VW to offer money to diesel owners

[Matthiasa]

Heres the question then, did you think anything about it before you were told? If not why does it matter now? If one were to have had any effects from them doing this it would have already happened. Being told does not magically change what is going on.
Fact is if it was/is as bad as you guys think it is it would have been detected long ago by standard air monitoring, with elevated levels associated wit the release of those vehicles.

Fact of the matter is standard agriculture produces significantly more than all of vehicular transportation as it is...

 

[Phoenix86]

Heres the question then, did you think anything about it before you were told? If not why does it matter now? If one were to have had any effects from them doing this it would have already happened. Being told does not magically change what is going on.
Fact is if it was/is as bad as you guys think it is it would have been detected long ago by standard air monitoring, with elevated levels associated wit the release of those vehicles.

Fact of the matter is standard agriculture produces significantly more than all of vehicular transportation as it is...

Facts? You want facts? OK. Fine.

Fact: the cars are not currently road legal as they don't pass emissions test. This kind of affects resale value, which is likely approaching 0 until a fix is in place, no matter how you slice it, it's a significant loss to the consumer.

Fact: they were given subsidies and tax credits for being green. This directly robs the government meaning everyone, even those who didn't buy one are indirectly affected.

Fact: this is massive consumer fraud.

Fact: it wasn't detected as early as it should have been due to lax regulation laws.

Fact: confirmed my initial suspicion.

 

[waggy]

Give me pre-fuckup revelation trade in value on my TDI at best condition pricing (don't haggle), a significant discount on a new or like new VW, and a reasonable cash payout (say a grand) for my trouble. I don't think that's crazy greedy considering the company knowingly perpetrated a massive fraud against it's customers and saddled me with a car I may not be able to renew the registration on.

that i can see people actually arguing for.

 

[Thanatosis]

Anybody foolish enough to buy a VW, Audi or Porsche after this scandal deserves what they get.


These german assholes sold hundreds of thousands of cars that polluted up to 15x as much as they claimed and haven't offered the citizens of this country any $ for the tons of nitrogen destroying our lungs. I don't understand why the US doesn't seize their assets and force VW to buy back the cars and dispose of them. A software fix gives 500,000 people a crappy car they never intended to buy while allowing the cars to continue on the road presents a health hazard.


I would be happy to see VAG thrown out of the american market completely. Besides Porsche, every car they make is plastic infused junk that will break down in 80,000 miles, 30,000 for any turbo model. They are junk, not even comparable to KIA or Hyundai in quality.

 

[Matthiasa]

Facts? You want facts? OK. Fine.

Fact: the cars are not currently road legal as they don't pass emissions test. This kind of affects resale value, which is likely approaching 0 until a fix is in place, no matter how you slice it, it's a significant loss to the consumer.

Fact: they were given subsidies and tax credits for being green. This directly robs the government meaning everyone, even those who didn't buy one are indirectly affected.

Fact: this is massive consumer fraud.

Fact: it wasn't detected as early as it should have been due to lax regulation laws.

Fact: confirmed my initial suspicion.

What are you thoughts on older cars that don't have modern catalytic converters?

 

[Hoober]

Anybody foolish enough to buy a VW, Audi or Porsche after this scandal deserves what they get.


These german assholes sold hundreds of thousands of cars that polluted up to 15x as much as they claimed and haven't offered the citizens of this country any $ for the tons of nitrogen destroying our lungs. I don't understand why the US doesn't seize their assets and force VW to buy back the cars and dispose of them. A software fix gives 500,000 people a crappy car they never intended to buy while allowing the cars to continue on the road presents a health hazard.


I would be happy to see VAG thrown out of the american market completely. Besides Porsche, every car they make is plastic infused junk that will break down in 80,000 miles, 30,000 for any turbo model. They are junk, not even comparable to KIA or Hyundai in quality.

I wouldn't touch a Kia or Hyundai. On the other hand, I love my TDI. No idea where you're getting plastic infused junk. It's one of the most solid cars I've ever owned.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Anybody foolish enough to buy a VW, Audi or Porsche after this scandal deserves what they get.

I'm not too sure about that. VW is going to be hurting big time here for quite a while. The longer this goes on the more damage it does and most customers are not going to go near their brands until they see how things play out. But once things do get resolved if VW is allowed to remain in the market (I'm with you, I'd like to see the US kick them out entirely, at least temporarily although it probably won't happen) they're going to have work their asses off to regain lost market share and rebuild trust. I have a feeling that for a few years we're going to see huge price cuts on VW, big rebates and incentives, 0% financing and likely some sort of extended warranty or free maintenance program. If you ever want to buy a VW, immediately after this gets sorted out would be the perfect time to do it.

 

[who?]

What are you thoughts on older cars that don't have modern catalytic converters?

The cash for clunkers campaign got rid of LOTS of those.

 

[Phoenix86]

What are you thoughts on older cars that don't have modern catalytic converters?

I think critical thinking isn't your bag, baby.

 

[Matthiasa]

...And I think you're just being a intellectually dishonest and that simply proved my point.

 

[Phoenix86]

...And I think you're just being a intellectually dishonest and that simply proved my point.

TIL presenting straw men is intellectually honest.

How many sellers/owners cars w/o modern catalytic converters are receiving subsidies/tax breaks?

How many sellers/owners cars w/o modern catalytic converters weren't aware, or could look up, the fact the car didn't have one prior to purchase?

Was the EPA aware that sellers/owners cars w/o modern catalytic converters were harming the environment?

How many sellers/owners cars w/o modern catalytic converters are still on the road and daily drivers like all these diesel cars?

How many people who participated in cash for clunkers bought VW diesels? :sneaky:

Why didn't you address a single statement I made?

 

[Matthiasa]

1)There has been programs that provide monetary incentive to get those cars off the road. I would call that a subsidy.
2)That depends, not all sellers are honest and information isn't always easy to find even when there.
3)I would say yes, but it is the EPA after all...
4)Percent wise likely fairly small. But then again those models of diesel cars were never all the popular relatively speaking as well. Even within VWs line-up it's less than 1/5 of all sales during the period.
5) No VW car was in the top 10 for vehicles acquired through the program. so likely not enough to matter.

 

[Phoenix86]

1)There has been programs that provide monetary incentive to get those cars off the road. I would call that a subsidy.
2)That depends, not all sellers are honest and information isn't always easy to find even when there.
3)Percent wise likely fairly small. But then again those models of diesel cars were never all the popular relatively speaking as well. Even within VWs line-up it's less than 1/5 of all sales during the period.
4) No VW car was in the top 10 for vehicles acquired through the program. so likely not enough to matter.

1. A subsidy to REMOVE older cars is not the same as a subsidy to BUY "cleaner" ones.

It's literally the opposite.

The classical definition of literal, not the more modern usage where it can also mean figuratively.

2. This data is readily available at the time of purchase. The data on the VWs was not. One is complete fraud, the other, at worse is buyers ignorance. Clearly the same thing right? Hence the strawman you presented. If these are hard concepts to understand, try reading.

3. Sorry, the answer this question is a resounding yes. The EPA/public knows how much older cars pollute. However the EPA/public was NOT aware of the VW issues until well AFTER the cars were sold. Again, it's literally the opposite. Again, classical definition.

4. It was a rhetorical question. Try to keep up.

 

[NetWareHead]

Anybody foolish enough to buy a VW, Audi or Porsche after this scandal deserves what they get.

Im actually thinking this is a good opportunity to buy a used diesel VW now at these depressed values and be able to score for a great price. Im seeing people trying to sell their cars and droppng prices.

I would be happy to see VAG thrown out of the american market completely. Besides Porsche, every car they make is plastic infused junk that will break down in 80,000 miles, 30,000 for any turbo model. They are junk, not even comparable to KIA or Hyundai in quality.

Disagree, my turbodiesel Jetta has been pretty rock solid since 2009 and 150,000 miles so far.

I wouldn't touch a Kia or Hyundai. On the other hand, I love my TDI. No idea where you're getting plastic infused junk. It's one of the most solid cars I've ever owned.

:thumbsup:

 

[allisolm]

While I feel for you all and I think a $750 coupon plus $500 cash is an insult a free car is kind of extreme.

Here's what the owners are actually going to get:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...debit-cards-gift-cards-compensation/75451982/

"$500 Visa debit card, which can be spent on anything, and a $500 dealership credit and and no-charge 24-hour Roadside Assistance for three years"

No stipulations.
"By accepting the offer, vehicle owners will not be required to relinquish their right to participate in a class-action lawsuit, take legal actions on their own or give up any potential future compensation"

"The offer to VW owners requires them to visit VWDieselInfo.com" (site active now), "then enter their Vehicle Identification Number, name, address and mileage. Afterward, owners will receive their "goodwill package" in four weeks. Owners must then take that package to the dealer to get their Visa debit card and VW gift card."

"The vehicles included in the offer are the four-cylinder diesel versions of the 2009 to 2015 Jetta TDI, 2009 to 2014 VW Jetta SportWagen TDI, 2010 to 2015 VW Golf TDI, 2015 VW Golf SportWagen TDI, 2012 to 2015 VW Beetle TDI and VW Beetle Convertible TDI and the 2012 to 2015 VW Passat TDI. Owners of the 2009-15 diesel Audi A3 will receive also receive the offer."

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[PricklyPete]

I guess I deserve what I get. I just traded my A4 for a Q5 (neither were diesel). After shopping around at all the competition I couldn't find a mid-sized SUV with the features, luxury, and value of the Q5. It's price was the most competitive and it had the better technology and luxury features. I don't buy cars as investments though, I buy them as tools for travel and enjoyment. In 5-7 years with 50k+ miles on it I won't really be worrying about it when I trade it in for the next one.

I really don't think Audi (esp non diesel) will suffer like VW will (brand...not company financials). Porsche even less so.

 

[slag]

I guess I deserve what I get. I just traded my A4 for a Q5 (neither were diesel). After shopping around at all the competition I couldn't find a mid-sized SUV with the features, luxury, and value of the Q5. It's price was the most competitive and it had the better technology and luxury features. I don't buy cars as investments though, I buy them as tools for travel and enjoyment. In 5-7 years with 50k+ miles on it I won't really be worrying about it when I trade it in for the next one.

BMW X3/X4, or Mercedes GLC class are all in the same price range and rated higher. Sounds like you are an audi lover though which is great, they make awesome cars.

 

[tynopik]

I'm also not okay with your car polluting. My car has to adhere to clean air standards so why should VW owners get a pass with their cars? Make it mandatory.

I think some people here are going to be surprised when they find out that pre-1967 vehicles are allowed to pollute as much as they want

even since 1967, cars are only required to meet the levels that were in force when they were new.

even with the 'cheat', those VW cars are going to be cleaner than many 15 year old diesels on the road

let's not pretend that this is resulting in some huge spike in overall emissions, in reality it's all background noise

should VW be punished? sure

but should current owners be punished by forcing them to lose performance or install unwieldy addons? absolutely not

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[ultimatebob]

Here's what the owners are actually going to get:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...debit-cards-gift-cards-compensation/75451982/

"$500 Visa debit card, which can be spent on anything, and a $500 dealership credit and and no-charge 24-hour Roadside Assistance for three years"

No stipulations.
"By accepting the offer, vehicle owners will not be required to relinquish their right to participate in a class-action lawsuit, take legal actions on their own or give up any potential future compensation"

"The offer to VW owners requires them to visit VWDieselInfo.com" (site active now), "then enter their Vehicle Identification Number, name, address and mileage. Afterward, owners will receive their "goodwill package" in four weeks. Owners must then take that package to the dealer to get their Visa debit card and VW gift card."

"The vehicles included in the offer are the four-cylinder diesel versions of the 2009 to 2015 Jetta TDI, 2009 to 2014 VW Jetta SportWagen TDI, 2010 to 2015 VW Golf TDI, 2015 VW Golf SportWagen TDI, 2012 to 2015 VW Beetle TDI and VW Beetle Convertible TDI and the 2012 to 2015 VW Passat TDI. Owners of the 2009-15 diesel Audi A3 will receive also receive the offer."

Yeah, screw that. I'd hold out for the inevitable class action lawsuit settlement.

 

[waggy]

Yeah, screw that. I'd hold out for the inevitable class action lawsuit settlement.

"By accepting the offer, vehicle owners will not be required to relinquish their right to participate in a class-action lawsuit, take legal actions on their own or give up any potential future compensation



but..why not take this also?

 

[Phoenix86]

I think some people here are going to be surprised when they find out that pre-1967 vehicles are allowed to pollute as much as they want

even since 1967, cars are only required to meet the levels that were in force when they were new.

How many 48 year old cars are on the road? As daily drivers?

In 2010, after C4C the median age of cars on the road was 3.6 years old. Half the cars on the road are less than 4 years old. The average is around 11.5 years old. Modern cats were implemented in the early 80s.

This is a strawman argument, and even then, a terrible one.

 

[Phoenix86]

No stipulations.
"By accepting the offer, vehicle owners will not be required to relinquish their right to participate in a class-action lawsuit, take legal actions on their own or give up any potential future compensation"

This is the silver lining to the offer. It's a start and doesn't prevent future action. When I read then I felt a little better for VW owners.

 

[ultimatebob]

"By accepting the offer, vehicle owners will not be required to relinquish their right to participate in a class-action lawsuit, take legal actions on their own or give up any potential future compensation



but..why not take this also?

Oh, I read that wrong. Nevermind