War On Easter!

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SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
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Politically Correct mandating individuals like YOU are the problem-insisting that no one else has the right to choose what they will celebrate a day for. Ever heard of free speech? If Google decides to celebrate Cesar Chavez yesterday it is not your business or your right to impose your opinion or beliefs upon them. And to declare their decision a "war" upon your religious beliefs is absurd.

But like so many righties you are so self-centered that you will never understand that rights are for all, not just for you and your fellow travelers.

Well, we HAVE to be politically correct, you know? It WAS Easter yesterday....:whiste:

Incorruptible is retarded. He's pretty much arguing against himself at this point. Calling people Progressive's and Liberals saying that we are trying to change how people think....yet, he wants Google to acknowledge Christian holidays and traditions because that's what they "should" be doing.


Sounds to me like contradicting himself.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Its Easter! Why would they think that its appropriate to have someone like chavez instead of something that is celebrated by millions around the world.

You think they just chose chavez or was it due to some kind of PC/anti-Christian bias. What reason would chavez be put on instead of Easter?

Why do YOU think its appropriate to steal shit and then continually rub the fact that yall stole it in everyones faces?

2nd question: Ok, so the incorrubptible criteria for a holiday that should be at the very least recognized by the United States government, the President, and other entities is simply that its celebrated by millions around the world?
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
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There is something incredibly ironic about this.



Okay I guess I'll have to explain this to Incorruptible. OP... you should be happy, they are doing Christians a favor by removing the sanctity of "Easter" from the PAGAN practice of searching for eggs.
 
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Thanks for the laugh...first one of the day! Did you not understand my post directed at Rob M.?

Maybe im not following your train of thought then. All it sounds like you are doing is exactly what i said. Picking one passage and dismissing others that contradict it.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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Why do YOU think its appropriate to steal shit and then continually rub the fact that yall stole it in everyones faces?

2nd question: Ok, so the incorrubptible criteria for a holiday that should be at the very least recognized by the United States government, the President, and other entities is simply that its celebrated by millions around the world?

Ohh I see what you're doing there... :thumbsup::awe:
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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the fundamental operating principal of today's liberals is to be offended at every opportunity.

i never figured you for a liberal, but every one of your posts is a display of something that offends you.

go figure.
 
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Maybe im not following your train of thought then. All it sounds like you are doing is exactly what i said. Picking one passage and dismissing others that contradict it.
What contradiction are you talking about? There were 2 very early oral traditions recorded regarding this particular passage (John 8:1 - 8:11) that were very similar and came from 2 independent sources.

Contrary to Rob M's assertion, the passage was not written after Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus (4th century) and the link I provided proved this. Both Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus were also notorious among scholars for their omissions.

Bottom line, there's very good evidence that John 8:1-11 is legitimate scripture.
 
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Maybe im not following your train of thought then. All it sounds like you are doing is exactly what i said. Picking one passage and dismissing others that contradict it.
I reread your post today and I think I now know what you're trying to say. Essentially it appears that you're saying Christians are picking and choosing which parts of the bible they what to believe in (e.g. why aren't Christians stoning people for their transgressions under Mosiac Law known as the "Old Covenant"?)

Here's a link that explains this the difference in covenants. Please let me know if you have any questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_old_covenant

Christian views on the old covenant

Christian views of the Old Covenant are central to Christian theology, ethics, and practice. The term "Old Covenant", also referred to as the Mosaic Covenant, Mosaic Law, Divine Law, Biblical Law, God's Law, or the Books of Moses, refers to the statements or principles of religious law and religious ethics codified in the "first five books" or Pentateuch of the Old Testament. Views of the Old Covenant are expressed in the New Testament, such as Jesus' antitheses of the law, the circumcision controversy in Early Christianity, and the Incident at Antioch and position of Paul the Apostle and Judaism. Many traditional Christians have the view that only parts are applicable, many Protestants have the view that none is applicable, dual-covenant theologians have the view that only Noahide Laws apply to Gentiles, and a minority have the view that all are still applicable to believers in Jesus and the New Covenant.

In Judaism, the "first five books" are referred to as the Torah, in Hebrew: תּוֹרָה‎,[2] and generally translated as "the Law" in English translations of the Bible. Rabbinic Judaism[3] asserts that the Laws of the Jewish Bible were presented to the Jewish people and converts to Judaism (which includes the biblical proselytes) and do not apply to Gentiles, including Christians, with the notable exception of the Seven Laws of Noah which apply to all people. Rabbi Emden of the 18th century was of the opinion that Jesus' original objective, and especially Paul's, was only to convert Gentiles to Noahide Law while allowing Jews to follow full Mosaic Law.

Although Christianity affirms that the Pentateuch is part of Scripture that is inspired of God, Christian tradition, in this case similar to Jewish tradition, denies that all of the Old Covenant still applies directly to Christians, but different arguments are used to reach that conclusion and there are differences of opinion within Christianity as to which parts, if any, still apply. The predominant Christian view is that Jesus mediates a New Covenant relationship between God and his followers, according to the New Testament, which ended or set aside some or all of the Old Covenant.[4] Christianity, almost without exception, teaches that this New Covenant is the instrument through which God offers mercy and atonement to mankind. However, there are differences of opinion as to how the New Covenant affects the validity of the Old Covenant, how many Old Covenant laws such as the Ten Commandments are continued or renewed in the New Covenant, and related issues. The differences are mainly as a result of attempts to harmonize biblical statements to the effect that the Old Covenant and its law is "perpetual"[5] or "everlasting"[6] or "lasting"[7] with biblical statements to the effect that it does not apply anymore (in the current dispensation) or at least does not fully apply.[8] The topic of Paul and the Old Covenant is still frequently debated among New Testament scholars leading to many views.
 
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I reread your post today and I think I now know what you're trying to say. Essentially it appears that you're saying Christians are picking and choosing which parts of the bible they what to believe in (e.g. why aren't Christians stoning people for their transgressions under Mosiac Law known as the "Old Covenant"?)

Here's a link that explains this the difference in covenants. Please let me know if you have any questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_old_covenant

Christian views on the old covenant

Christian views of the Old Covenant are central to Christian theology, ethics, and practice. The term "Old Covenant", also referred to as the Mosaic Covenant, Mosaic Law, Divine Law, Biblical Law, God's Law, or the Books of Moses, refers to the statements or principles of religious law and religious ethics codified in the "first five books" or Pentateuch of the Old Testament. Views of the Old Covenant are expressed in the New Testament, such as Jesus' antitheses of the law, the circumcision controversy in Early Christianity, and the Incident at Antioch and position of Paul the Apostle and Judaism. Many traditional Christians have the view that only parts are applicable, many Protestants have the view that none is applicable, dual-covenant theologians have the view that only Noahide Laws apply to Gentiles, and a minority have the view that all are still applicable to believers in Jesus and the New Covenant.

In Judaism, the "first five books" are referred to as the Torah, in Hebrew: תּוֹרָה‎,[2] and generally translated as "the Law" in English translations of the Bible. Rabbinic Judaism[3] asserts that the Laws of the Jewish Bible were presented to the Jewish people and converts to Judaism (which includes the biblical proselytes) and do not apply to Gentiles, including Christians, with the notable exception of the Seven Laws of Noah which apply to all people. Rabbi Emden of the 18th century was of the opinion that Jesus' original objective, and especially Paul's, was only to convert Gentiles to Noahide Law while allowing Jews to follow full Mosaic Law.

Although Christianity affirms that the Pentateuch is part of Scripture that is inspired of God, Christian tradition, in this case similar to Jewish tradition, denies that all of the Old Covenant still applies directly to Christians, but different arguments are used to reach that conclusion and there are differences of opinion within Christianity as to which parts, if any, still apply. The predominant Christian view is that Jesus mediates a New Covenant relationship between God and his followers, according to the New Testament, which ended or set aside some or all of the Old Covenant.[4] Christianity, almost without exception, teaches that this New Covenant is the instrument through which God offers mercy and atonement to mankind. However, there are differences of opinion as to how the New Covenant affects the validity of the Old Covenant, how many Old Covenant laws such as the Ten Commandments are continued or renewed in the New Covenant, and related issues. The differences are mainly as a result of attempts to harmonize biblical statements to the effect that the Old Covenant and its law is "perpetual"[5] or "everlasting"[6] or "lasting"[7] with biblical statements to the effect that it does not apply anymore (in the current dispensation) or at least does not fully apply.[8] The topic of Paul and the Old Covenant is still frequently debated among New Testament scholars leading to many views.

Thanks for the link. Yeah that is what i was trying to get at about picking and choosing. But even now, the link while informative, is still picking and choosing. It doesnt appear there is a universal acknowledgement amont Christians which books/parts etc to follow and which parts may or may not supersede older parts.

The fact there are even multiple versions of the bible is rather fishy to a non-believer. Old Testament made God look to mean and vengeful, so write a new one where he is kinder in order to get more followers? Obviously i dont have all the answers/truths on this, nor does anyone. But its always an interesting topic for sure.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
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I reread your post today and I think I now know what you're trying to say. Essentially it appears that you're saying Christians are picking and choosing which parts of the bible they what to believe in (e.g. why aren't Christians stoning people for their transgressions under Mosiac Law known as the "Old Covenant"?)

Here's a link that explains this the difference in covenants. Please let me know if you have any questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_old_covenant

Christian views on the old covenant

Christian views of the Old Covenant are central to Christian theology, ethics, and practice. The term "Old Covenant", also referred to as the Mosaic Covenant, Mosaic Law, Divine Law, Biblical Law, God's Law, or the Books of Moses, refers to the statements or principles of religious law and religious ethics codified in the "first five books" or Pentateuch of the Old Testament. Views of the Old Covenant are expressed in the New Testament, such as Jesus' antitheses of the law, the circumcision controversy in Early Christianity, and the Incident at Antioch and position of Paul the Apostle and Judaism. Many traditional Christians have the view that only parts are applicable, many Protestants have the view that none is applicable, dual-covenant theologians have the view that only Noahide Laws apply to Gentiles, and a minority have the view that all are still applicable to believers in Jesus and the New Covenant.

In Judaism, the "first five books" are referred to as the Torah, in Hebrew: תּוֹרָה‎,[2] and generally translated as "the Law" in English translations of the Bible. Rabbinic Judaism[3] asserts that the Laws of the Jewish Bible were presented to the Jewish people and converts to Judaism (which includes the biblical proselytes) and do not apply to Gentiles, including Christians, with the notable exception of the Seven Laws of Noah which apply to all people. Rabbi Emden of the 18th century was of the opinion that Jesus' original objective, and especially Paul's, was only to convert Gentiles to Noahide Law while allowing Jews to follow full Mosaic Law.

Although Christianity affirms that the Pentateuch is part of Scripture that is inspired of God, Christian tradition, in this case similar to Jewish tradition, denies that all of the Old Covenant still applies directly to Christians, but different arguments are used to reach that conclusion and there are differences of opinion within Christianity as to which parts, if any, still apply. The predominant Christian view is that Jesus mediates a New Covenant relationship between God and his followers, according to the New Testament, which ended or set aside some or all of the Old Covenant.[4] Christianity, almost without exception, teaches that this New Covenant is the instrument through which God offers mercy and atonement to mankind. However, there are differences of opinion as to how the New Covenant affects the validity of the Old Covenant, how many Old Covenant laws such as the Ten Commandments are continued or renewed in the New Covenant, and related issues. The differences are mainly as a result of attempts to harmonize biblical statements to the effect that the Old Covenant and its law is "perpetual"[5] or "everlasting"[6] or "lasting"[7] with biblical statements to the effect that it does not apply anymore (in the current dispensation) or at least does not fully apply.[8] The topic of Paul and the Old Covenant is still frequently debated among New Testament scholars leading to many views.

I have always understood this as Jesus instituting a new convenant wiith his followers, making the Mosaic Law invalid... hence, we are not under those upward of 600 laws God instituted with Moses.

When Jesue died faithful to the Law Covenant, he fulfilled that "contract" and started a new one.

I don't know if you agree with this or not, but this is just how I have understood it. So no.. stoning people hasn't been required for over 2000 years... I don't see how people even use this as an argument. This just shows that they have very little, if any, understanding of it.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I have always understood this as Jesus instituting a new convenant wiith his followers, making the Mosaic Law invalid... hence, we are not under those upward of 600 laws God instituted with Moses.

When Jesue died faithful to the Law Covenant, he fulfilled that "contract" and started a new one.

I don't know if you agree with this or not, but this is just how I have understood it. So no.. stoning people hasn't been required for over 2000 years... I don't see how people even use this as an argument. This just shows that they have very little, if any, understanding of it.
Agree. This is fundamental to Christianity and the New Testament is quite clear on this point.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

Galatians 3:23–25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace.
 
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Thanks for the link. Yeah that is what i was trying to get at about picking and choosing. But even now, the link while informative, is still picking and choosing. It doesnt appear there is a universal acknowledgement amont Christians which books/parts etc to follow and which parts may or may not supersede older parts.

The fact there are even multiple versions of the bible is rather fishy to a non-believer. Old Testament made God look to mean and vengeful, so write a new one where he is kinder in order to get more followers? Obviously i dont have all the answers/truths on this, nor does anyone. But its always an interesting topic for sure.
I bolded the part that expresses the predominant Christian view regarding the New Covenant which is universally acknowledged among Christians. I'm not sure what you're refering to when you say "It doesnt appear there is a universal acknowledgement amont Christians which books/parts etc to follow and which parts may or may not supersede older parts." Specific examples here will help me understand what you're trying to say.

There are multiple translations of the bible...and yes, I would agree that a few are "fishy". However, if one digs into this, it becomes plain to see the differentiation between the "fishy" ones and the major translations which are true to the original language.

"Old Testament made God look to mean and vengeful, so write a new one where he is kinder in order to get more followers?" The Old Testament was directed at the nation of Israel. The New Testament is directed at Gentiles. Christ fulfills all the Old Testament prophecies.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
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Thanks for the link. Yeah that is what i was trying to get at about picking and choosing. But even now, the link while informative, is still picking and choosing. It doesnt appear there is a universal acknowledgement amont Christians which books/parts etc to follow and which parts may or may not supersede older parts.

The fact there are even multiple versions of the bible is rather fishy to a non-believer. Old Testament made God look to mean and vengeful, so write a new one where he is kinder in order to get more followers? Obviously i dont have all the answers/truths on this, nor does anyone. But its always an interesting topic for sure.

Not to be mean, but this is just an ignorant remark and really shows the depth of your understanding.

No one's trying to "fool" people into becoming a believer in a loving God -- as Doc said, the Old T was directed to the nation of Israel, Christ does indeed meet the Old T prophecies about him.

It opens up hope to non-Jews (people like Doc and myself who aren't Jewish) and fulfills the Abarahamic promise of his seed being "as numerous as the stars".

Even if you don't know, the question shows your train of thinking...
 
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Not to be mean, but this is just an ignorant remark and really shows the depth of your understanding.

No one's trying to "fool" people into becoming a believer in a loving God -- as Doc said, the Old T was directed to the nation of Israel, Christ does indeed meet the Old T prophecies about him.

It opens up hope to non-Jews (people like Doc and myself who aren't Jewish) and fulfills the Abarahamic promise of his seed being "as numerous as the stars".

Even if you don't know, the question shows your train of thinking...
I know you're not trying to be mean...but I think it's unfair for you to criticize him when he's being honest about what he perceives to be true.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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I bolded the part that expresses the predominant Christian view regarding the New Covenant which is universally acknowledged among Christians. I'm not sure what you're refering to when you say "It doesnt appear there is a universal acknowledgement amont Christians which books/parts etc to follow and which parts may or may not supersede older parts." Specific examples here will help me understand what you're trying to say.

There are multiple translations of the bible...and yes, I would agree that a few are "fishy". However, if one digs into this, it becomes plain to see the differentiation between the "fishy" ones and the major translations which are true to the original language.

"Old Testament made God look to mean and vengeful, so write a new one where he is kinder in order to get more followers?" The Old Testament was directed at the nation of Israel. The New Testament is directed at Gentiles. Christ fulfills all the Old Testament prophecies.

Predominant doesnt mean universal. Just means most people believe it in that context. And you same quote right below your bolded says this:

"However, there are differences of opinion as to how the New Covenant affects the validity of the Old Covenant, how many Old Covenant laws such as the Ten Commandments are continued or renewed in the New Covenant, and related issues. The differences are mainly as a result of attempts to harmonize biblical statements to the effect that the Old Covenant and its law is "perpetual"[5] or "everlasting"[6] or "lasting"[7] with biblical statements to the effect that it does not apply anymore (in the current dispensation) or at least does not fully apply.[8] The topic of Paul and the Old Covenant is still frequently debated among New Testament scholars leading to many views."

I guess my point is Christans are picking and choosing how to view/interpets what they want with regards to the many versions/revisions on the various bibles. And its also easy to write a book where Jesus fullfills every prophecy that was from an earlier book you already had access to. Thus going back to it being "fishy".

But ill back out now. Its your faith and as long as you arent trying to change laws to impose it on me im not too worried what you want to believe or have faith in.

I just think its an interesting topic. And no im not a Christian scholar so i am constantly learning more everyday about religion. But i still dont buy into any of it.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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No one's trying to "fool" people into becoming a believer in a loving God -- as Doc said, the Old T was directed to the nation of Israel, Christ does indeed meet the Old T prophecies about him.

No, not at all. The Mesiah is to come riding in on a horse and brandishing a sword--to lead the sons of Israel into glorious battle, smite their enemies, etc. That, is the prophecy.

Jesus came riding in on a donkey and brandishing a laurel branch. Please, do not ignore the scribes and philosophers and rabbis that find great fault with Christ's claim of Messiah-hood.

If he did meet the prophecies, as you say, then there would be no Christians.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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No, not at all. The Mesiah is to come riding in on a horse and brandishing a sword--to lead the sons of Israel into glorious battle, smite their enemies, etc. That, is the prophecy.

Jesus came riding in on a donkey and brandishing a laurel branch. Please, do not ignore the scribes and philosophers and rabbis that find great fault with Christ's claim of Messiah-hood.

If he did meet the prophecies, as you say, then there would be no Christians.
What are you talking about? This?

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

(wriiten 6th century BC)