Voters vs. Illegal Immigrants. . .

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74


FACT: the Texas National Guard is made up of primarily spanish-speaking non-citizens who joined with the hope that serving may gain them their citizenship. I've even witnessed them speaking spanish in their large formations; and spoke with several of their white members who claimed there is reverse-racism, throoughout their units. The higher-ranking latinos prevent any of the white members from going beyond E4 rank!

crazy eh? So they ARE fighting our wars, trust me. They came and relieved us in our sector in Afghanistan, and the running joke is that we had just spent 12 months teaching English to the locals, and now they were going to have to learn Spanish to get along! Hint: there are not many Spanish-to-Pashtu translaters around! ... DOH!

They can join the NG if they're not a citizen? I know the service has way more then it's fair share on minorities, but I assumed they were all US citizens??

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is 0 proof that immigration has ever done anything for this country but make it stronger, EVERY DAMN TIME ITS THE SAME FEARMONGERING you once again are not looking at the big picture to use "legal" as a copout.

Are you telling me that since the 80s we have not grown as far as our riches and higher standard of living? A lot of that is due to mexican labor.

The immigrants have helped us and been pretty well behaved, go look up irish riots sometime when they came here, there was a lot more reason for fearmongering, but the fact is that we intergrated them by making them legal citizens and not half-assed having to scramble for fake ss numbers to work so they chilled and became part of america.

Uh "legal" immigration has built this country. Illegal immigration is a security threat and a drain on our infrastructure.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is 0 proof that immigration has ever done anything for this country but make it stronger, EVERY DAMN TIME ITS THE SAME FEARMONGERING you once again are not looking at the big picture to use "legal" as a copout.

Are you telling me that since the 80s we have not grown as far as our riches and higher standard of living? A lot of that is due to mexican labor.

The immigrants have helped us and been pretty well behaved, go look up irish riots sometime when they came here, there was a lot more reason for fearmongering, but the fact is that we intergrated them by making them legal citizens and not half-assed having to scramble for fake ss numbers to work so they chilled and became part of america.

Uh "legal" immigration has built this country. Illegal immigration is a security threat and a drain on our infrastructure.

There is no difference between what mexicans are doing and what all immigrants have done all along. A few papers make no difference in the end result as long as there is protection as far as wages go.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is 0 proof that immigration has ever done anything for this country but make it stronger, EVERY DAMN TIME ITS THE SAME FEARMONGERING you once again are not looking at the big picture to use "legal" as a copout.

Are you telling me that since the 80s we have not grown as far as our riches and higher standard of living? A lot of that is due to mexican labor.

The immigrants have helped us and been pretty well behaved, go look up irish riots sometime when they came here, there was a lot more reason for fearmongering, but the fact is that we intergrated them by making them legal citizens and not half-assed having to scramble for fake ss numbers to work so they chilled and became part of america.

Uh "legal" immigration has built this country. Illegal immigration is a security threat and a drain on our infrastructure.

There is no difference between what mexicans are doing and what all immigrants have done all along. A few papers make no difference in the end result as long as there is protection as far as wages go.

I have a few papers that say I own over 1000 acres of land free and clear. If I were to get sick someone else can come along with a few papers and take it all away from me.

How can they take the money an illegal has sent back home with "a few papers"? They can take my life savings away with "a few papers", but not theirs??

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is 0 proof that immigration has ever done anything for this country but make it stronger, EVERY DAMN TIME ITS THE SAME FEARMONGERING you once again are not looking at the big picture to use "legal" as a copout.

Are you telling me that since the 80s we have not grown as far as our riches and higher standard of living? A lot of that is due to mexican labor.

The immigrants have helped us and been pretty well behaved, go look up irish riots sometime when they came here, there was a lot more reason for fearmongering, but the fact is that we intergrated them by making them legal citizens and not half-assed having to scramble for fake ss numbers to work so they chilled and became part of america.

Uh "legal" immigration has built this country. Illegal immigration is a security threat and a drain on our infrastructure.

There is no difference between what mexicans are doing and what all immigrants have done all along. A few papers make no difference in the end result as long as there is protection as far as wages go.

Yes it does, what makes you think it doesnt?

1. Legal papers means federal protections for wages
2. Legal papers means a background check has been done to ensure this isnt a drug dealer or terrorist entering our nation.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74


FACT: the Texas National Guard is made up of primarily spanish-speaking non-citizens who joined with the hope that serving may gain them their citizenship. I've even witnessed them speaking spanish in their large formations; and spoke with several of their white members who claimed there is reverse-racism, throoughout their units. The higher-ranking latinos prevent any of the white members from going beyond E4 rank!

crazy eh? So they ARE fighting our wars, trust me. They came and relieved us in our sector in Afghanistan, and the running joke is that we had just spent 12 months teaching English to the locals, and now they were going to have to learn Spanish to get along! Hint: there are not many Spanish-to-Pashtu translaters around! ... DOH!

They can join the NG if they're not a citizen? I know the service has way more then it's fair share on minorities, but I assumed they were all US citizens??

nope. in fact, my Platoon over there had one latino who was flown to Germany during our tour to get sworn in as a citizen.. after 10+ years in service! He had been trying for that long to make it happen! (the scary part was that he could still hardly speak any English!)

Our service is full of foreigners fighting for their citizenship!

 

[JeepinEd]

Steeplerot:

I became a naturalized citizen last year. My family came here legally from Central America, after waiting for over 2 years to get the correct documentation. Now, let me tell you two short stories:

1. A friend of ours decided he did not want to go through the paperwork to come here legally, so he decided to enter the US illegally. He started in El Salvador, made it through Guatemala, then got caught by authorities in Mexico. He disappeared for 3 weeks, before Mexican authorities dumped him in Guatemala. He was held in jail and was denied any phone calls, an attorney or a trial. He was beaten and interrogated (they wanted to know if there was a Coyote sneaking him into Mexico). Now, these same people are crossing into our country illegally and demanding that they be made legal? Does the word hypocrite mean anything to you?

2. I know several other families that came here legally at about the same time as us. Most of their family members went to work as janitors and construction workers. A few years ago, they started losing their jobs. All were replaced by illegal aliens working for cash. I know of one instance in particular, where a gal who was making $10.50/hour was fired and replaced by an illegal alien earning $6.25/hour under the table. I know this because another one of her coworkers, who was later fired, spoke to the new hire and got all the info. Similar situations took place with their husbands working construction. Of the 4 the I know, only 1 still has a job, earning just as much now, as he was 5 year ago.

Several of these people have now gone back to their country, because nobody will hire them anymore. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE HERE LEGALLY AND EXPECT LEGAL WAGES!

You also talk about them being able to purchase SS#'s off the street. THAT'S CALLED IDENTITY THEFT! They don't just make these numbers up. The name has to match the SS#, or the IRS will send them a letter.

I'd suggest you take off your rose colored glasses and come in to the real world where US Citizens and legal aliens are negatively affected by the flow of illegals into this country.

Ed

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is 0 proof that immigration has ever done anything for this country but make it stronger, EVERY DAMN TIME ITS THE SAME FEARMONGERING you once again are not looking at the big picture to use "legal" as a copout.

Are you telling me that since the 80s we have not grown as far as our riches and higher standard of living? A lot of that is due to mexican labor.

The immigrants have helped us and been pretty well behaved, go look up irish riots sometime when they came here, there was a lot more reason for fearmongering, but the fact is that we intergrated them by making them legal citizens and not half-assed having to scramble for fake ss numbers to work so they chilled and became part of america.

Uh "legal" immigration has built this country. Illegal immigration is a security threat and a drain on our infrastructure.

There is no difference between what mexicans are doing and what all immigrants have done all along. A few papers make no difference in the end result as long as there is protection as far as wages go.

Yes it does, what makes you think it doesnt?

1. Legal papers means federal protections for wages
2. Legal papers means a background check has been done to ensure this isnt a drug dealer or terrorist entering our nation.

Already covered one, and I never said we should not do background checks -we should, and immigrants back in the day had them, so your point is moot.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: JeepinEd
Steeplerot:

I became a naturalized citizen last year. My family came here legally from Central America, after waiting for over 2 years to get the correct documentation. Now, let me tell you two short stories:

1. A friend of ours decided he did not want to go through the paperwork to come here legally, so he decided to enter the US illegally. He started in El Salvador, made it through Guatemala, then got caught by authorities in Mexico. He disappeared for 3 weeks, before Mexican authorities dumped him in Guatemala. He was held in jail and was denied any phone calls, an attorney or a trial. He was beaten and interrogated (they wanted to know if there was a Coyote sneaking him into Mexico). Now, these same people are crossing into our country illegally and demanding that they be made legal? Does the word hypocrite mean anything to you?

2. I know several other families that came here legally at about the same time as us. Most of their family members went to work as janitors and construction workers. A few years ago, they started losing their jobs. All were replaced by illegal aliens working for cash. I know of one instance in particular, where a gal who was making $10.50/hour was fired and replaced by an illegal alien earning $6.25/hour under the table. I know this because another one of her coworkers, who was later fired, spoke to the new hire and got all the info. Similar situations took place with their husbands working construction. Of the 4 the I know, only 1 still has a job, earning just as much now, as he was 5 year ago.

Several of these people have now gone back to their country, because nobody will hire them anymore. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE HERE LEGALLY AND EXPECT LEGAL WAGES!

You also talk about them being able to purchase SS#'s off the street. THAT'S CALLED IDENTITY THEFT! They don't just make these numbers up. The name has to match the SS#, or the IRS will send them a letter.

I'd suggest you take off your rose colored glasses and come in to the real world where US Citizens and legal aliens are negatively affected by the flow of illegals into this country.

Ed

It is not the "illegals" that are affecting the country negativly it is the flawed laws that allowed this mess to start. People are just doing what is best for themselves and their families to make do.

 

[AAjax]

I think the point here is that you have to be a legal immigrant to join the armed forces. Stay on focus guys, saying this is a english vs spanish issue is missing the point. I sont care where anyone came from if you are legal, welcome Im glad your here. If your illegal I would hope that you could see past your situation and realise what your doing to the citizens of the country your living in. Im sure if the coin was reversed any countrys citizens on the receving end ouf a extrememly large influx of American illegal imigrants wouldnt be so happy. And who could blame them...hehehe our sh*t stinks just as much as the other guys.
We are a nation of immigrants, all im saying is that illegal imigration is not letting others of whatever origin have their fair shot. I want people from all over the world here, if only they had a chance, but their border dosent run allongside ours so I guess they are less worthy?
It is also not giving the host nation (US) any adequite means or time to deal with it. Its like saying "hello, may I come in?" geting the reply, "perhaps, please sit down and wait your turn". " then saying, nah Im comming in anyway. You may get in, but dont expect anyone to like it.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is 0 proof that immigration has ever done anything for this country but make it stronger, EVERY DAMN TIME ITS THE SAME FEARMONGERING you once again are not looking at the big picture to use "legal" as a copout.

Are you telling me that since the 80s we have not grown as far as our riches and higher standard of living? A lot of that is due to mexican labor.

The immigrants have helped us and been pretty well behaved, go look up irish riots sometime when they came here, there was a lot more reason for fearmongering, but the fact is that we intergrated them by making them legal citizens and not half-assed having to scramble for fake ss numbers to work so they chilled and became part of america.

Uh "legal" immigration has built this country. Illegal immigration is a security threat and a drain on our infrastructure.

There is no difference between what mexicans are doing and what all immigrants have done all along. A few papers make no difference in the end result as long as there is protection as far as wages go.

Yes it does, what makes you think it doesnt?

1. Legal papers means federal protections for wages
2. Legal papers means a background check has been done to ensure this isnt a drug dealer or terrorist entering our nation.

Already covered one, and I never said we should not do background checks -we should, and immigrants back in the day had them, so your point is moot.

ummm, so how do you propose we do background checks on 12 million illegal aliens? or those who continue to come in illegally? you seem to have lost touch with reality again...

how come criminals are never blamed for their own actions, unless they wear suits, by poeple like you?!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
There is 0 proof that immigration has ever done anything for this country but make it stronger, EVERY DAMN TIME ITS THE SAME FEARMONGERING you once again are not looking at the big picture to use "legal" as a copout.

Are you telling me that since the 80s we have not grown as far as our riches and higher standard of living? A lot of that is due to mexican labor.

The immigrants have helped us and been pretty well behaved, go look up irish riots sometime when they came here, there was a lot more reason for fearmongering, but the fact is that we intergrated them by making them legal citizens and not half-assed having to scramble for fake ss numbers to work so they chilled and became part of america.

Uh "legal" immigration has built this country. Illegal immigration is a security threat and a drain on our infrastructure.

There is no difference between what mexicans are doing and what all immigrants have done all along. A few papers make no difference in the end result as long as there is protection as far as wages go.

Yes it does, what makes you think it doesnt?

1. Legal papers means federal protections for wages
2. Legal papers means a background check has been done to ensure this isnt a drug dealer or terrorist entering our nation.

Already covered one, and I never said we should not do background checks -we should, and immigrants back in the day had them, so your point is moot.

How do you do background checks on people who run across a border unchecked?
And I dont recall you dealing with nunber one.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Like I said in my earlier post...

All parties are responsible for this mess.

1) Corporations for hiring them.
2) Our government that panders to corporations and won't enforce existing laws and having terrible trade policies.
3) The American public because we all like those cheapy-cheap prices.
4) The countries of origin that are so corrupt and ineffectual that they do nothing for their citizens.
5) The illegal immigrants themselves. Although I can understand the desperation, it IS still illegal.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

ummm, so how do you propose we do background checks on 12 million illegal aliens? or those who continue to come in illegally? you seem to have lost touch with reality again...

A lot easier then uprooting the workforce to deport them that much is for certain.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: JeepinEd
Steeplerot:

I became a naturalized citizen last year. My family came here legally from Central America, after waiting for over 2 years to get the correct documentation. Now, let me tell you two short stories:

1. A friend of ours decided he did not want to go through the paperwork to come here legally, so he decided to enter the US illegally. He started in El Salvador, made it through Guatemala, then got caught by authorities in Mexico. He disappeared for 3 weeks, before Mexican authorities dumped him in Guatemala. He was held in jail and was denied any phone calls, an attorney or a trial. He was beaten and interrogated (they wanted to know if there was a Coyote sneaking him into Mexico). Now, these same people are crossing into our country illegally and demanding that they be made legal? Does the word hypocrite mean anything to you?

2. I know several other families that came here legally at about the same time as us. Most of their family members went to work as janitors and construction workers. A few years ago, they started losing their jobs. All were replaced by illegal aliens working for cash. I know of one instance in particular, where a gal who was making $10.50/hour was fired and replaced by an illegal alien earning $6.25/hour under the table. I know this because another one of her coworkers, who was later fired, spoke to the new hire and got all the info. Similar situations took place with their husbands working construction. Of the 4 the I know, only 1 still has a job, earning just as much now, as he was 5 year ago.

Several of these people have now gone back to their country, because nobody will hire them anymore. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE HERE LEGALLY AND EXPECT LEGAL WAGES!

You also talk about them being able to purchase SS#'s off the street. THAT'S CALLED IDENTITY THEFT! They don't just make these numbers up. The name has to match the SS#, or the IRS will send them a letter.

I'd suggest you take off your rose colored glasses and come in to the real world where US Citizens and legal aliens are negatively affected by the flow of illegals into this country.

Ed

WOW< thanks for sharing your story!

I have a question though, are you implying that Mexico wants to keep the illegal alien jobs in the US just for the Mexicans?

 

[Steeplerot]

The only problem Ihave with JeepinEd's story there is the person who legally could work but decided they didnt want to continue to seek a new job and went back home, sounds like lack of commitment to looking for one, no excuse, there are jobs out there.

Get off your butt and put applications in or something.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

ummm, so how do you propose we do background checks on 12 million illegal aliens? or those who continue to come in illegally? you seem to have lost touch with reality again...

A lot easier then uprooting the workforce to deport them that much is for certain.

you really think so!? 12 MILLION, and growing every day! Who would do their checks? hell, how would we get them to SIGN UP for the checks?! Are you even thinking this through!?

forget it, you're nuts... you refuse to blame criminals for their own wrongdoings, unless they wear a suit or a uniform to work every day! THEN you have no problem whatsoever blaming someone for their own actions! lol... go figure!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
The only problem Ihave with JeepinEd's story there is the person who legally could work but decided they didnt want to continue to seek a new job and went back home, sounds like lack of commitment to looking for one, no excuse, there are jobs out there.

Get off your butt and put applications in or something.

omg...

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

ummm, so how do you propose we do background checks on 12 million illegal aliens? or those who continue to come in illegally? you seem to have lost touch with reality again...

A lot easier then uprooting the workforce to deport them that much is for certain.

you really think so!? 12 MILLION, and growing every day! Who would do their checks? hell, how would we get them to SIGN UP for the checks?! Are you even thinking this through!?

forget it, you're nuts... you refuse to blame criminals for their own wrongdoings, unless they wear a suit or a uniform to work every day! THEN you have no problem whatsoever blaming someone for their own actions! lol... go figure!

Ok mr irrational, who would go in and forcefully pull these 12 mil people and their belongings out of their homes, then ship them back to the borders? Who would check every house? who would be the one to CHECK papers for who is legit or not? who would transport them? who would take up the slack for the lost labor pool? Get a grip, you sound like a hysterical fool.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot


It is not the "illegals" that are affecting the country negativly it is the flawed laws that allowed this mess to start. People are just doing what is best for themselves and their families to make do.

I beleive that's what Bonnie and Clyde said??

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Steeplerot


It is not the "illegals" that are affecting the country negativly it is the flawed laws that allowed this mess to start. People are just doing what is best for themselves and their families to make do.

I beleive that's what Bonnie and Clyde said??

And the founders of our country against the "laws" of the british, abraham lincoln about unfair slave "laws" on the books, women who went to vote even though it was against the "law" etc etc etc.

The whole law things is a huge strawman to excuse a direct attack on the culture of a people that have done nothing less then work hard and try to make a living like our ancestors have done.

 

[palehorse]

Would anyone here be surprised to know that she is sitting at home right now wearing a T-shirt that says "Legalize it!" ??

Breaking the law = crime. there is no excuse for doing so unless the law itself is inhumane. In this case, the law states that people wanting to enter the US are perfectly welcome IF they do so legally and properly. There is absolutely nothing inhumane about that law, so there is therefore no justification or excuse for breaking it.

Do you not see the difference between national sovereignty and slavery!?

If Mexicans are uneducated and starving, they should be marching on THEIR OWN capitals demanding changes, not ours!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Would anyone here be surprised to know that she is sitting at home right now wearing a T-shirt that says "Legalize it!" ??

Breaking the law = crime. there is no excuse for doing so unless the law itself is inhumane. In this case, the law states that people wanting to enter the US are perfectly welcome IF they do so legally and peoperly. There is absolutely nothing inhumane about that law, so therefore there is no justification or excuse for breaking the law.

If Mexicans are uneducated and starving, they should be marching in THEIR OWN capital demanding changes, not ours!

There are many times in our countrys history that breaking the law was the only just way to get something done, espically when the law is founded on racism, Our country itself was founded from a blatent breaking of laws, so save it.

Quit spewing hatred for a people that never meant this country any harm and figure out what to do and stop blaming the weakest members of society for our problems as conservatives love doing.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Would anyone here be surprised to know that she is sitting at home right now wearing a T-shirt that says "Legalize it!" ??

Breaking the law = crime. there is no excuse for doing so unless the law itself is inhumane. In this case, the law states that people wanting to enter the US are perfectly welcome IF they do so legally and peoperly. There is absolutely nothing inhumane about that law, so therefore there is no justification or excuse for breaking the law.

If Mexicans are uneducated and starving, they should be marching in THEIR OWN capital demanding changes, not ours!

There are many times in our countrys history that breaking the law was the only just way to get something done, espically when the law is founded on racism, Our country itself was founded from a blatent breaking of laws, so save it.

you speak as though foreign citizens have the right to cause civil disobedience within OUR country.

In all of the examples you've put forth comparing this to slavery, womens' suffrage, and our independence from England, none of them compare to a situation of national sovereignty.

In this case, the laws in question are not racist or inhumane. In fact, forgeigners of any color, sex, or creed are perfectly welcome here IF they go through the legal process!

Do you desire a world without borders? should the USA and every other country disolve into one big borderless blob?

How can you sit there and deny our RIGHT as a nation to say who and who cannot enter our lands?

This has nothing to do with race. I don't care if you're whiter than Wonderbread, if you're not here legally, then GTFO!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

This has nothing to do with race. I don't care if you're whiter than Wonderbread, if you're not here legally, then GTFO!

Not possible anymore, we are long past that point for a lot of reasons and blame all around, so how about adressing reality and lets figure out where to go from here.