Was it morally right to kill Usama bin Ladan?

[HAL9000]

Would it be morally right to ban HAL9000 simply because his posts are annoying?

Yeah I don't see why not.

 

[bfdd]

You don't give anything a chance. Like I said you're delusional and worse in denial about it! You're also done there because you have absolutely no rebuttal to what I said.

 

[Malak]

You make it sound like the US deserved 9/11, or something.

Is that what you think?

You make it sound like Bin Laden had no justification, but we do. Civilians dead on both sides.

 

[Malak]

We never achieved peace with Japan or Germany?

We didn't achieve peace by blowing their shit up. You are implying that nuking a country is ok because maybe they won't attack us after.

 

[datalink7]

We didn't achieve peace by blowing their shit up. You are implying that nuking a country is ok because maybe they won't attack us after.

You simplify the issue too much.

War laid the groundwork for peace with both of those countries. Peace is not as simple as you would make it out to be.

 

[shiner]

We didn't achieve peace by blowing their shit up. You are implying that nuking a country is ok because maybe they won't attack us after.

 

[fire400]

for the SEALs it was a routine mission with no expectations of finding Osama, but with the hopes of finding Osama.

caught in a fire fight, Osama died in the process.

the mission was shoot to kill.

Osama got away a few times in the past, and the priority was to not let that happen ever again.

too much time and money had gone into the operation of planning and execution, they couldn't risk an enemy lock-down on the JSOC warriors either.

all in all, terrorists fight with bullets, just about any country in the world would do the same - fight back with bullets.

 

[Vic Vega]

We seem to have some members who believe there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to kill someone. What do you think?

I don't believe in "morals" as I am not religious.

Justice and humanity at large required he be killed.

As Mr. Obama said, justice has been done.

 

[HAL9000]

I don't believe in "morals" as I am not religious.

Justice and humanity at large required he be killed.

As Mr. Obama said, justice has been done.

You don't believe in morals? So what about good or evil, right or wrong? Don't you have some kind of sense of conscience.

 

[zinfamous]

I win!

He's FLIP-FLOPPING!!

 

[HAL9000]

He's FLIP-FLOPPING!!

???

 

[zinfamous]

It was morally wrong of Clinton not to kill him when he got the opportunity.

lol.

let me replace something:

It was morally wrong for Bush not to kill him when he got the opportunity.

 

[M0RPH]

caught in a fire fight, Osama died in the process.

He was not caught in a fire fight, he was an unarmed man that was executed. I'm not necessarily saying it was wrong, but let's at least call it like it is. Our people have already been caught in lies, saying he was armed and using a woman as a shield, then changing the story.

 

[zinfamous]

You make it sound like Bin Laden had no justification, but we do. Civilians dead on both sides.

there is no justification for how bin Laden chose to react. there is a difference for having legitimate gripes--as jihadists have had for many, many years--and the legitimacy of how they respond to these acts.

You simply do not order the mass murder of innocent civilians. That is a centuries-old code that is acceptable only in religious texts.

You can argue that without power, without a nation to act behind, impoverished and starving disaffected groups (of which bin Laden most certainly is not--but the people he recruits are), have little option to influence or fight against an established, powerful nation.

Sure, they feel their culture being threatened. Much the same way that teabaggers fear the brown people from the south stealing their god-given culture over here. It should be easy for teabaggers and other fundies to empathize with the plight of jihadists, b/c, in a way...it is similar--but it is morally unsound for any group to act in the way that jihadists act..

Further--what is the culture that they want to maintain? Uneducated women, child rape, theocratic rule, draconian law, fascistic despotism, and subjugation of general human rights all over.

This is, if you ask me, not a culture worth protecting.

 

[zinfamous]

You simplify the issue too much.

War laid the groundwork for peace with both of those countries. Peace is not as simple as you would make it out to be.

He also seems to forget that it was a war started by Germany, Italy, and Japan.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Are you saying you win at creating a troll thread?

Yes I win at that.

Well kinda...

Zinfamous made an error of proportionality by suggesting this was a troll thread. I mean he was on the right track, but to suggest this is a troll is misleading. Trolling implies casting wide nets or long lines into the sea, large weather-beaten boats with crackling paint and vast dark holds, men in waders with thick cable-knit wool sweaters and caps clawing at ropes as they are pounded by icy waves, and men with corpulent bristly mustaches named, Vic.

This was more like a trip to the traveling carnival fishing for cheerful little yellow plastic ducks with a magnet attached to a child's toy, trying to win a stuffed Teddy bear for a sweetheart.

 

[HAL9000]

Yes I win at that.

Well kinda...

Zinfamous made an error of proportionality by suggesting this was a troll thread. I mean he was on the right track, but to suggest this is a troll is misleading. Trolling implies casting wide nets or long lines into the sea, large weather-beaten boats with crackling paint and vast dark holds, men in waders with thick cable-knit wool sweaters and caps clawing at ropes as they are pounded by icy waves, and men with corpulent bristly mustaches named, Vic.

This was more like a trip to the traveling carnival fishing for cheerful little yellow plastic ducks with a magnet attached to a child's toy, trying to win a stuffed Teddy bear for a sweetheart.

Good spot, this was a successful fishing thread.

 

[Malak]

there is no justification for how bin Laden chose to react. there is a difference for having legitimate gripes--as jihadists have had for many, many years--and the legitimacy of how they respond to these acts.

Declaring war however possible is not ok for him, but is ok for the rest of the world? We can bomb their neighborhood but they can't bomb ours?

You simply do not order the mass murder of innocent civilians. That is a centuries-old code that is acceptable only in religious texts.

Really? Never heard of a single war that didn't involve killing mass amounts of civilians. Shit, America has been doing it for centuries.

I'm not justifying Bin Laden, I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy. Neither side is justified.

 

[Malak]

He also seems to forget that it was a war started by Germany, Italy, and Japan.

I didn't forget anything. Wars start from other wars. Another war laid the groundwork for that war. WW2 laid the groundwork for other wars. It is a neverending cycle, peace is never the result. Peace comes from CEASING war, not from war itself.

 

[tooriski]

You gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.

is that what you tell the 9/11 families as well ? that they were just broken eggs in a omelette that AQ was trying to make ?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

is that what you tell the 9/11 families as well ? that they were just broken eggs in a omelette that AQ was trying to make ?

Those were innocent civilians. OBL was a homicidal maniac and the most prolific international terrorist of the past century. If you can't see the difference you're so slow-witted that I'm surprised you can remember how to turn your computer on.

 

[Malak]

Those were innocent civilians. OBL was a homicidal maniac and the most prolific international terrorist of the past century. If you can't see the difference you're so slow-witted that I'm surprised you can remember how to turn your computer on.

You continue to ignore the countless innocent civilians America has killed in the last 300 years... The problem with America is that it always ignores the evil it commits.

 

[tooriski]

Those were innocent civilians. OBL was a homicidal maniac and the most prolific international terrorist of the past century. If you can't see the difference you're so slow-witted that I'm surprised you can remember how to turn your computer on.

so anyone living in america is a civilian, but innocent people across the world are what ? animals.........and I wasn't talkign about osama, I'm glad our nation finally got the asshole. If your brain can remember to communicate with your eyes, you would see that I was talking about the "eggs" that were broken to make an omelette. My 2 year old can read and understand better than you. good night.

 

[zinfamous]

Declaring war however possible is not ok for him, but is ok for the rest of the world? We can bomb their neighborhood but they can't bomb ours?



Really? Never heard of a single war that didn't involve killing mass amounts of civilians. Shit, America has been doing it for centuries.

I'm not justifying Bin Laden, I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy. Neither side is justified.

the purpose of our actions is to attack military targets. It is unfortunate, of course, but sometimes civilians are caught in the fray. Generally, we do not react unless acted-upon, or if called in aid and it is in our best interest to do so. This is the idea, anyway, but it doesn't always happen so.

The response of jihadists, when our actions go astray as they will certainly do, is to attack civilians as if they are military targets. This is not acceptable.

Now, to think of a guy like bin Laden as someone in the service of Islam or of his people is foolish. He is a wealthy plutocrat with great power and influence who has only ever wanted more power. he exploits the weak to further his ends, to increase his power and build his own nation out of the same poverty, exploitation, and destruction of rights that he claims are the acting force of the US. To this end tend to think that offering him the burial rights of a muslim is unnecessary, as he was not a muslim. it is a respect that he would not have shown other muslims, frankly, as he murdered them as equally as he murdered jews and christians.

there is, in every sense of the word, a moral imperative to take the life of an individual such as this. to offer him what minor respect we offered him at his death is, in many ways, the greatest form of justice that I am sure few other nations would have offered him.

Hell--no other nation would even take his body.


again--the wars we start are against aggressors, first and foremost. Iraq is the major exception, as it is certainly an unjust, and I firmly believe--an illegal action. bin Laden began a war against our nation by attacking our civilians.

I really don't understand how you can't accept that while one nation attacks military targets with the care to avoid civilian casualties, while another executes actions of war by attacking civilians almost exclusively. if you can not distinguish between these two very different realities, then you are one lost individual.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Just read the title and nothing else, but I did want to say this:
Shut the fuck up Hal.