[vrzone] GTX670Ti in March

[toyota]

Why are you comparing it to the HD 4870? The HD 4980 was the top AMD single GPU card at the time of launch for HD 5870.

If you want to play that game:
HD 5870 launched at $380, versus HD 7970 $550 == 45% increase
Performance HD 7970 is about 60% faster.

The HD 7970 doesn't have more performance per dollar? It's a HALO card. I didn't know top end cards are suppose to have that as a requirement. Well shit, no top tier card had great Perfollar since the GT 8800. It's all been downhill since then for top tier cards.

The HD 6970 wasn't a halo card, it didn't launch first, and it was priced to compete with the market. Same with the HD 4980. HD 5870/HD 7970 launched first and were priced to compete with the market.

But, If IF IFFFFFF, I get it, and if the world ended tomorrow, your argument is still moot.

because I am talking about MSRP prices increase from one gen to the next. and please show me another regular production AMD card that offered less performance per dollar than the previous gen. 3870 increased that over the 2900xt. 4870 increased that over the 3870. 5870 increased that over the 4870. 6970 increased that over the 5870. the 7970 actually went downhill in that regard by going up more in price than it increased in performance.

 

[railven]

because I am talking about MSRP prices increase from one gen to the next. and please show me another regular production AMD card that offered less performance per dollar than the previous gen. 3870 increased that over the 2900xt. 4870 increased that over the 3870. 5870 increased that over the 4870. 6970 increased that over the 5870. the 7970 actually went downhill in that regard by going up more in price than it increased in performance.

I've only been talking about MSRP prices from one gen to the next.

I already proved you wrong from HD 4890 to HD 5870, which is why you LOL'ed and compared it to the HD 4870 to prove your point.

I just checked some benches, the HD 5870 was not 50% faster than the HD 4890, thus the 52% market wasn't satisfied. In on average I'm seeing 40-45% faster.

So, yeah, LOL right?

 

[SirPauly]

I'm a consumer, not a stock holder - any increased percentage is a stupid value to me. I want to see prices go down, not up, but when they go up I don't sit at the gas pump and cry that my dollar isn't going as far.

You guys ignore the whole functioning world when you sit here and drum up all this drama about a price increase, which isn't even a new trend, and then act coy because you think you're making a point?

I didn't realize this until earlier, but hey - HD 4890 to HD 5870 was a 52% price increase. Were you screaming about Go Premiums back then?

Oh yeah,

Go Premiums!

Really, as a gamer, the first thing I notice is price/performance. Odd.

And actually yes, I did notice on the 5870 but the 5850 redefined price/performance for the sweet spot and the 6950 continued on a similar path, so, to me, AMD was still consistent with their over-all strategy.

 

[toyota]

I've only been talking about MSRP prices from one gen to the next. You went as far as to LOL at comparing two gen shift (HD 5870 to HD 7970.)

I already proved you wrong from HD 4980 to HD 5870, which is why you LOL'ed and compared it to the HD 4870 to prove your point.

I just checked some benches, the HD 5870 was not 50% faster than the HD 4980, thus the 52% market wasn't satisfied. In on average I'm saying 40-45% faster.

So, yeah, LOL right?

I was not aware that you set up the rules here for what I was trying to show.

 

[blackened23]

I was not aware that you set up the rules here for what I was trying to show.

Lets flip the argument around, show me how nvidia was ever a leader in providing value with their halo parts - GTX 285, GTX 480, GTX 580, 8800 ultra. I eagerly await for you to justify a 499$ GTX 480 sticker cost.

Nvidia and Apple should really merge, their respective fanbases are pretty similar.

 

[railven]

Really, as a gamer, the first thing I notice is price/performance. Odd.

You're right, that's the first thing I notice too. April 2010 I bought a HD 5870 2GB Eye6 for ~$500, it was about...10-15% slower than my recently deceased HD 4870x2, and about the same in cost.
This time I'd be buying an HD 7970 probably in the ~$600 range that is about 60% faster stock.

So, yeah, that's the first thing I notice, as a gamer.

And actually yes, I did notice on the 5870 but the 5850 redefined price/performance for the sweet spot and the 6950 continued on a similar path, so, to me, AMD was still consistent with their over-all strategy.

Wait, wait...MSRP went up but performance didn't match it 1:1, and that was fine, perfectly fine, but this time it isn't?

Aren't you the one that claimed consistency?

Go Premiums!

 

[railven]

I was not aware that you set up the rules here for what I was trying to show.

I didn't, I already disprove your initial argument. I didn't even bother to look back at the HD 4890, which was the top AMD card at launch for HD 5870.

52% MSRP increase with only 40-45% performance increase. Funny, AMD launched first that time and it has a very similar trend this time. 50% MSRP incease with 40-45% performance increase.

No, you'll change it like SirPauly just did, "yeah but the HD 5850 was different" and "yeah well the HD 4870 was different."

Go Premiums!

$2,000 GPUs in 2013, you read it here first.

 

[SirPauly]

I was not aware that you set up the rules here for what I was trying to show.

Price performance seems to be irrelevant now.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Of course it's not good value... it's the fastest/best part on the market. But they still shouldn't lower their prices until enough people feel the same way as you do.

You have to differentiate a bit here. A card that is is 5% faster than the GTX580 is also the fastest/best part on the market. Sell that for $500? It's all shades of grey, no specific price where good or bad starts. A usual high end card at 499 or 549 is bad value, yes. By that metric, I would consider the 7970 worse value.

But I think we went a bit off topic with the price discussion.

 

[railven]

Lets flip the argument around, show me how nvidia was ever a leader in providing value with their halo parts - GTX 285, GTX 480, GTX 580, 8800 ultra. I eagerly await for you to justify a 650$ GTX 280 sticker cost, or the 850$ 8800 ultra sticker cost.

Oh yeah, a rational explanation of the GTX 480 with 10% more performance than the 5870 with a 129$ higher cost....that would be a good explanation as well. Nvidia and Apple should really merge, their respective fanbases are pretty similar.

I already know that answer to that one, it's the same one every one uses when they bring this point up - "I never considered that card to be a good value to begin with."

D'uh, THEY ARE HALO CARDS! Price : Perf isn't their purpose, it's milking the rabid epeen wagers.

 

[SirPauly]

I didn't, I already disprove your initial argument. I didn't even bother to look back at the HD 4890, which was the top AMD card at launch for HD 5870.

52% MSRP increase with only 40-45% performance increase. Funny, AMD launched first that time and it has a very similar trend this time. 50% MSRP incease with 40-45% performance increase.

No, you'll change it like SirPauly just did, "yeah but the HD 5850 was different" and "yeah well the HD 4870 was different."

Go Premiums!

$2,000 GPUs in 2013, you read it here first.

Haven't changed anything -- have been consistent about price/performance. The question is why aren't you considering you're a consumer?

 

[toyota]

Lets flip the argument around, show me how price performance was with the nvidia halo parts - GTX 285, GTX 480, GTX 580, 8800 ultra.

I eagerly await for you to backtrack on your argument, PLEASE tell me.

so now this is an AMD vs Nvidia game you want to play? I guess that is where you have go when you cant win the other argument. the Ultra was a silly limited production card and you know that. AFAIK the other cards you listed did offer the same or more performance per dollar than their previous gen predecessors.

 

[railven]

Haven't changed anything -- have been consistent about price/performance.

Of course. As have I.

 

[SirPauly]

D'uh, THEY ARE HALO CARDS! Price : Perf isn't their purpose, it's milking the rabid epeen wagers.

They don't offer a lot of performance/value when compared to a 14 month old sku as well. Not really much of a halo card, one may imagine.

 

[railven]

They don't offer a lot of performance/value when compared to a 14 month old sku as well. Not really much of a halo card, one may imagine.

GTX 580 MSRP $500/HD 7970 MSRP $550 == 10% price increase, 20-30% faster.

HD 5870 MSRP $380/GTX 480 MSRP $500 == 30% price increase, 10-15% faster.

Hmmm...or are we looking only at GTX 480 to GTX 580? Because, it sure seems more Price : Perf came from AMD from the crown exchange.

Go Premiums!

 

[Grooveriding]

So the 670ti is going to cost $300 and be faster than a 7970, right ?

 

[blackened23]

They don't offer a lot of performance/value when compared to a 14 month old sku as well. Not really much of a halo card, one may imagine.

Of course GTX 580 being 10% faster and 30% costlier than 6970 is completely justified

 

[railven]

So the 670ti is going to cost $300 and be faster than a 7970, right ?

Sure, why not. We all live in a world were we ignore reality around here. Cost of Living is eating away at the middle class, and here people are complaining about halo card prices, and the trickle effect.

When did we become so entitled? I should start boycotting Land of Lakes cheese, the cost per lb has gone up but the amount I get has not. That seems like a robbery. Haha.

 

[boxleitnerb]

GTX 580 MSRP $500/HD 7970 MSRP $550 == 10% price increase, 20-30% faster.

HD 5870 MSRP $380/GTX 480 MSRP $500 == 30% price increase, 10-15% faster.

Hmmm...or are we looking only at GTX 480 to GTX 580? Because, it sure seems more Price : Perf came from AMD from the crown exchange.

Go Premiums!

Eeeeh:
different generation
same generation

Not really comparable?

 

[SirPauly]

GTX 580 MSRP $500/HD 7970 MSRP $550 == 10% price increase, 20-30% faster.

HD 5870 MSRP $380/GTX 480 MSRP $500 == 30% price increase, 10-15% faster.

Hmmm...or are we looking only at GTX 480 to GTX 580? Because, it sure seems more Price : Perf came from AMD from the crown exchange.

Go Premiums!

If you feel comparing 28nm technologies with a new arch against a 14+ month old, 40nm, already premium priced product sku and receiving that small amount of performance value as some sort of substantial win of some kind -- there ya go.

I never realized that the GTX 580 was going to be used as some sort of objective pricing barometer to so many consumers and gamers out there -- how silly of me to desire more price/performance out of a substantial and significant node change with a new arch.

 

[blackened23]

If you feel comparing 28nm technologies with a new arch against a 14+ month old, 40nm, already premium priced product sku and receiving that small amount of performance value as some sort of substantial win of some kind -- there ya go.

I never realized that the GTX 580 was going to be used as some sort of objective pricing barometer to so many consumers and gamers out there -- how silly of me to desire more price/performance out of a substantial and significant node change with a new arch.

So you're saying GTX 580 being 10% better than 6970, yet 30% costlier is justified yes?

 

[SirPauly]

Eeeeh:
different generation
same generation

Not really comparable?

But, obviously he lives in the real world.

 

[toyota]

So you're saying GTX 580 being 10% better than 6970, yet 30% costlier is justified yes?

no. I am pretty sure most people suggested the gtx570 or 6970 over the gtx580 because it was such a poor value.

 

[SirPauly]

So you're saying GTX 580 being 10% better than 6970, yet 30% costlier is justified yes?

nVidia can price them what ever they desire -- AMD can price them what ever they desire.

Personally like strong performance/value.

 

[SirPauly]

no. I am pretty sure most people suggested the gtx570 or 6970 over the gtx580 because it was such a poor value.

Indeed! What ever happened when gamers strongly defended price/performance? Now, it is strongly defend premiums -- go figure.