Want to play around with a Mac...

[frazzled]

The current iBooks are a superb deal (especially with the student discount) ...and built like tanks. Just be prepared, they seem to be a common first Mac. Empahsis on "first", a very amusing thread over on one of the DSLreports forums about how several folks discovered that iBooks are like potato chips (can't eat just one).

I bought my daughter an iBook for high school and she adores it ... she already has a PC desktop, and has no problem going back and forth. Caught her playing Neverwinter Nights with a friend (INSTEAD of her homework :| ) over the internet on the iBook last weekend.

Oh, and wait a week before buying it.... rumors are flying that the iBooks are about to get a speed bump and possibly a price drop in the next few days.

Enjoy,

fraz

 

[way]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: way
Hey goku,

Check these two articles out:

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36964.html

How would you respond to his assertions and provided evidence that Mac hardware is less expensive and better performing than PC hardware?

Personally, I'd respond with "I can personally build my own computer from the parts I choose. Can you?"

He's foolishly assuming that Dell Knows Best when it comes to price/performance - and as the posts in Hot Deals show, Dell is best at knowing how to dish out dirt-cheap machines that are used as the barebones for upgrades.

But to get back on topic: iBook with a student discount.

- M4H

I'd respond to that by saying that the average person doesn't know how to build his own computer from the parts he chooses nor does he wish to. That's why it's copacetic to compare Apple to Dell---they are both trying to sell the experience that what you get is fully featured and works right out of the box. And the author of the articles probably picked Dell because they are the leading company in PC sales, both in volume and price, and so the most representative of the PC industry.

Plus, would you like to build your own computer if you had to deploy a hundred of them for an office? Or over 1000 for a supercomputer cluster?

M4H, I'm not a Mac fanboy, as I run a variety of OSes on a variety of platforms (though my Apple PowerBook is now my main machine). I just get pissed off when I see dumbasses provide stupid assertions (e.g. the government is wasteful so of course they'd buy Macs or "thin lizzy has no pubes") to "prove" that Macs suck.

To the OP, I'd recommend getting a 12" PowerBook. It's more futureproof because it includes a video card that is compatable with Core Image, which is a technology that will come in OS X 10.4 "Tiger". PowerBooks also come with Airport Extreme built-in standard and a larger hard drive.

There's also rumors of updated iBooks coming out soon: http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0410briefly.html

You might want to hold off on your decision and purchase until that gets announced---perhaps then, the iBook might be a better buy than the current PowerBook.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: way
I'd respond to that by saying that the average person doesn't know how to build his own computer from the parts he chooses nor does he wish to. That's why it's copacetic to compare Apple to Dell---they are both trying to sell the experience that what you get is fully featured and works right out of the box. And the author of the articles probably picked Dell because they are the leading company in PC sales, both in volume and price, and so the most representative of the PC industry.

I'd respond to that response by saying that anyone who bases their benchmarking suite on Linux should give the PC world a fair shake by letting them choose their own hardware and platform.

Plus, would you like to build your own computer if you had to deploy a hundred of them for an office? Or over 1000 for a supercomputer cluster?

I'd contract out to an big-name Opteron-based builder. Gives some college student a job, and me more free time. Plus another link in the Blame Chain if something blows up.

M4H, I'm not a Mac fanboy, as I run a variety of OSes on a variety of platforms (though my Apple PowerBook is now my main machine). I just get pissed off when I see dumbasses provide stupid assertions (e.g. the government is wasteful so of course they'd buy Macs or "thin lizzy has no pubes") to "prove" that Macs suck.

I concur. I'm not a fanboy on either side - right now, I'm alternating my nefs between XP and X.3 I prefer the PC side of things for a few reasons - cost-effectiveness and games being the two forefronts.

To the OP, I'd recommend getting a 12" PowerBook. It's more futureproof because it includes a video card that is compatable with Core Image, which is a technology that will come in OS X 10.4 "Tiger". PowerBooks also come with Airport Extreme built-in standard and a larger hard drive.

There's also rumors of updated iBooks coming out soon: http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0410briefly.html

You might want to hold off on your decision and purchase until that gets announced---perhaps then, the iBook might be a better buy than the current PowerBook.

It all depends on how much you're willing to spend, really. I don't know about the fine details such as the "Core Image" stuff, so the OP is much better off listening to a true Macophile than a casual user like myself.

- M4H

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Hey guys

I would like to comment on the G5 Powerbook/iBook. I honestly dont think this is going to happen anytime soon. The reason is, after seeing the huge heatsinks on the Powermac G5, I dont think Apple would be able to put a G5 in the Powerbook or iBook because how much heat the G5 produces. Now after Apple came out with the G5 2.5GHz, they had to use Liquid Cooling to keep those G5 processors cool.

This is just what I think though. I could be wrong. It would be awesome to see a G5 processor in the Apple Laptops.
To get a good look of what the G5 heatsinks look like, Click Here.

Go through all the pics. Eventually you will get to see a very good look at the G5 heatsinks.

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
Hey guys

I would like to comment on the G5 Powerbook/iBook. I honestly dont think this is going to happen anytime soon. The reason is, after seeing the huge heatsinks on the Powermac G5, I dont think Apple would be able to put a G5 in the Powerbook or iBook because how much heat the G5 produces. Now after Apple came out with the G5 2.5GHz, they had to use Liquid Cooling to keep those G5 processors cool.

This is just what I think though. I could be wrong. It would be awesome to see a G5 processor in the Apple Laptops.
To get a good look of what the G5 heatsinks look like, Click Here.

Go through all the pics. Eventually you will get to see a very good look at the G5 heatsinks.

You are correct IMO. In this month's issue of MacAddict Apple was quoted as having a very difficult time getting the G5 ready for the books. I think they are a year + out. Bottom line they aren't coming anytime soon.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Hi,

I very much doubt the G5 will be in Apples line of laptops anytime soon. What I would like to see though is the Dual Core G4. Motorola is making a Dual Core G4, and I have read that the Dual Core G4 is likely to hit the the Powerbook.

I believe you might find this article very interesting.

 

[frazzled]

I have heard the same rumblings about the possibility of Dual-core G4s in the PB series.

This would be a great idea, the dual G4s I have used have been very capable machines.

fraz

 

[radiocore]

new ibook for $999

can't really go wrong with this.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: radiocore
new ibook for $999

can't really go wrong with this.

Yep, looks like way was correct. Still doesn't support the "Core Image" stuff, but the uniproc G5 bears a second look.

- M4H

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: radiocore
new ibook for $999

can't really go wrong with this.

Great price drop. This puts the model I was looking at from $1150 to $949 w/ the ed discount.

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: radiocore
new ibook for $999

can't really go wrong with this.

:thumbsup:

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Wow. Only $999. Thats a good deal. After I purchase my friends G4, that iBook is probably what I am going to get. That is pretty cheap for that G5 single processor too. $1499. I may consider looking into that.

Yea, the video card still doesnt support Core Image, but Core Image does scale down to an appropriate level for older graphics cards, but the older graphics card wont take full advantage of Core Image. My eMac wont, because I have a Radeon 7500. That iBook has a better graphics card than my eMac.

 

[TonyZ]

Whats up guys...

Just thought I'd chime in with all the hatin and all with an example of Mac's being used in a meduim/large company. We have ~650 employees at this location and Macs out number PC's here by atleast 3:1. We also have several X-Serve's and an X-Raid. We have custom workflow automation software that runs on Mac's only thats been ongoingly developed since 1995. We were bought by a larger company a few years ago and the CIO was so impressed with the technology that we have been deploying it at other locations.

That said, I have never really liked Macs mostly due to the pre OSX os's. That has changed though with OSX, its unix with a pretty UI. I recently bought a used 17" iMac G4 off ebay mainly for iMovie and iDVD which are awesome programs compared to all the clunky/expensive programs that I use on my PC to accomplish the same tasks. I wont be getting rid of my pc though (3.525 Ghz P4/6800GT) as I will always need it for games.

-Tony

 

[way]

Originally posted by: TonyZ
Whats up guys...

Just thought I'd chime in with all the hatin and all with an example of Mac's being used in a meduim/large company. We have ~650 employees at this location and Macs out number PC's here by atleast 3:1. We also have several X-Serve's and an X-Raid. We have custom workflow automation software that runs on Mac's only thats been ongoingly developed since 1995. We were bought by a larger company a few years ago and the CIO was so impressed with the technology that we have been deploying it at other locations.

That said, I have never really liked Macs mostly due to the pre OSX os's. That has changed though with OSX, its unix with a pretty UI. I recently bought a used 17" iMac G4 off ebay mainly for iMovie and iDVD which are awesome programs compared to all the clunky/expensive programs that I use on my PC to accomplish the same tasks. I wont be getting rid of my pc though (3.525 Ghz P4/6800GT) as I will always need it for games.

-Tony

That's very cool, Tony! If goku accuses your company's CIO of being a wasteful idiot who lacks pubic hair, please ignore him.

OP, the base level iBook is $100 cheaper and comes with Airport Extreme now (it was previously a build option costing more $) and Apple won't be releasing new PowerBooks anytime soon (definitely not before the year's over - http://www.macworld.com/news/2...10/19/ibook/index.php). So if you're looking for a portable right now, I highly recommend the base level 12" iBook along with as much add-on RAM you can afford and perhaps a nice external Firewire hard drive or DVD burner. I don't think the 14" is worth the extra money (and it's not as portable) because the display resolution is the same as the 12".

 

[frazzled]

That said, I have never really liked Macs mostly due to the pre OSX os's. That has changed though with OSX

That is exactly what changed my mind about the Mac as well.

If goku accuses your company's CIO of being a wasteful idiot who lacks pubic hair, please ignore him.

I needed that good laugh, that semi-psychotic rant was one of the most bizarre things I have read in my nearly 5 years on Anandtech. :shocked:

I agree with way, the current 12" iBook (especially with the built-in Airport and lower price) is a magnificent deal.

JT

 

[imported_Lucifer]

If goku accuses your company's CIO of being a wasteful idiot who lacks pubic hair, please ignore him.

LOL!!:laugh:

I really want that 12'' iBook though. But I may cough out the extra dough for the 14'', but I stilll havent made up my mind.

 

[febuld]

I've read a few posts on the uses of macs, and, although I'm not sure if the questions are satisfied with the replies, I have something to add. I remember reading an article comparing Intel Prescott processors to Apple's processors...(think it was in one of those pipelining articles) Well, I remember reading somewhere that the two processors are very different in architecture, thus resulting in different uses and different software. The best analogy I can think of is one with water pipes.



Imagine that you are trying to deliver a flow of water from point A to point B. You have two types of piping to use: a small, narrow one, or a large, wide one. If you're only transferring a small stream of water, then you would opt for the smaller pipe. If you had used the wide pipe, there wouldn't be enough pressure inside the pipe to force the water through.
But what if you had to move a lot of water simultaneously? The wider pipe would be the better choice, because now you have enough water going through the pipe at the same time to create pressure and force the water along. Now, there would be even more pressure and faster movement of water if you used the narrower pipe for this situation, but you there would be less water moving at the same time, thus a slower overall transfer of the water.



I guess some of you folks can compare these situation to bandwith, although the two are a bit different...But, anyways, the first situation with the narrow pipe refers to the Intel Prescott, while the latter refers to the Apple G5. Now, I know this may not have been totally accurate, but they are good enough for me to make my point. Streaming music and other media doesn't require too much information to be processed simultaneously, but they have to be done quickly for better performance. That is why Intel processors are good with media (plus the pipelining issue, but I won't get into that right now). Rendering video, video editing, and the such require processors to compute a lot of data simultaneously, with multiple video and audio layers. That is why Apples flourish in video editing. Although each step may be computed slower on an Intel processor, Apple processors can utilize their "broadness" to have better overall performance.

I'm not too sure about AMD's K8 architecture, but I'm sure it's not too different from the Prescotts as Prescotts are different from Apple processors.

A. Shah

 

[dakels]

sorry for not reading the thread but my personal 2 cents real quick:

I have a new model powerbook 15" (you can see in my sig)
Best laptop by far I have ever owned or used (which includes an alienware, T40, T41, HP's, Compaqs, and dells).

Its not pure power or features that make it win me over. Its the attention to all the details. The shape, size, weight, and the little things made a huge difference.
Little things I like:
-super quiet and illuminated keyboard
-lightweight and slim
-case is al alum and strong, rounded corners are nice too and not sharp or uncomfortable.
-built in speakers, although still crappy are better then any others I have used.
-autodetecting light sensitive screen brightness (light sensor in speaker)
-easy access ports (FW400 and 800 and mini, USB2, DVI, Mic, Phones, PC slot, etc)
-sturdy LCD mount which is very hard to damage
-easy access to ram, and airport card

(also want to add) the trackpad on the powerbooks are MUCH better then the ibooks. I havent tried the new (just released) ibook's trackpad though. The older trackpads sucked. After some usage they became harder to glide like trying to run you rfinger over tupperware, instead of aluminum which is smooth and not tacky.

Thats just the little things. The core is fast, ram is fast, but nothing compared to many PC options though.
There is only one big negative, which is common among laptops. 4200rpm drive (upgradeable to 5400 via apple). That slow HD is crippling. I resolves that fairly easy though by swapping it with a 60gb 7200rpm. The cost is also prohibitive but not bad considering other premium laptops.

I run both mac and PC and I love the mac OS so much more. WinXP has made huge strides and I run a XP box, Linux, and Mac. 90% of my day to day is on my powerbook. My PC laptop stays home, as does my tower.

In my company we are given the option of a IBM T41 or Pbook. I have seen over 20 people switch to a powerbook from the T41. I have never seen anyone switch to a T41 from powerbook.

I tried the new ibooks and they are very decent. The new line of 14" ibooks are a great deal right now. Hopeful the pbooks will get a G5 upgrade in spring to make them a better deal.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

I've always wanted a Powerbook, but I cant afford one. I have my eyes set on the 14'' iBook though. I heard they are great laptops. I too, cant wait to see either the G5 or the Dual Core G4 in the Powerbook.

 

[Burbot]

I'm not too sure about AMD's K8 architecture, but I'm sure it's not too different from the Prescotts as Prescotts are different from Apple processors.
Someone should probably try reading the fine microprocessor architecture manuals. While K8 has a lot of traits that both G5 and Prescott lack (glueless SMP, on-chip memory controller, HT), it has a lot more common with G5 (pipeline size, clock frequency ranges, similar wide and slow approach, having IBM involved ) then with Prescott (common external instruction set - and that's it). And video rendering and editing are the areas where Prescott approach actually fits. I'd suggest you to devote more time to research.

 

[dakels]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
I've always wanted a Powerbook, but I cant afford one. I have my eyes set on the 14'' iBook though. I heard they are great laptops. I too, cant wait to see either the G5 or the Dual Core G4 in the Powerbook.

I hope there is a G5 chip added to the next line. Apple just released a single proc G5 tower again. Interesting. Also the new G5 models are liquid cooled in a radiator style. I dont know how that could apply to a powerbook, especially without a fan, but I hope they work something out. The current tower design cooling works off the physics of heat rising to circulate the coolant... laptops dont really get any vertical space. I would assume they may have to add a fan too which is kinda sad. One thing I really enjoy about the powerbook is that it is fanless and silent (there is a internal fan which will kick on though if it reaches extreme temps but it rarely goes on). All PC laptops I have used have multiple fans which are audible. Nothing too dramatic though.