Walmart is a great example of Lemon Socialism.

[Bowfinger]

And if someone is incapable of even the most basic math required to work at Chrysler how do you expect them to escape poverty?

Take your straw man duhversions and shut up. You are a pointless moron who adds no value to any thread you infest. The time you waste here would be much better spent educating yourself. I suggest you start with an American History book, and maybe a basic Economics primer.

 

[nehalem256]

Take your straw man duhversions and shut up. You are a pointless moron who adds no value to any thread you infest. The time you waste here would be much better spent educating yourself. I suggest you start with an American History book, and maybe a basic Economics primer.

There is no diversion.

If a person is incapable of even basic work how do you expect them not to live in poverty?

 

[Bowfinger]

There is no diversion.

If a person is incapable of even basic work how do you expect them not to live in poverty?

I wasn't talking about people incapable of basic work. THAT is your duhversion. Now go play.

 

[Throckmorton]

who said only college? not everyone is for college.

how about learning a trade? there is no shame in construction, plumbing, electrician etc.

not everyone is or should go to college. But to expect to be able to support a family on a unskilled cashier job? no.

Yes, if everybody learns a trade they will all get good jobs, and no one will have to work at Wal Mart.


Are you seriously this stupid?

 

[CitizenKain]

So she is stupid both regard to her personal and career life. Thank God we have Democrats around to protect her right to make choices about her body and life!

Yea, if only there was a "man" around like you slap her around a bit, keep her in line. So how often did you dad slap your mom around?

 

[Genx87]

We certainly could if we imposed proportionate tariffs on goods and services from those countries that don't match our first-world standards. Of course that can lead to other issues, but I'm beginning to think it's the only way the U.S. might possibly escape from this continuing race to the bottom. If we continue on the current path, we're going to be little more than another third-world country with a baron class, a relatively small white collar middle class, and a huge lower class living in permanent poverty, just like their peers in Asia.

Putting a wall up will only protect us for so long. Eventually reality will bite us in the ass. The question I ask is why do we continue to believe overpaying for a service is a long term viable plan?

 

[nehalem256]

Yea, if only there was a "man" around like you slap her around a bit, keep her in line. So how often did you dad slap your mom around?

Never, because my mom isn't a moron.

Unfortunately a lot of people (of both genders) are.

 

[Bowfinger]

Putting a wall up will only protect us for so long. Eventually reality will bite us in the ass. The question I ask is why do we continue to believe overpaying for a service is a long term viable plan?

Overpaying according to whom? "Overpaying" is not some immutable law of physics. It is a relative term, heavily influenced by our priorities and expectations as a society. That there are many third-world countries where the value of labor is a dollar per day, there is absolutely no reason America has to embrace that value. We spent many decades as the most prosperous country on Earth while simultaneously ensuring a healthy, balanced wealth distribution that gave most Americans a nice middle class lifestyle. There is no inherent reason that balance has to shift except for the greed of the very rich and the gullibility of their faithful apologists.

 

[waggy]

Yes, if everybody learns a trade they will all get good jobs, and no one will have to work at Wal Mart.


Are you seriously this stupid?

are you that stupid think that is what i said?

There is no diversion.

If a person is incapable of even basic work how do you expect them not to live in poverty?

well that is a loaded question actually. Why are they incapable? are they disabled or just to lazy to put effort to get a better job?

disabled (physically and mentally) i have no issue with helping. now those that chose to drop out of high school (after putting forth ZERO effort) and now stuck in poverty? nope. not really.

Now saying that i am willing to help pay for them to get an education or training. I have no trouble with my taxes going for that.

 

[Genx87]

Overpaying according to whom? "Overpaying" is not some immutable law of physics. It is a relative term, heavily influenced by our priorities and expectations as a society. That there are many third-world countries where the value of labor is a dollar per day, there is absolutely no reason America has to embrace that value. We spent many decades as the most prosperous country on Earth while simultaneously ensuring a healthy, balanced wealth distribution that gave most Americans a nice middle class lifestyle. There is no inherent reason that balance has to shift except for the greed of the very rich and the gullibility of their faithful apologists.

Overpaying according to the market. The balance is going to shift regardless of what protectionist policies you try to enact. We live in a global economy. That means American workers are going to have to compete with 3rd world workers for certain jobs. American factories are going to have to compete with the 3rd world and their lack of regulation to stay open.

American doesnt have to embrace a dollar a day wage. But they sure as hell have to address it if we want to keep our people doing the same work employed.

Putting up a wall to protect our workers from the harsh realities of the world will work for so long. Until we cant afford to pay for any of the goods and it comes crashing down.

So while blaming the evil rich is a great talking point. It doesnt address the real world and doesnt answer the question of why overpaying for goods and services is a long term viable plan.

 

[Throckmorton]

are you that stupid think that is what i said?

It's what you MEANT. Your belief is that because there are jobs that exist in the trades, it's OK for people working at Wal Mart to be paid poverty wages, simply because there is a *possibility* of them getting a better job. How is it not obvious to you that a) a certain number of jobs will always be menial and b) if everybody learns a trade there will be a labor glut and those jobs will not pay well ?

 

[Bowfinger]

Overpaying according to the market. The balance is going to shift regardless of what protectionist policies you try to enact. We live in a global economy. That means American workers are going to have to compete with 3rd world workers for certain jobs. American factories are going to have to compete with the 3rd world and their lack of regulation to stay open.

That is certainly the right's dogma, but I have yet to see it proven. It is simply repeated as fact. It's certainly true to an extent for exports (lacking government subsidies), but I see no reason it accept it as an axiom for the domestic market. More to the point, however, preserving a thriving American middle class does not require complete isolation, but merely a respectful balance.

American doesnt have to embrace a dollar a day wage. But they sure as hell have to address it if we want to keep our people doing the same work employed.

Putting up a wall to protect our workers from the harsh realities of the world will work for so long. Until we cant afford to pay for any of the goods and it comes crashing down.

So while blaming the evil rich is a great talking point. It doesnt address the real world and doesnt answer the question of why overpaying for goods and services is a long term viable plan.

Blaming the rich is perfectly appropriate when one considers the tremendous shift in wealth concentration over the last 30 years or so. It is very much due to an imbalance, where we've sacrificed the middle class in order to make the rich richer. It does not have to be that way, nor should it be that way. History has shown again and again that when the rich get too greedy, it ends badly ... for them.

 

[nehalem256]

It's what you MEANT. Your belief is that because there are jobs that exist in the trades, it's OK for people working at Wal Mart to be paid poverty wages, simply because there is a *possibility* of them getting a better job. How is it not obvious to you that a) a certain number of jobs will always be menial and b) if everybody learns a trade there will be a labor glut and those jobs will not pay well ?

You mean like when liberals encouraged women to enter the workforce leading to workforce participation rate increasing?

And that this workforce participation rate increase correlates much better with the lack of growth in wages than Reaganomics does(unless you believe Reagan was President in the 1970s

 

[Harrod]

A know a girl who is a walmart "manager". Its not what most people would describe as a manager. Its more like a chief cashier who you can trust not to rob the place blind

This

 

[Genx87]

That is certainly the right's dogma, but I have yet to see it proven. It is simply repeated as fact. It's certainly true to an extent for exports (lacking government subsidies), but I see no reason it accept it as an axiom for the domestic market. More to the point, however, preserving a thriving American middle class does not require complete isolation, but merely a respectful balance.

What do you mean it hasnt been proven? This very thread is talking about Walmarts vendors going overseas. Why would they go over seas if not to save on costs from labor or regulations?

There certainly can be a respectful balance. But it will take an honest look at our regulatory situation. What can we streamline\drop in order for jobs to stop flowing overseas.

Blaming the rich is perfectly appropriate when one considers the tremendous shift in wealth concentration over the last 30 years or so. It is very much due to an imbalance, where we've sacrificed the middle class in order to make the rich richer. It does not have to be that way, nor should it be that way. History has shown again and again that when the rich get too greedy, it ends badly ... for them.

You are free to blame the rich. However, blaming the rich wont help the workers who lost their job to chinese worker who will do it for less in a factory that can do it cheaper.

I also believe you have a misguided notion that the rich are the only ones who invest\benefit in these companies. Millions of middle class workers retirement accounts invest in companies shipping jobs overseas to increase shareholder wealth.

 

[waggy]

It's what you MEANT. Your belief is that because there are jobs that exist in the trades, it's OK for people working at Wal Mart to be paid poverty wages, simply because there is a *possibility* of them getting a better job. How is it not obvious to you that a) a certain number of jobs will always be menial and b) if everybody learns a trade there will be a labor glut and those jobs will not pay well ?

nope. i said exactly what i meant.

of course there are always going to be menial labor jobs. Walmart is a great place for high school/college/retired etc.

but to say that a cashier should be able to support a family? no. sorry if that is the best job they get then again they should look at the chocies they made in life. Did they put 100% into school (odds are no)? did they look for training outside of school? did they do anything besides be a lazy shit?

 

[Darwin333]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/15/walmart-walkout-action-black-friday

Seattle Walmart worker Sara Gilbert said she had taken the decision to go on strike to protest the fact that she could only make around $14,000 dollars a year. Despite working as a customer service manager, she said, her family remained reliant on food stamps and other benefits. "I work full time at the richest company in the world," she said.


Think about it, if the foodstamps and other federal taxpayer benefits were not around, no one would work for 14K a year at walmart since it would not be enough to survive, so Walmart would be forced to pay higher wages if the wish to attract employees.

But since The government at taxpayers expense pays for the food and other needs of Walmart employees, they can pay 14K and pocket the fat profits.

Thats not quite true....

 

[Bowfinger]

What do you mean it hasnt been proven? This very thread is talking about Walmarts vendors going overseas. Why would they go over seas if not to save on costs from labor or regulations?

There certainly can be a respectful balance. But it will take an honest look at our regulatory situation. What can we streamline\drop in order for jobs to stop flowing overseas.

What do I mean? How did I start this discussion just a few posts ago? What has the U.S. done to try to stop it, or even slow it? Not only do we not discourage companies from sending jobs overseas, we give them tax breaks to do so. We also generally take a hands-off approach to countries that dump their products into the U.S. market, with no attempt to level the playing field for U.S. manufacturers by imposing offsetting tariffs for poor worker and environmental standards. We don't even try to preserve American jobs, in great part because the right just chants over and over, "It's a global economy. Nothing can be done." That's the whole point. It's an assertion without proof.

You are free to blame the rich. However, blaming the rich wont help the workers who lost their job to chinese worker who will do it for less in a factory that can do it cheaper.

I also believe you have a misguided notion that the rich are the only ones who invest\benefit in these companies. Millions of middle class workers retirement accounts invest in companies shipping jobs overseas to increase shareholder wealth.

Yes, millions of "middle class" workers invest relative pennies while the very wealthy invest fortunes. Further, those "middle class" workers are increasingly finding their jobs are evaporating, and all too often their retirement with them. The problem is too many people are short-sighted. They don't recognize the true cost of all this magical overseas investing and "low, low prices", right up until it's their job that gets off-shored.

 

[Genx87]

What do I mean? How did I start this discussion just a few posts ago? What has the U.S. done to try to stop it, or even slow it? Not only do we not discourage companies from sending jobs overseas, we give them tax breaks to do so. We also generally take a hands-off approach to countries that dump their products into the U.S. market, with no attempt to level the playing field for U.S. manufacturers by imposing offsetting tariffs for poor worker and environmental standards. We don't even try to preserve American jobs, in great part because the right just chants over and over, "It's a global economy. Nothing can be done." That's the whole point. It's an assertion without proof.

We also enact more and more labor and envrionmental regulation that doesnt help preserve jobs here.

I may have misunderstood what you were saying. I took it as the right's belief that jobs are shipped overseas due to the cost of manufacturing within this country hasnt been proven.

That said I also think the idea we can force our jobs to stay here by erecting a wall would only work for so long. We have a better chance success by combing the thousands of regulations business has to deal with in order to do business here and fixing that to save jobs.

Yes, millions of "middle class" workers invest relative pennies while the very wealthy invest fortunes. Further, those "middle class" workers are increasingly finding their jobs are evaporating, and all too often their retirement with them. The problem is too many people are short-sighted. They don't recognize the true cost of all this magical overseas investing and "low, low prices", right up until it's their job that gets off-shored.

That is a nice way of dimissing millions of retirement funds as inconsequential. Driving down their returns due to higher costs while raising the costs of products wont do them any favors.

 

[Throckmorton]

nope. i said exactly what i meant.

of course there are always going to be menial labor jobs. Walmart is a great place for high school/college/retired etc.

but to say that a cashier should be able to support a family? no. sorry if that is the best job they get then again they should look at the chocies they made in life. Did they put 100% into school (odds are no)? did they look for training outside of school? did they do anything besides be a lazy shit?

Menial jobs aren't for high school, college, and retired (huh?) people. That's one of the most bizarre conservative myths that has appeared in the last couple years. They're the jobs that regular people have... Do you live under a rock? Go to Wal Mart and make note of the people working there.

 

[Ausm]

As I mentioned in another thread, Walmart is a great counter-example to those who claim the wealthy do not get back as much in taxes as they pay in. I'd say the Walton heirs are being handsomely subsidized by Uncle Sam, the biggest welfare queens of all.

Yeah it's funny how the Rightists on this forum aren't up in arms over this?!?!?

 

[WackyDan]

What do I mean? How did I start this discussion just a few posts ago? What has the U.S. done to try to stop it, or even slow it? Not only do we not discourage companies from sending jobs overseas, we give them tax breaks to do so. We also generally take a hands-off approach to countries that dump their products into the U.S. market, with no attempt to level the playing field for U.S. manufacturers by imposing offsetting tariffs for poor worker and environmental standards. We don't even try to preserve American jobs, in great part because the right just chants over and over, "It's a global economy. Nothing can be done." That's the whole point. It's an assertion without proof.


Yes, millions of "middle class" workers invest relative pennies while the very wealthy invest fortunes. Further, those "middle class" workers are increasingly finding their jobs are evaporating, and all too often their retirement with them. The problem is too many people are short-sighted. They don't recognize the true cost of all this magical overseas investing and "low, low prices", right up until it's their job that gets off-shored.

You can't discourage companies from building overseas. Well wait.. You can by erasing some of the overbearing the environmental and labor regulations - but that isn't my point.

It is indeed a global economy, and the countries of India and China represent two of the biggest hotbeds of growth on the planet. Those consumers who are rising in income and class are the ones driving the rapid growth of computers, cars, and so forth... where as here growth in those items is measured in the single digits. Even with cheaper labor here it wouldn't be cost effective to manufacture and ship from here to what is your largest growth market. So bitching about manufacturing in China is somewhat idiotic.

What comes around goes around...Chinese labor costs are indeed rising with the growth of personal wealth/middle class there as are labor rights. High fuel costs (transport) will drive more manufacturing back here as it did a few short years ago. I used to work for a Chinese company... but was based here in the states. They employ thousands of employees here and paid me a very respectable/competitive wage for my industry...

So it goes both ways. 50 years from now the economy will be fully global with just in time manufacturing local to each continent... and we'll have to find something new to bitch about. - Probably social security... We'll all be old enough or dead by then anyway.

 

[WackyDan]

Yeah it's funny how the Rightists on this forum aren't up in arms over this?!?!?

It is bothersome... But please leave the Waltons out of it... Walmart is indeed a public traded company. That bothers me more than who the fuck the heirs to the Walmart fortune are. Makes any argument sound pretty fucking petty and baseless.

 

[momeNt]

When will lefties learn that government is designed for the rich? No amount of populist rhetoric and grandstanding by Obamas and those to follow him will ever fix the problem.

 

[EXman]

And how many plumbers/electricians/construction workers do you need? We are in a housing glut, and there are only so many clogged toilets per day. There's no shortage of people in those trades.

LoL I cannot find a good plumber anywhere! And You know Construction is pretty screwed over with cheap mexican labor so...