repercussions if we do) then it would be. I’m sure there is something he can be charged with. It won’t happen - once they reach that level the law doesn’t touch them - but I’m sure they could.

The country needs an accurate accounting of what happened, I hope Mueller can deliver and soon. No matter if it is guilty or not, we need to know the truth.
 
Think about the implications if the presidency ever swung back to a Democrat. Foremost implications for Russia.
Thus it stands to reason that plans are in motion to prevent that from ever happening again.
Outlook : Not So Good.
 
omega3 said:
So it seems very likely that Trump got help from Russia to defeat Clinton, however is that any different from Clinton trying to get dirt on Trump from the Ukraine which her campaign called "opposition research"?
Click to expand...

Yes, super different. Clinton hired people to go find out bad things about Trump. That is 100% legal. It appears here that Trump accepted and encouraged Russia to donate opposition research (crime #1) that was obtained through criminal activity. (Crime #2) Trump has since attempted to obstruct the investigation (crime #3) and his associates have repeatedly lied to the FBI and Congress about it. (Crime #4-infinity)

What specifically needs to be proven legally for Trump's actions to be classified as criminal?

Also, are these state and/or federal crimes? Trump can pardon people involved in federal crimes I believe.
Click to expand...

As far as campaign finance goes, if he solicited it that’s illegal. More likely what you’re going to end up finding though is a web of shady financial transactions between everyone that’s going to amount to a ton of bank fraud, wire fraud, etc. These crimes are both state and federal.
 
fskimospy said:
Clinton hired people to go find out bad things about Trump. That is 100% legal.
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If those people hired find their bad things out from another nations intelligence network does that change things?


As far as campaign finance goes, if he solicited it that’s illegal. More likely what you’re going to end up finding though is a web of shady financial transactions between everyone that’s going to amount to a ton of bank fraud, wire fraud, etc. These crimes are both state and federal.
Click to expand...


What about speaking fees, birthday presents, etc from other nations.
 
Campaign finance law states that no foreign aid is allowed to be contributed to a campaign. Aid comes in many different forms.
 
UglyCasanova said:
If those people hired find their bad things out from another nations intelligence network does that change things?


That's s good question and probably why Clinton didn't use any of the Steele dossier. In theory if you go through an American company you should be insulated even though that company used foreign sources. However that could easily be abused as an unscrupulous politician could simply go through a front company to receive aid from foreign entities. In fact I believe that that might even be the case with several Republicans.
Click to expand...


What about speaking fees, birthday presents, etc from other nations.
Click to expand...


See bolded.
 
UglyCasanova said:
If those people hired find their bad things out from another nations intelligence network does that change things?
Click to expand...

Probably not, no, unless the campaign was just using the intermediary to launder things and there is no evidence of that.

What about speaking fees, birthday presents, etc from other nations.
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Lol, are you being serious right now?
 
fskimospy said:
Probably not, no, unless the campaign was just using the intermediary to launder things and there is no evidence of that.



Lol, are you being serious right now?
Click to expand...

But Hillary! is the call they make to each other when diving into a bunker o' denial. There are so many of those in Trumplandia that it looks like Albania.
 
UglyCasanova said:
Im not a Trumpkin and what is it that I’m denying?
Click to expand...

Reality. Whether he was complicit or not, the Russians engaged in a brilliant & audacious strategy to help Trump get into the White House. That's demonstrably true. So if you're standing with Trump you're standing with them, too. If you think they're in it for the MAGA you have been cruelly deceived.

How do you feel about that very important part of the truth?
 
Jhhnn said:
Reality. Whether he was complicit or not, the Russians engaged in a brilliant & audacious strategy to help Trump get into the White House. That's demonstrably true. So if you're standing with Trump you're standing with them, too. If you think they're in it for the MAGA you have been cruelly deceived.

How do you feel about that very important part of the truth?
Click to expand...

Fool have you forgotten

OGYvbkB.png
 
Fanatical Meat said:
Fool have you forgotten

OGYvbkB.png
Click to expand...

I always found this funny that conservatives simultaneously argued that the PC ‘feelings’ people were why people voted for Trump while simultaneously saying people voted for Trump because liberals were mean to them.

It was always the same thing. Their feelings were the important ones.
 
fskimospy said:
I always found this funny that conservatives simultaneously argued that the PC ‘feelings’ people were why people voted for Trump while simultaneously saying people voted for Trump because liberals were mean to them.

It was always the same thing. Their feelings were the important ones.
Click to expand...


I think you might be misjudging the last election. If you think Trump being elected was about hurt feelings I’m not sure what to tell you.
 
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