VW to offer money to diesel owners

[Sheik Yerbouti]

the only money i want from them is ~18 grand which is what my loan for the car was

This. +1, no more, no less.

 

[Matthiasa]

That is an incredibly selfish mindset.

Personally, as non-VW owner I will be pissed if they don't stop registrations across the country if the fix isn't applied. I'm not ok with your car polluting. That being said, I also think that they should be much tougher on the redneck who hacks off the catalytic converter on his/her truck.

FYI all cars pollute... The amount of harm, health impact, caused by them is less than the amount for people driving drunk, or as a more similar example of smoking, yet none of them are banned.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Should these come under a lemon law if the manufacturer cannot fix without failing to maintain delivery of the advertised emissions and EPA mileage?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

FYI all cars pollute... The amount of harm, health impact, caused by them is less than the amount for people driving drunk, or as a more similar example of smoking, yet none of them are banned.

we're not talking about just a bump up in the emissions for these cars, it's

10 to 40 times the permissible level of 70 milligrams per mile.

Multiply that with the number of vehicles on the roads that are producing that, and the number goes up, fast. Specifically

With nearly a half-million cars driving an average of 11,000 miles per year for nearly seven years, that could amount to anywhere from about 14,000 to 59,000 tons of additional nitrogen oxides.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-vw-pollution-footprint-20151007-htmlstory.html

 

[marvdmartian]

Meanwhile, these same owners are stuck with a car that will either:
1. be effectively de-tuned, so it will pass emissions tests (as the computer was programmed to do, during EPA testing, which gimped it all to hell), or,
2. have to install (or get VW to install) a urea system that has already been estimated to run $5000-$8000, plus will take up a large chunk of the available trunk room....or displace the spare tire!

These people will also have to face the fact that their vehicles have lost an incredible amount of resale value, because, let's face it, no one's going to want to purchase a vehicle facing this sort of dilemma!

The ONLY acceptable solution to me, if I owned one of these vehicles, would be for VW to buy it back, at whatever the resale value would have been (before this problem came to light), and let them try to re-sell the vehicles in overseas markets, where they won't care about the amount of emissions it puts out.

VW cheated the government emissions testing entities, AND the consumers who purchased one of these vehicles, and a 2-bit "gosh, we're sorry" pay-off, like this, would be totally unacceptable! Really wouldn't surprise me, either, if it came with some legal paperwork, that says if you accept it, you're giving up your rights to sue them, later on. :thumbsdown:

 

[Phoenix86]

Man, the sad part in all of this is people bought these cars specifically for the clean part. That was their biggest selling point. The people who tried to do a good job for the environment are ending up (one of) the worst offenders...

 

[NetWareHead]

2. have to install (or get VW to install) a urea system that has already been estimated to run $5000-$8000, plus will take up a large chunk of the available trunk room....or displace the spare tire!

Think we are getting too excited now. There is no realistic need for a urea system that will take up that much room. (look at the size of fuel tanks vs DEF tanks on a typical tractor trailor) DEF is consumed typically at a rate 3-6% of fuel consumption; more when driving conservatively, thats when the most NoX is emmitted. A very small tank is all that would be needed.

 

[Matthiasa]

we're not talking about just a bump up in the emissions for these cars, it's

Multiply that with the number of vehicles on the roads that are producing that, and the number goes up, fast. Specifically

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-vw-pollution-footprint-20151007-htmlstory.html

Yes and still significantly less harmful to society than what I had already listed.

 

[iamwiz82]

FYI all cars pollute... The amount of harm, health impact, caused by them is less than the amount for people driving drunk, or as a more similar example of smoking, yet none of them are banned.

I am, honestly, not even sure what you are trying to say. driving drunk is banned.

 

[SSSnail]

Yes and still significantly less harmful to society than what I had already listed.

There's nearsighted, and farsighted, then there's you - shortsighted.

 

[Matthiasa]

I am, honestly, not even sure what you are trying to say. driving drunk is banned.

Alcohol is not banned nor is Driving. Some stuff get jumbled when doing edits...

 

[cbrunny]

Think we are getting too excited now. There is no realistic need for a urea system that will take up that much room. (look at the size of fuel tanks vs DEF tanks on a typical tractor trailor) DEF is consumed typically at a rate 3-6% of fuel consumption; more when driving conservatively, thats when the most NoX is emmitted. A very small tank is all that would be needed.

The urea tank in my cruze is pretty big. It can hold two jugs of urea from nthe garage. Not sure of volume but I'd guess its close to 40 litres. Takes up the space of my spare tire.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Alcohol is not banned nor is Driving. Some stuff get jumbled when doing edits...

Just to be clear, are you a German national? I ask because you appear to be defending VW and Matthiasa is a pretty common German name.


Brian

 

[waggy]

Those asking for the care to be "free" are insane. that's not going to happen. not to mention you don't deserve a free car.

 

[NetWareHead]

The urea tank in my cruze is pretty big. It can hold two jugs of urea from nthe garage. Not sure of volume but I'd guess its close to 40 litres. Takes up the space of my spare tire.

Understood but I dont think VW is going to sacrafice the entire trunk space or lose the spare tire for a DEF system. Your car is a scenario where DEF system was added from the beginning at the design stage with a generous tank size.

It would be nice to have a tank that big but my prediction is that a much smaller tank will be squeezed in wherver it will fit.

 

[cbrunny]

Understood but I dont think VW is going to sacrafice the entire trunk space or lose the spare tire for a DEF system. Your car is a scenario where DEF system was added from the beginning at the design stage with a generous tank size.

It would be nice to have a tank that big but my prediction is that a much smaller tank will be squeezed in wherver it will fit.

Ah gotcha. Probably true.

 

[Gunbuster]

Understood but I dont think VW is going to sacrafice the entire trunk space or lose the spare tire for a DEF system. Your car is a scenario where DEF system was added from the beginning at the design stage with a generous tank size.

It would be nice to have a tank that big but my prediction is that a much smaller tank will be squeezed in wherver it will fit.

Don't forget it's not just a tank with a supply hose. They have an integrated heater as well to keep the DEF from freezing. I wonder how much that pulls from the power system when running?

 

[NoTine42]

Doesn't the Passat (with the same 2l diesel) have DEF, but still pollutes like 20x as much as regulations?

It's better than 40x but it's not the only part of the solution.

 

[ultimatebob]

While I feel for you all and I think a $750 coupon plus $500 cash is an insult a free car is kind of extreme.

What they should do is allow you to trade in the vehicle (at no cost to the owner) for a newer model that meets emission guidelines. Whether or not that is an upgraded Diesel or a car with a gas engine is up to VW.

If the owner doesn't want to take that offer, give them a bigger cash settlement like $5,000 to cover the loss in resale and/or any modifications that need to be made to the car to meet emissions in the future.

 

[JulesMaximus]

That is an incredibly selfish mindset.

Personally, as non-VW owner I will be pissed if they don't stop registrations across the country if the fix isn't applied. I'm not ok with your car polluting. That being said, I also think that they should be much tougher on the redneck who hacks off the catalytic converter on his/her truck.

Or the fucking idiots who "roll coal" with their trucks.

I'm also not okay with your car polluting. My car has to adhere to clean air standards so why should VW owners get a pass with their cars? Make it mandatory.

 

[K1052]

Those asking for the care to be "free" are insane. that's not going to happen. not to mention you don't deserve a free car.

Give me pre-fuckup revelation trade in value on my TDI at best condition pricing (don't haggle), a significant discount on a new or like new VW, and a reasonable cash payout (say a grand) for my trouble. I don't think that's crazy greedy considering the company knowingly perpetrated a massive fraud against it's customers and saddled me with a car I may not be able to renew the registration on.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Give me pre-fuckup revelation trade in value on my TDI at best condition pricing (don't haggle), a significant discount on a new or like new VW, and a reasonable cash payout (say a grand) for my trouble. I don't think that's crazy greedy considering the company knowingly perpetrated a massive fraud against it's customers and saddled me with a car I may not be able to renew the registration on.

This is reasonable its more like a lemon law thing. Free car & keeping it is unreasonable.

 

[Matthiasa]

Just to be clear, are you a German national? I ask because you appear to be defending VW and Matthiasa is a pretty common German name.


Brian

No, I am not a German national and I am more pointing out that people are blowing it way out of proportions what VW did, in the grand scheme of things, and with what they feel VW should offer.

 

[Brian Stirling]

No, I am not a German national and I am more pointing out that people are blowing it way out of proportions what VW did, in the grand scheme of things, and with what they feel VW should offer.

Well I for one don't think what VW did was inconsequential and in no way think things are being blown out of proportion. GM failed to act quickly with the ignition switch issue and it cost lives, but the switch problem wasn't INTENTIONAL. Yes, GM needed to be penalized for failing to act more quickly and for the resultant deaths, but again, the failure of the switch was not intentional.

What VW did was intentional and although it will be hard to prove anyone died as a consequence there is good reason to believe that some that have breathing issues were further harmed by increased pollution from VW vehicles.

When an individual harms people by committing fraud that individual will face a prison term even though the fraud may only have been a few thousand dollars. Why should a company that's committed fraud to the tune of many billions of dollars get away with a slap on the wrist? If you want to prevent other companies from trying the same thing then you have to make them aware that the consequence of getting caught will be way more than any gain in the short run.

Big entities like VW can do far greater harm than individual criminals can. In a typical year the total cost for street crime (muggings, burglaries, car jackings, etc) works out to about $18B a year -- that a lot of money and we can't let people get away with that. Bernie Maddof swindled $65B by himself an amount equal to more than 3 full years of all street crime combined -- tell me he should have been slapped on the wrist.

VW needs to be punished so that others with power think twice before doing wrong. It would be great if some of there execs were put in prison, but I doubt anyone from VW will be locked away for even a day.


Brian

 

[Phoenix86]

No, I am not a German national and I am more pointing out that people are blowing it way out of proportions what VW did, in the grand scheme of things, and with what they feel VW should offer.

Maybe you're just stupid? :hmm: