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was the "new testament" actually finished around 400 AD?

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JD50 said:
Great, then provide some evidence.
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I know this is difficult for you...but I said miracles cannot, CANNOT be proven 2000 years after they happened.

The proof were eye-witnesses, and the beneficiaries of such acts, who are dead (yeah, I know its also convenient that humans don't live 2000 years, huh?)

You're faced with believing them or not, or calling them [insert word here].
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Some claims are verifiable and some are not. Several people in this thread have made claims that are, in fact, easily verifiable...however, when asked to provide evidence to support their allegations they become strangely silent. How curious is that? Spiritual matters may not be your cup of tea...but asking for proof in such matters is an exercise in futility and you know it. The only hint that an atheist has that something may be awry with their "perception" is that only about 2% of their fellow humans beings share such a world view.
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And what percentage of human beings over the course of time has believed in your god?
 
Rob M. said:
I know this is difficult for you...but I said miracles cannot, CANNOT be proven 2000 years after they happened.

The proof were eye-witnesses, and the beneficiaries of such acts, who are dead (yeah, I know its also convenient that humans don't live 2000 years, huh?)

You're faced with believing them or not, or calling them [insert word here].
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You have agreed that any claim of truth requires evidence. You have not provided evidence. I am sure you can understand why someone would be skeptical of some shephards that lived 2000 years ago claiming that a virgin gave birth.
 
JD50 said:
You have agreed that any claim of truth requires evidence. You have not provided evidence. I am sure you can understand why someone would be skeptical of some shephards that lived 2000 years ago claiming that a virgin gave birth.
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I know why people are skeptical, and that's fine, and they should be.

But these magical claims are not magical at all, as I've demonstrated, a virgin can give birth today via modern medicine.

Those who believe in the power of God are NOT skeptical of this for the simple fact a virgin giving birth can be duplicated today, and *if* God is powerful enough to create the Universe, a virgin birth is child's-play.
 
Rob M. said:
I know why people are skeptical, and that's fine, and they should be.

But these magical claims are not magical at all, as I've demonstrated, a virgin can give birth today via modern medicine.

Those who believe in the power of God are NOT skeptical of this for the simple fact a virgin giving birth can be duplicated today, and *if* God is powerful enough to create the Universe, a virgin birth is child's-play.
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It is a magical claim when you're claiming it happened without the use of modern medicine.
 
JD50 said:
It is a magical claim when you're claiming it happened without the use of modern medicine.
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You're assuming that ONLY modern medicine can produce such a feat, because that's all you've seen. I bet the witnesses of this "magic" would beg to differ with you.

I can rightly say you are an atheist ONLY because of the time period you were born in, and you ONLY lack belief because this is indeed an age of skepticism?

Would I be right?
 
Rob M. said:
You're assuming that ONLY modern medicine can produce such a feat, because that's all you've seen. I bet the witnesses of this "magic" would beg to differ with you.
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If you have evidence that it's possible without modern medicine, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it.
I can rightly say you are an atheist ONLY because of the time period you were born in, and you ONLY lack belief because this is indeed an age of skepticism?

Would I be right?
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Well, I'm sure there's always been atheists, but you're partially right. The more knowledge we gain, the more skeptical we become of "miracles". If I lived in a time when magic was assumed to be real I'd be much more likely to believe in... magic.
 
Can we just cut to the chase here Rob? Do you have any other proof that virgin birth is possible without the use of modern medicine other than 2,000 year old "eyewitness" testimony?

Edit - rephrased my question
 
JD50 said:
If you have evidence that it's possible without modern medicine, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it.
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The only evidence I have are the testimonies of the persons who say they witnessed it, and wrote it down. I believe them, you don't.

That's really what it boils down to. The question you should be asking is if they're credible or not.


Well, I'm sure there's always been atheists, but you're partially right. The more knowledge we gain, the more skeptical we become of "miracles".
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Not necessarily. The more science learns, the less thing are "impossible', so we believe there isn't anything we cannot do if we put our minds to it.

Going back 500 years ago, it would be called "magic" if someone saw us talking on a cell phone, or using a computer. Science make what would be deemed "magic", "impossible" as something probable, real, existing.

I'm simply saying that if humans can do it, why is it so hard for God to.
 
JD50 said:
And what percentage of human beings over the course of time has believed in your god?
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I would imagine a vast majority assuming today's percentages of atheists holds up over the course of time. Spirituality is an innate human attribute...has been and always will be in my opinion.
 
JD50 said:
Oh are you going with this line of argument as well? X% of people believe what I believe so it must be true?
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When one holds an extreme minority opinion...perhaps it is reasonable to believe that they're the ones who should be re-evaluating what they think is true. No?
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
I would imagine a vast majority assuming today's percentages of atheists holds up over the course of time. Spirituality is an innate human attribute...has been and always will be in my opinion.
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I don't think you have any idea what I'm asking you. I'm not talking about belief in a god, I'm talking about belief in YOUR god. You're trying to say that I'm wrong because 98% of the world disagrees with me. So again, what percentage of the the Human population over the course of history has believed in YOUR god?
 
Rob M. said:
The only evidence I have are the testimonies of the persons who say they witnessed it, and wrote it down. I believe them, you don't.

That's really what it boils down to. The question you should be asking is if they're credible or not.
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Thank you.

I'm sure you're aware of how unreliable eyewitness testimony is, so I won't go there. I'm also sure you've heard the term "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I have a hard time believing that a rational person considers 2000 year old eyewitness testimony "extraordinary evidence."
 
norseamd said:
watch unmistaken child. it is available free online. it is documented on video, and the monk talks about being careful about assuming things.



look up gnostism in wikipedia.
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I know you are new, so I am going to help you out a bit.

Telling us to "look something up" or "watch something" doesn't go over well here. Most of us are at work and don't really have time to do 3 hours of research before we post. In general we post from our previous knowledge and our hearts.

If you would like to post interesting or relevant information from those sources, it would be much appreciated. Otherwise 99% of us will never have a clue what you are referring to.

Welcome to AT!
 
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