VW to offer money to diesel owners

mzkhadir

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2003
9,509
1
76
FRANKFURT — Volkswagen is expected to offer cash to the owners of diesel cars this coming week as it steps up an effort to recover some of the good will it lost after admitting in September that the vehicles were programmed to cheat on emissions tests.

Volkswagen officials said the company would make an announcement on Monday but would not confirm a report on an automotive website that diesel owners would be offered up to $1,250. The site, The Truth About Cars, said the owners would get a cash card worth $500 that they could spend any way they liked, and another $500 to $750 that they could spend at a Volkswagen dealer.

The company faces many lawsuits from owners seeking compensation for the decreased resale value of the roughly 500,000 Volkswagen and Audi vehicles that were equipped with illegal software. It was not clear whether owners would have to give up any rights to sue if they accepted the cash.

Volkswagen cannot sell its remaining 2015 model-year diesels in the United States or Europe, or its 2016 diesels, until it has found ways to repair those cars to bring them into compliance with emissions standards.

The illegal software allowed the cars to detect when emissions testing was underway and turn on the emissions controls. But when the cars were on the road, they emitted up to 40 times the permissible amount of nitrogen oxide, a pollutant harmful to the lungs.

Two dealers said on Saturday that they were aware that Volkswagen was planning something but did not know specifics. “There is a program in the works with VW, that I do understand,” said Alan Brown, the head of an association of Volkswagen dealers.

Cars with illegal software include diesel Golf, Jetta, Beetle and Passat models sold since the 2009 model year, as well as Audi A3 cars.

The Environmental Protection Agency said on Monday that some larger Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche diesel vehicles, all of which are produced by Volkswagen, also had software that was not allowed. But Volkswagen has denied that the software in those cars was designed to cheat on emissions tests, and they would probably not be eligible for the cash compensation.

Already, Volkswagen has been trying to minimize the damage to sales by offering cash incentives to existing owners if they buy or lease a new car, as well as big discounts for all buyers.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...to-ease-owners’-ire/ar-CC4Mro?ocid=spartanntp
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
well..that sounds like a shitty deal. they get screwed buying the car and screwed now..
 

dr150

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2003
6,570
24
81
That's a terrible deal. They're going to get smashed in the gut for this.

$500? The rest with VW?...pffft.

Bring on the class action. I'm all-in.
 

nsafreak

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2001
7,093
3
81
Yeah......$500 in cash and $750 to use towards a manufacturer that most of those folks have pretty ill will towards at this point in time. I don't see many, if any, owners of affected vehicles going for this deal especially if it precludes them from joining a class action suit. VW knows it's looking at some huge damages from the lawsuits and is trying to mitigate the damage.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,997
126
Yeah......$500 in cash and $750 to use towards a manufacturer that most of those folks have pretty ill will towards at this point in time. I don't see many, if any, owners of affected vehicles going for this deal especially if it precludes them from joining a class action suit. VW knows it's looking at some huge damages from the lawsuits and is trying to mitigate the damage.

Taking the cash will most definitely preclude the owner from joining a class action suit. But they're counting on the "bird in the hand" syndrome. Most people will follow the path of least resistance and take the sure $500 now rather than waiting a decade for a check after the class action is formed, fought, appealed, re-appealed and finally settled with the attorneys being the only ones to get rich on the deal.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
Class action diminution of value lawsuit has to be starting up somewhere...
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,440
13,778
146
The US Government needs to step in and force VW to buy back ALL the affected vehicles...at purchase price plus any finance fees.

Slapping them on the pinkies won't stop such behavior...but a good kick in the nuts MIGHT.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,527
5,931
136
is that 1250$ in addition to fixing the emissions defect in the car?

if so, doesn't seem like a bad deal.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,732
17,271
136
is that 1250$ in addition to fixing the emissions defect in the car?

if so, doesn't seem like a bad deal.

Thing is fixing the problem will cost you more in gas due to reduced fuel economy & less performance. Fixing it may even increase maintenance costs overtime.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
2
0
is that 1250$ in addition to fixing the emissions defect in the car?

if so, doesn't seem like a bad deal.


More likely they are offering this to lock in the customers and preclude them from a class action lawsuit. The cheap solution for VW if they can get away with it is to modify the engine operating software to act as though it was being tested all the time and therefore get better emissions.

Doing that will no doubt lower fuel mileage and power and is the reason they didn't operate the car in this manor all along. So, if you take the $500 or $1250 and they change the software to comply with EPA specifications they expect there customers to accept 20% lower power and mileage, or whatever the difference is.

This sounds like the kind of offer a lawyer would come up with...


Brian
 

us3rnotfound

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2003
5,334
3
81
More likely they are offering this to lock in the customers and preclude them from a class action lawsuit. The cheap solution for VW if they can get away with it is to modify the engine operating software to act as though it was being tested all the time and therefore get better emissions.

Doing that will no doubt lower fuel mileage and power and is the reason they didn't operate the car in this manor all along. So, if you take the $500 or $1250 and they change the software to comply with EPA specifications they expect there customers to accept 20% lower power and mileage, or whatever the difference is.

This sounds like the kind of offer a lawyer would come up with...


Brian
Yep, good idea. Cheap fix to code:

Before:
While test_detected
{
Be nice to the environment;
}
After:
While 1
{
Be nice to the environment;
}
What's so hard about that?
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
23
81
Probably the fact the the "be nice to environment" equipment is missing :p
If it was just software it would have already been fixed.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
The US Government needs to step in and force VW to buy back ALL the affected vehicles...at purchase price plus any finance fees.

Slapping them on the pinkies won't stop such behavior...but a good kick in the nuts MIGHT.

A buy back is the only real solution. That doesn't mean it's viable, but if I owned one that's what I would push for. Pretty much every sale was complete fraud and the owners are fucked considering resale value is complete shit, if not 0. Who would buy a vehicle you can't register?

That being said, a class action suit probably wouldn't get anywhere near that and might be close to what they are offering now.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,440
13,778
146
A buy back is the only real solution. That doesn't mean it's viable, but if I owned one that's what I would push for. Pretty much every sale was complete fraud and the owners are fucked considering resale value is complete shit, if not 0. Who would buy a vehicle you can't register?

That being said, a class action suit probably wouldn't get anywhere near that and might be close to what they are offering now.

Yep...if it was just a case of not getting the EPA mileage...that's one of those things that there are just too many variables to guarantee...but this was outright fraud. Of course, liars being liars LAWYERS being lawyers...the consumer will get fucked again...VW will get a small slap on the hands...and the lawyers will get the biggest portion of any settlement.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Probably the fact the the "be nice to environment" equipment is missing :p
If it was just software it would have already been fixed.

It is just software though. The problem is that fixing the emissions means compromises elsewhere.
 

mrjminer

Platinum Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,739
16
76
What they did was so blatantly fraud that they should be required to take the cars back off people for their current market value, at the least.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,696
42,321
136
Previously I had hoped the EPA wouldn't hit them with a massive crippling fine and that they could extricate the company from this f'd up situation they sunk themselves into. I've changed my mind. Whatever remaining good will US owners have to VW is going to totally evaporate.

<-TDI owner.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
A buy back is the only real solution. That doesn't mean it's viable, but if I owned one that's what I would push for. Pretty much every sale was complete fraud and the owners are fucked considering resale value is complete shit, if not 0. Who would buy a vehicle you can't register?

That being said, a class action suit probably wouldn't get anywhere near that and might be close to what they are offering now.

As a VW TDI Jetta owner, I dont care about resale value and I wont sell it. I like my car, the way it drives and fuel economy I have. I typically drive my vehicles for years until uneconomical to repair/maintain. We are charged a tax based on vehicle value when it comes time to register so with the recent hit in value value, its a plus for me come next registration time.

As far as I know, California is the only state that supposedly wont let owners register their vehicles. Im pretty sure I wont have any problem. (hopefully)

My main concern is whether the fix VW implements will rob performance and/or econonomy and if there will be a way to chip the vehicle to restore said performance afer the recall etc...

IMO, I think the only way to have all 3 desired features (performance, fuel economy and low emissions) are to install a DEF system. I wouldnt mind that as long as the install didnt hack apart my car and worked to spec.
 

PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
12,363
475
126
are NOx traded? could VW buy like 25 years of emissions, pay a big ass fine, and do nothing to the cars? some other industry will be forced to reduce their NOx
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
As a VW TDI Jetta owner, I dont care about resale value and I wont sell it. I like my car, the way it drives and fuel economy I have. I typically drive my vehicles for years until uneconomical to repair/maintain. We are charged a tax based on vehicle value when it comes time to register so with the recent hit in value value, its a plus for me come next registration time.

As far as I know, California is the only state that supposedly wont let owners register their vehicles. Im pretty sure I wont have any problem. (hopefully)

My main concern is whether the fix VW implements will rob performance and/or econonomy and if there will be a way to chip the vehicle to restore said performance afer the recall etc...

IMO, I think the only way to have all 3 desired features (performance, fuel economy and low emissions) are to install a DEF system. I wouldnt mind that as long as the install didnt hack apart my car and worked to spec.

That is an incredibly selfish mindset.

Personally, as non-VW owner I will be pissed if they don't stop registrations across the country if the fix isn't applied. I'm not ok with your car polluting. That being said, I also think that they should be much tougher on the redneck who hacks off the catalytic converter on his/her truck.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,732
17,271
136
^^^they'll just adjust the emission test machines to detect if its been patched or not.
 
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NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
That is an incredibly selfish mindset.

Personally, as non-VW owner I will be pissed if they don't stop registrations across the country if the fix isn't applied. I'm not ok with your car polluting. That being said, I also think that they should be much tougher on the redneck who hacks off the catalytic converter on his/her truck.

It is selfish but I am not in the financial state to buy another car at this point in time. I have to make do with what I have. Bought my car in 2009 and I baby it; take it for every recommended service checkup, did my timing chain and other expensive fixes etc etc etc and so far it still runs well. Im not going to look at replacing this car until at least 2019 or later.

That being said, it is not my fault I was lied to. I bought the car with best intentions and qualified for a green vehicle rebate.

Fact of the matter is if the fix from VW robs MPG, when why should I use the vehicle anymore if not more economical to drive than a typical gasoline vehicle? The benefit to diesel is gone. I already have to handicap myself by only filling up at select gas stations; diesel is not universally available like gasoline. I enjoy the torquey engine and it's fun to drive. Again, if the fix robs power thats another benefit gone for me.

I dont mind a DEF system (if that is the path VW chooses); even though it is another product the car consumes that I will have to most likely supply. However, if the fix VW installs handicaps my car from a mileage or performance standpoint then what are my options? Sell it...lol not likely to get a good price. So I have to live with the vehicle and make it economical to operate.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,071
5,429
136
as someone who is directly affected by this, I can tell you that vw can shove that weak ass $1250 hush money. My car lost significant resale value, I was blatantly lied to and they intentionally skirted emissions testing through cheating the system.

I will be joining any real class action lawsuit. I never would have bought this car if it didn't get the mileage it does and wasn't running 'clean diesel'

Fuck you VW.