[vrzone] GTX670Ti in March

[blackened23]

Sure they are, not at the same levels as the performance sector but to say not about price/performance at all, considering it is a new arch and new node is hilarious.

Nvidia obviously gets a free pass when it comes to pricing, GTX 480 (10% faster, smaller node, 30% price premium, 7 months late to market) /580 (10% faster, same node, 30% price premium) , logic be damned. Because its not like nvidia has done the very same thing for years :whiste: But its okay, they get a free pass for pricing, because.,...I dunno. D:

Just be consistent with your argument. If you don't like premiums thats great, but don't try to defend nvidia in the process -- it is undisputable that they are far more guilty. The 480 and 580 both offered paltry performance increases over the competition with a huge jump in price premium. Just say they both overcharge and leave it at that

 

[railven]

Nice that you completely ignored my very post addressing this. Nvidia obviously gets a free pass when it comes to pricing, GTX 480 (10% faster, smaller node, 30% price premium, 7 months late to market) /580 (10% faster, same node, 30% price premium) say hi. Obviously you're just attacking AMD to attack them, logic be damned. Because its not like nvidia has done the very same thing for years :whiste: . In fact, they're far more guilty. But its okay, they get a free pass for pricing, because.,...I dunno. D:

His own words: he's "heavily invested in nVidia." Since I don't have an ABT account, I didn't get to ask if he meant finacially (stock) or just function.

My setup is built around a 6 output GC. I'd have to monkey around to fit a 4 output card.

 

[SirPauly]

Nvidia obviously gets a free pass when it comes to pricing, GTX 480 (10% faster, smaller node, 30% price premium, 7 months late to market) /580 (10% faster, same node, 30% price premium) , logic be damned. Because its not like nvidia has done the very same thing for years :whiste: But its okay, they get a free pass for pricing, because.,...I dunno. D:

Just be consistent with your argument. If you don't like premiums thats great, but don't try to defend nvidia in the process but it is undisputable that they are far more guilty. The 480 and 580 both offered paltry performance increases over the competition with a huge jump in price premium.

You didn't hear gamers strongly defending the premium pricing though. I have no problem with AMD pricing their products -- my beef is the irony and turn around of defending strongly premium prices because AMD decided to price them here. I've never seen anything like it in over a decade of posting.

 

[railven]

You didn't hear gamers strongly defending the premium pricing though. I have no problem with AMD pricing their products -- my beef is the irony and turn around of defending strongly premium prices because AMD decided to price them here. I've never seen anything like it in over a decade of posting.

Are you kidding me? Never? You never saw "gamers" defend the top tier nVidia card? Or even those insanely priced dual GPU cards from either camp? NEVER? EVER!?

...

Not sure if serious anymore.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Personally don't recall anyone strongly defend premiums so much except for Rollo.

You didn't hear gamers strongly defending the premium pricing though. I have no problem with AMD pricing their products -- my beef is the irony and turn around of defending strongly premium prices because AMD decided to price them here. I've never seen anything like it in over a decade of posting.

In my view, the irony here is you. I don't even want to know how many times you've dumped all over AMD for their pricing strategy this generation. It kind of boggles the mind. Now you make the claim that you are fair and balanced, but I have yet to see any posts where you punished Nvidia for their pricing over the years. That is the problem people have with your crusade, you hold AMD and Nvidia to a completely different standard, despite your claims to the contrary.

 

[Grooveriding]

You didn't hear gamers strongly defending the premium pricing though. I have no problem with AMD pricing their products -- my beef is the irony and turn around of defending strongly premium prices because AMD decided to price them here. I've never seen anything like it in over a decade of posting.

Your supposed irony you are seeing reminds me of the morbidly obese individual who doesn't understand why they keep seeing their fat in the mirror while they continue to stuff themselves full of food.

You continue to see 'defending strongly' because you continue to make the same broken illogical argument ad nauseam in the forums. So members of the forum continue to be forced to correct your same broken illogical argument ad nauseam. Pointing out the lengthy history of halo priced products costing similar and in excess of current best in class GPU pricing. All of which you continue to ignore so you can continue to make the same broken illogical argument ad nauseam.

The irony is you my friend, you are creating the perceived irony that amuses you so, by continuing to make the same broken illogical argument ad nauseam that you know will get the same reaction in posters finding it necessary to correct your fallacy and not allow you to perpetuate it.

At this point I doubt you are surprised at all, and seem to in fact, have a penchant for creating this 'irony' that so surprises you, because you continue to make the same broken illogical argument ad nauseam. So people continue to point out to you that your argument is broken and there is no precedent being set here.

So you have a choice, you can continue to make the same broken illogical argument ad nauseam and continue to be corrected and see the 'irony' that you are creating, not your respondents. Alternately you can give it up and stop making the same broken illogical argument ad nauseam.


Oh.

Go Premiums!

 

[GaiaHunter]

You didn't hear gamers strongly defending the premium pricing though. I have no problem with AMD pricing their products -- my beef is the irony and turn around of defending strongly premium prices because AMD decided to price them here. I've never seen anything like it in over a decade of posting.

It is simple.

People aren't defending price premiums, they are just bashing you.

People didn't say "WOW the 7970 is a marvel price/performance wise". People said "it is an expensive good card".

Then came SirPauly riding the mighty price/performance stallion, saying AMD was changing strategy, saying AMD was overpricing their cards, etc, ad nauseum.

Of course people then obviously ask where was SirPauly riding its mighty price/performance stallion when the GTX580 price/performance was (is) lower compared to the 6970/GTX570 than the 7970 price/performance is compared to both the GTX580 and the 6970/GTX570?

When I and others said that the 7970 was an expensive card, did you see people bashing me or them?

When people say that the 7770 is overpriced do you see anyone saying it isn't?

People paid a premium for the GTX580 cause it was the fastest single GPU card. It isn't anymore. People wanting the fastest single GPU card buy the 7970.

AMD lineup is currently 7970, 7950, 6970, 6950. The 7970 is
the fastest card in the market and its premium goes in line with its performance increase over the 7950/GTX580 (something the GTX580 couldn't say over the GTX570/6970), so basically you aren't paying a premium at all compared to those cards. So AMD didn't exactly introduced any new premiums compared to the existing market before the 7970 arrival - AMD kept them (lowered them slightly to be exact).

So no, people aren't defending the price premiums they are just pointing that you are in a crusade and people in here can see when the king is naked.

 

[omeds]

So... 670ti hey.

 

[Grooveriding]

It's priceless, especially coming from a forum member who spends so much time discussing financial matters in a tech forum related to video graphics.

When we bought our house I would of loved to have spent $100,000 less, but the reality was that there were enough people willing to spend $100,000 more that the house carried that price.

When I bought a car I would of loved to have spent $10,000 less, but the reality was there were enough people willing to spend $10,000 more that the car carried that price.

Anyone who works for their money and doesn't have it fall from a money tree would love to pay less for everything they buy, preferably we'd all like it to be free! Those of us in reality though understand that everything comes at a certain cost and we can't just get it for the price we think it deserves. I mean, really ? I think a Ferrari deserves only a $2 price tag, so that is what I will pay for one. Trying to say it's 'ironic' and put it across as being incredulous that a fellow consumer would see the logic in something costing a certain amount is tantamount to foolishness. Everyone wants to pay less for everything, but having the common sense to see why certain things cost what they do and not whining about it is a logical addition to that want. Trying to use a universal sentiment - of wanting to pay as little as possible for everything we can - as a basis to predicate an argument that a luxury item doesn't command a price is broken and illogical.

The reality is there are enough people willing to spend $550 for a 7970, so that is the price it carries. I am mystified by a poster who seems to have such an affinity for financial matters, to the point I'd suspect they must be an avid investor or do it as vocation, be so puzzled by a luxury best in class item having a high price tag.

You don't need a 7970 to be a gamer, it's a luxury and commands a price accordingly being the best product available in its class, simple common sense. You can go get yourself a 6870 for $150 that will perform admirably and let you play any game you want at 1080P with settings adjustments. A 7970 is for someone who wants the best and AMD is aware of the pedigree it has in the market currently and priced it accordingly, get over it.

There is no shortage of precedents for the same in the PC sector, whether it be $1000 Intel extreme processors, a $600 Silverstone case, a $500 Asus motherboard, a $500 eVGA power supply and endless others.

I could more easily and at least be able to understand a poster who would just say 'I prefer nvidia to no end over AMD and I'm going to keep throwing crap against the 7970's wall and hope some sticks, because I just don't like that they have a better product' than one who tries to make such a broken tosser of an argument.

Why not just discuss the 670ti ? I mean really, as a sub-halo card, I am near positive it will have better price/performance ratio than the 7970 - so have at her!

 

[railven]

Why not just discuss the 670ti ? I mean really, as a sub-halo card, I am near positive it will have better price/performance ratio than the 7970 - so have at her!

Of course, it will be faster than an HD 7970 and cost $300!

 

[thilanliyan]

Of course, it will be faster than an HD 7970 and cost $300!

Not good enough...I want GTX580 tri-SLI performance for $200. I'm all about price/performance!!

 

[atticus14]

Would you make the same argument if the "delay" between Tahiti and Kepler was one week? I don't see why one would include impatience into the equation: I'm hoping that most people who are not in dire need of a new card right now have the sense and wait and compare the 7970 to what will be its actual competitor. The 580 is EOL. It comes down to how people judge the time difference between Tahiti and Kepler. I don't think 2 months are really that big a deal and I don't feel the need to make unfair comparisons...yet.

You know, it's not like Kepler is far away. It has taped out months ago, AIBs have cards, first NDAs have been signed. If the situation were different, I would agree that it was valid to compare 580 to 7970.

And what is a halo card?
The premium for the fastest card within a generation is more justified than the premium for a halo card of a new generation that is only the halo card because it came out 2 months earlier than the competition. From new generation you would usually expect better price/perf than what we got with Tahiti (and Cape Verde and probably Pitcairn).

Q1: Who thinks that the 7970 will stay the fastest card until the refresh comes in 2013 (supposedly)? The 480 and 580 were expensive, yes, but they held the crown until the next generation. I doubt Tahiti will be able to do that.

Q2: Who thinks that a 7970 is significantly cheaper to make than a 580?

Most people played the "waiting game" for 28nm gpus from either vendor...they are here now. If your still playing the waiting game you either bleed green, or a 450+ card was never in your budget to begin with and are playing the waiting game even longer by default (like me).

 

[Tempered81]

I think 7970 performance + ~5-10% for ~$385.

 

[SirPauly]

It is simple.

People aren't defending price premiums, they are just bashing you.

People didn't say "WOW the 7970 is a marvel price/performance wise". People said "it is an expensive good card".

Then came SirPauly riding the mighty price/performance stallion, saying AMD was changing strategy, saying AMD was overpricing their cards, etc, ad nauseum.

Of course people then obviously ask where was SirPauly riding its mighty price/performance stallion when the GTX580 price/performance was (is) lower compared to the 6970/GTX570 than the 7970 price/performance is compared to both the GTX580 and the 6970/GTX570?

When I and others said that the 7970 was an expensive card, did you see people bashing me or them?

When people say that the 7770 is overpriced do you see anyone saying it isn't?

People paid a premium for the GTX580 cause it was the fastest single GPU card. It isn't anymore. People wanting the fastest single GPU card buy the 7970.

AMD lineup is currently 7970, 7950, 6970, 6950. The 7970 is
the fastest card in the market and its premium goes in line with its performance increase over the 7950/GTX580 (something the GTX580 couldn't say over the GTX570/6970), so basically you aren't paying a premium at all compared to those cards. So AMD didn't exactly introduced any new premiums compared to the existing market before the 7970 arrival - AMD kept them (lowered them slightly to be exact).

So no, people aren't defending the price premiums they are just pointing that you are in a crusade and people in here can see when the king is naked.

Nah, it has been defending strongly price premiums even without my posts.

 

[omeds]

I think 7970 performance + ~5-10% for ~$385.

Change that to a 7950 and I might agree, although price is probably still a little optimistic.

 

[SirPauly]

It's priceless, especially coming from a forum member who spends so much time discussing financial matters in a tech forum related to video graphics.

When we bought our house I would of loved to have spent $100,000 less, but the reality was that there were enough people willing to spend $100,000 more that the house carried that price.

When I bought a car I would of loved to have spent $10,000 less, but the reality was there were enough people willing to spend $10,000 more that the car carried that price.

Anyone who works for their money and doesn't have it fall from a money tree would love to pay less for everything they buy, preferably we'd all like it to be free! Those of us in reality though understand that everything comes at a certain cost and we can't just get it for the price we think it deserves. I mean, really ? I think a Ferrari deserves only a $2 price tag, so that is what I will pay for one. Trying to say it's 'ironic' and put it across as being incredulous that a fellow consumer would see the logic in something costing a certain amount is tantamount to foolishness. Everyone wants to pay less for everything, but having the common sense to see why certain things cost what they do and not whining about it is not a logical addition to that want. Trying to use a universal sentiment - of wanting to pay as little as possible for everything we can - as a basis to predicate an argument that a luxury item doesn't command a price is broken and illogical.

The reality is there are enough people willing to spend $550 for a 7970, so that is the price it carries. I am mystified by a poster who seems to have such an affinity for financial matters, to the point I'd suspect they must be an avid investor or do it as vocation, be so puzzled by a luxury best in class item having a high price tag.

You don't need a 7970 to be a gamer, it's a luxury and commands a price accordingly being the best product available in its class, simple common sense. You can go get yourself a 6870 for $150 that will perform admirably and let you play any game you want at 1080P with settings adjustments. A 7970 is for someone who wants the best and AMD is aware of the pedigree it has in the market currently and priced it accordingly, get over it.

There is no shortage of precedents for the same in the PC sector, whether it be $1000 Intel extreme processors, a $600 Silverstone case, a $500 Asus motherboard, a $500 eVGA power supply and endless others.

I could more easily and at least be able to understand a poster who would just say 'I prefer nvidia to no end over AMD and I'm going to keep throwing crap against the 7970's wall and hope some sticks, because I just don't like that they have a better product' than one who tries to make such a broken tosser of an argument.

Why not just discuss the 670ti ? I mean really, as a sub-halo card, I am near positive it will have better price/performance ratio than the 7970 - so have at her!

I would rather discuss the price/performance of Kepler; to see what nVidia brings, but I get the HD 7970 Halo card shoved down my throat around here and why it is worth the premium.

 

[Lonyo]

I would rather discuss the price/performance of Kepler; to see what nVidia brings, but I get the HD 7970 Halo card shoved down my throat around here and why it is worth the premium.

It's worth the premium over the GTX580, because the premium you pay gets you the equivalent performance you pay the premium of.
It's not really worth the premium though, because both cards are overpriced.

 

[railven]

I would rather discuss the price/performance of Kepler; to see what nVidia brings, but I get the HD 7970 Halo card shoved down my throat around here and why it is worth the premium.

Does that imply you know the price/performance for Kepler? Is the GTX 670 Ti -/+ 10% of the GTX 580 and is it at least under $350?

 

[NIGELG]

I would rather discuss the price/performance of Kepler; to see what nVidia brings, but I get the HD 7970 Halo card shoved down my throat around here and why it is worth the premium.

Buddy,take a break from posting.

 

[SirPauly]

Buddy,take a break from posting.

Nah!!

 

[Arzachel]

Nostradamus (AtenRa) :twisted:

-January 9th 2012, AMD launched the HD7970 at $549 being the fastest single chip card.(1)

-February 15th 2012, NV made clear that 28nm yields are lower than expected and more wafers are needed. (2) :whiste:

-March 21th 2012, AMD launched the HD7870 at $299 being equal to HD6970.(3)

AMD have established the new 28nm Graphics Cards price/performance.(4)

-April 9th 2012 NV launched the GTX680 at $649 (30% faster than Tahiti) :sneaky:

(1+2+3+4) New 28nm Graphics Card Prices World Order emerges (dramatic i know)

April 10th 2012, AtenRa receives the Anandtech Forums Nostradamus award 2012 :biggrin::biggrin:

If we're gues... I mean conversing with the spirt of a late Voodoo Banshee:

Late March/early April - GTX670ti launched at ~450$ . Beats the 7950 at stock, only matches the 7950 when both are overclocked due to having less headroom.

Late August/early September - GTX780 launched, with the rest of the 7XX lineup soon following(think GF110). Beats the GTX580 by 50-60%.

November/December - 8970 launched, die size a tad under 400mm^2, TDP up to around 240W or so. Beats the GTX780 by ~20%.

 

[SirPauly]

Are you kidding me? Never? You never saw "gamers" defend the top tier nVidia card? Or even those insanely priced dual GPU cards from either camp? NEVER? EVER!?

...

Not sure if serious anymore.

Strongly defend? Not really -- except for Rollo.

 

[SirPauly]

In my view, the irony here is you. I don't even want to know how many times you've dumped all over AMD for their pricing strategy this generation. It kind of boggles the mind.

That's odd! Why would it bother you? The points I raise are fair actually about price/performance, substantial and significant new node, new arch, comparing to a 14+month old, already premium priced sku, raising MSRP by 50 percent, softened their commitment to the sweet spot strategy.

The Halo HD 7970 gets strongly defended to such levels as if the above fair points shouldn't even be in the discussion; as if the sweet spot strategy never existed for many, many years.

It's quite frankly puzzling.

 

[wahdangun]

can we just end this discussion about price ??? I'm sick of it, don't be such a whiner. if you can't afford it then just deal with it.

btw is there a die shot or something ?

 

[SirPauly]

Don't try to force a one way view about things to me.