Voters vs. Illegal Immigrants. . .

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
1. I am not a socialist so save your crap, I am american and though there is a lot socialist about this country that would make you one too.

2. I have lived in the southwest for decades and where I live now I think we are about the only mainly white people on our block, our neighborhood is FULL of cultures from everywhere, except for the republicans across the street who smoke crack so we avoid, they are the only whites I know of nearby.

Our neighborhood would suck if immigrants were gone, much less be EMPTY. You obviously have no clue about NYC metro area, I would say its far more diverse then CA.

1. how does the fact that America has a lot of socialists make me one too? your self-spoken views make you a socialist, and I'm damn sure that mine dont! lol...

2. Why do you identify your neighbors as "republican crackheads"? odd that.

NYC may be very diverse, but, believe it or not, most (not all) of the immigrants there are legal. Thus, NYC has turned into a cesspool of subculutures. One of which is the hug-everyone socialist subculture that helped get that skank Hillary elected. I have a feeling that you hold some serious rank in that group...

As for me knowing that area, I grew up there and 90% of my family still lives there, so thanks for playing.

back OT: illegals should receive NO benefits other than a free ride home, and we'd even charge them for THAT if I had the choice...

 

[1EZduzit]

So I guess nobody wants to explain to me why the illegals can send their money out of the country and then when they get sick it's untouchable but everything I have is at risk if I should have an accident or get a serious illness???

Anybody got an answer to that? Hell, the Mexiacans can even sneak across the border, get health care at the emergency room and then go back home. Fvck you very much you dumb Gringos. Or they can have a kid here who's now an American and a Mexican citizen.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Remember how you feel about NYC being a "cesspool of subculutures. One of which is the hug-everyone socialist subculture that helped get that skank Hillary elected" next time you try to hump the victims of 9/11s corpses to justify your fascist nationalism you hypocritical racist "america uber alles" redneck scum. As dick the dick cheney says: Go fvck yourself.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Remember how you feel about NYC being a "cesspool of subculutures. One of which is the hug-everyone socialist subculture that helped get that skank Hillary elected" next time you try to hump the victims of 9/11s corpses to justify your fascist nationalism you hypocritical racist "america uber alles" redneck scum. As dick the dick cheney says: Go fvck yourself.

lol, sure thing Hillary!

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

you know what's funny? I AM an immigrant! I was born in Europe, came here legally, learned the language fluently, and chose American citizenship when I turned 18 and joined the Army... One reason I did so was to give back to the country that had done so much for me and my family! My mother maintains her other citizenship to this day, greencard and all!

So I think that I can speak to the entire process of legal immigration fairly well, dont you? Now, how do you think it makes me feel when I see a bunch of border-jumpers breaking the laws that my family had to jump through hoops of fire to follow to the letter?!

AFAIC, if you're not here legally, then GTFO!

Didn't your dad serve in Vietnam? When you said you were born in Germany I assumed it must of been on a mil. base. So your dad married a German woman and you all immigrated here? Isn't that a pretty easy way of becoming American?
Sorry if I'm assuming too much

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So I guess nobody wants to explain to me why the illegals can send their money out of the country and then when they get sick it's untouchable but everything I have is at risk if I should have an accident or get a serious illness???

Anybody got an answer to that? Hell, the Mexiacans can even sneak across the border, get health care at the emergency room and then go back home. Fvck you very much you dumb Gringos. Or they can have a kid here who's now an American and a Mexican citizen.

They are obviously being exploited duh!

/sarcasm

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: palehorse74

you know what's funny? I AM an immigrant! I was born in Europe, came here legally, learned the language fluently, and chose American citizenship when I turned 18 and joined the Army... One reason I did so was to give back to the country that had done so much for me and my family! My mother maintains her other citizenship to this day, greencard and all!

So I think that I can speak to the entire process of legal immigration fairly well, dont you? Now, how do you think it makes me feel when I see a bunch of border-jumpers breaking the laws that my family had to jump through hoops of fire to follow to the letter?!

AFAIC, if you're not here legally, then GTFO!

Didn't your dad serve in Vietnam? When you said you were born in Germany I assumed it must of been on a mil. base. So your dad married a German woman and you all immigrated here? Isn't that a pretty easy way of becoming American?
Sorry if I'm assuming to much

short answer: easier, but not easy. My mother still goes through hell every time she needs to renew, and I'm the one with her helping her out every time.

As for the details you assumed, I'd appreciate it if we didnt discuss those. ty. (nice try though!)

 

[GTKeeper]

Steeplerot,

If you care to address these points, please do, I wonder what your opinion is on the matter.

Point #1
I fully believe that all immigrants can become americans and that they are 'good enough'. It has nothing to do with them being illegal or not. It is not a Racism issue to me.

Point #2
If the government would regulate and check if all these illegal immigrants are paying taxes and ss just like every other American, they can stay IMHO because they are productive members of society and they have a right to be here as able bodies citizens.

Point #3
People like you undermine all the immigrants that have come here legally. And please don't tell me that we have it 'easier' than anyone else. It took my family (and only with the aid of a U.S company) 4 months to get a H1 Visa. And what this meant was standing in line for weeks at a time to talk to a U.S immigration officer in the U.S Embassy. Yes, you stand in line for 12 hours, you get a ticket and come back to stand for 12 hours more the next day based on your place in line the day before.

After that the application for a Green Card was even more stressful, because if you don't get that you have to go back home. We went through that as well.

With the rate of illegals coming into the U.S I seriously doubt they all have the proper paperwork to work here to begin with. A lot of it is under the table.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: palehorse74

you know what's funny? I AM an immigrant! I was born in Europe, came here legally, learned the language fluently, and chose American citizenship when I turned 18 and joined the Army... One reason I did so was to give back to the country that had done so much for me and my family! My mother maintains her other citizenship to this day, greencard and all!

So I think that I can speak to the entire process of legal immigration fairly well, dont you? Now, how do you think it makes me feel when I see a bunch of border-jumpers breaking the laws that my family had to jump through hoops of fire to follow to the letter?!

AFAIC, if you're not here legally, then GTFO!

Didn't your dad serve in Vietnam? When you said you were born in Germany I assumed it must of been on a mil. base. So your dad married a German woman and you all immigrated here? Isn't that a pretty easy way of becoming American?
Sorry if I'm assuming too much

Nice catch, yeah he is one step away from being a border jumper himself if it wasent for a marriage.

No wonder he is so fond of unjust wars, he wouldnt be a american if it wasent for his mother taking advantage of the lucky situation and had a immigration loophole, hypocricy at its finest. And he immediatly wants to piss all over those who wanted the same chance as his mother.

Wonder if they are still even married, that would be pretty funny as he would only be here on a technicallity as he bashes those pretty much in the same boat.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So I guess nobody wants to explain to me why the illegals can send their money out of the country and then when they get sick it's untouchable but everything I have is at risk if I should have an accident or get a serious illness???

Anybody got an answer to that? Hell, the Mexiacans can even sneak across the border, get health care at the emergency room and then go back home. Fvck you very much you dumb Gringos. Or they can have a kid here who's now an American and a Mexican citizen.

They are obviously being exploited duh!

/sarcasm

Yeah, and if I get cancer I'll sell everything I have and turn it into cash, get treated and then move to another country or give the money away as cash to my kids. Why should I care about a system that doesn't give a crap about me.

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Our neighborhood would suck if immigrants were gone, much less be EMPTY. You obviously have no clue about NYC metro area, I would say its far more diverse then CA, and you know what? Its all the better for it too, I would much rather live in a thriving community of different languages and flavors as this is the REAL america imo, this is how we all started, this is where the action is and people are really doing something with themselves moving up.[/quote]


Now there is one part of your post's Ill agree with, I was born in LA and it has changed allot, and by and large socially I would say for the better. I LOVE the diversity here, I actually kinda like being a racial minority it adds quite unexpectedly the general feel of the town as it makes it a lot more anonymous. That aside I feel that the immigration issue as it stands is on a sheer matter of numbers quite out of hand. I do have to compete with people of illegal status for work at this point. I feel the strain and its real. I can only imagine the strain others are under with family?s, and don?t think I mean "whites" I mean everyone, legal, illegal, interstellar space alien, everyone. I think Im beginning to get where you are coming from, I think we have allot of the same feelings. I too hate racists, especially from my own race (white for the record) It smacks of fear and ignorance. It makes me see the same quality?s (or lack thereof) that exist im myself.
The problem is that this problem has far surpassed the issue of race and fallen into the issue of sheer numbers. Numbers like falling wages (though certainly not a immigration exclusive topic) Overcrowding in schools, hospitals, public transport ect. My mother was a teacher in LAUSD for 35 years, Im in agreement with her that the immigration issue has decimated our public school system. (again not the only reason but the largest one)
So it boils down to this, when dose a citizen of any givin country have a right to have an opinion in contrast to a foreign national population when that population becomes a burden on their own.
When dose someone have the right to say, geeze we better put a stop to this until we have a more coherent plan on this immigration issue? Do we continue right along with the same behaviors? that got us in the position we are in? Obviously I have more questions than answers, but this situation is just out of hand. Bringing the race card to the table as the major issue I think is just an easy escape, a cop-out, an excuse. Yes racism exists, is it the primary issue for a citizen of the United States? well yes for some, but not for me. To lump anyone who is for putting an end or at least applying the brakes to this issue as a racist is just wrong,
Jax

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: palehorse74

you know what's funny? I AM an immigrant! I was born in Europe, came here legally, learned the language fluently, and chose American citizenship when I turned 18 and joined the Army... One reason I did so was to give back to the country that had done so much for me and my family! My mother maintains her other citizenship to this day, greencard and all!

So I think that I can speak to the entire process of legal immigration fairly well, dont you? Now, how do you think it makes me feel when I see a bunch of border-jumpers breaking the laws that my family had to jump through hoops of fire to follow to the letter?!

AFAIC, if you're not here legally, then GTFO!

Didn't your dad serve in Vietnam? When you said you were born in Germany I assumed it must of been on a mil. base. So your dad married a German woman and you all immigrated here? Isn't that a pretty easy way of becoming American?
Sorry if I'm assuming too much

Nice catch, yeah he is one step away from being a border jumper himself if it wasent for a marriage.

No wonder he is so fond of unjust wars, he wouldnt be a american if it wasent for his mother taking advantage of the lucky situation and had a immigration loophole, hypocricy at its finest. And he immediatly wants to piss all over those who wanted the same chance as his mother.

Wonder if they are still even married, that would be pretty funny as he would only be here on a technicallity as he bashes those pretty much in the same boat.

They've been married 33 years and counting... nice try though.

Bottom line: My mother and I came to America legally. I had dual-citizenship until age 18 when I had to choose one. By volunteering for the Army, I made that decision happily! Since then, I have dedicated my entire fvcking life to fighting for this country, and I'm giving back a little for all of the opportunities this country has given my family and I.

That said, every time an immigrant comes here ILLEGALLY, they are basically sh*tting on the very values and laws I've sworn to uphold and protect.

You wouldnt know anything about any of these concepts Steeple. In that I have no doubts whatsoever.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Steeplerot,

If you care to address these points, please do, I wonder what your opinion is on the matter.

Point #1
I fully believe that all immigrants can become americans and that they are 'good enough'. It has nothing to do with them being illegal or not. It is not a Racism issue to me.

I do not disagree with this, but I do not see labeling them illegals when it was our poorly layed out unrealistic laws that were created by racism that made the problem i n the first place, it is a crap position to be in as a mexican but it was inevitable becasue of our laws. They were just doing the best for their familys and have not caused us much trouble imo, regardless of what people try to say a lot have risks there freedom to come here in the first place and maintain false SS numbers just to be productive, AND pay taxes they know they will never get returns for.

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Point #2
If the government would regulate and check if all these illegal immigrants are paying taxes and ss just like every other American, they can stay IMHO because they are productive members of society and they have a right to be here as able bodies citizens.

I agree, if they have clean records and are productive it would be foolish to drive them out, a fine of some sort would be a good idea, but I could more see the employers over the past few years deserving of the fine more then the worker, I am not sure of this yet.

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Point #3
People like you undermine all the immigrants that have come here legally. And please don't tell me that we have it 'easier' than anyone else. It took my family (and only with the aid of a U.S company) 4 months to get a H1 Visa. And what this meant was standing in line for weeks at a time to talk to a U.S immigration officer in the U.S Embassy. Yes, you stand in line for 12 hours, you get a ticket and come back to stand for 12 hours more the next day based on your place in line the day before.

After that the application for a Green Card was even more stressful, because if you don't get that you have to go back home. We went through that as well.

With the rate of illegals coming into the U.S I seriously doubt they all have the proper paperwork to work here to begin with. A lot of it is under the table.

A lot is under the table, but then a lot also have green cards and falsified IDs they have been forced to get, it is not a fair situation but the law itself is a unfair and as I said racist OLD policy, there is a great wrong done in the past, and I am not sure if a I am sorry is enough to correct those that did go through proper process over the years, but legal immigrants have had a easier time in a lot of ways then someone always fearing deportation and having to use false ID's they have also been through hell in a way, to do nothing less then be productive members of society.

It is not fair to just about anyone and IS a big problem, but the chest thumping and discrimination over people here to work looking for the same chance the rest of the immigrants here had is hypocritical on many levels, I agree that none of this is fair, but if you get down to the law that made this, it is obvious why, it is straight from the KKK, trouble down the road is inevitable when people like that drive lawmaking, now we are in a real mess.

 

[AnandTech Moderator]

Please keep your replies on topic and away from the personal attacks, or this thread will be locked.

Thank you.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
A lot is under the table, but then a lot also have green cards and falsified IDs they have been forced to get, it is not a fair situation but the law itself is a unfair and as I said racist OLD policy, there is a great wrong done in the past, and I am not sure if a I am sorry is enough to correct those that did go through proper process over the years, but legal immigrants have had a easier time in a lot of ways then someone always fearing deportation and having to use false ID's they have also been through hell in a way, to do nothing less then be productive memebrs.

you just sat there and justified every crime they commit... amazing.

are crackheads just as "justified" when they mug someone or rob a liquir store? after all, it's just not fair that they're addicted! it's not their fault! IT'S THE LAW-ABIDING WHITE MAN'S FAULT!

right?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
A lot is under the table, but then a lot also have green cards and falsified IDs they have been forced to get, it is not a fair situation but the law itself is a unfair and as I said racist OLD policy, there is a great wrong done in the past, and I am not sure if a I am sorry is enough to correct those that did go through proper process over the years, but legal immigrants have had a easier time in a lot of ways then someone always fearing deportation and having to use false ID's they have also been through hell in a way, to do nothing less then be productive memebrs.

you just sat there and justified every crime they commit... amazing.

are crackheads just as "justified" when they mug someone or rob a liquir store? after all, it's just not fair that they're addicted! it's not their fault! IT'S THE LAW-ABIDING WHITE MAN'S FAULT!

right?

Sometimes people have to break the law to do the right thing, sorry if you cannot deal with that simple concept, I know someone starving to death who stole food would deserve floggings in your eyes also. It's not right, but when the system is broken people break the law, to carry on with life.

People had underground railroads to free the slaves also, do you condemn them for knowingly breaking the "law"?

Sure there are speed limits, but noone in reality follows them as they have buisness to take care of.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Steeplerot,

If you care to address these points, please do, I wonder what your opinion is on the matter.

Point #1
I fully believe that all immigrants can become americans and that they are 'good enough'. It has nothing to do with them being illegal or not. It is not a Racism issue to me.

I do not disagree with this, but I do not see labeling them illegals when it was our poorly layed out unrealistic laws that were created by racism that made the problem i n the first place, it is a crap position to be in as a mexican but it was inevitable becasue of our laws. They were just doing the best for their familys and have not caused us much trouble imo, regardless of what people try to say a lot have risks there freedom to come here in the first place and maintain false SS numbers just to be productive, AND pay taxes they know they will never get returns for.

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Point #2
If the government would regulate and check if all these illegal immigrants are paying taxes and ss just like every other American, they can stay IMHO because they are productive members of society and they have a right to be here as able bodies citizens.

I agree, if they have clean records and are productive it would be foolish to drive them out, a fine of some sort would be a good idea, but I could more see the employers over the past few years deserving of the fine more then the worker, I am not sure of this yet.

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Point #3
People like you undermine all the immigrants that have come here legally. And please don't tell me that we have it 'easier' than anyone else. It took my family (and only with the aid of a U.S company) 4 months to get a H1 Visa. And what this meant was standing in line for weeks at a time to talk to a U.S immigration officer in the U.S Embassy. Yes, you stand in line for 12 hours, you get a ticket and come back to stand for 12 hours more the next day based on your place in line the day before.

After that the application for a Green Card was even more stressful, because if you don't get that you have to go back home. We went through that as well.

With the rate of illegals coming into the U.S I seriously doubt they all have the proper paperwork to work here to begin with. A lot of it is under the table.

A lot is under the table, but then a lot also have green cards and falsified IDs they have been forced to get, it is not a fair situation but the law itself is a unfair and as I said racist OLD policy, there is a great wrong done in the past, and I am not sure if a I am sorry is enough to correct those that did go through proper process over the years, but legal immigrants have had a easier time in a lot of ways then someone always fearing deportation and having to use false ID's they have also been through hell in a way, to do nothing less then be productive members of society.

It is not fair to just about anyone and IS a big problem, but the chest thumping and discrimination over people here to work looking for the same chance the rest of the immigrants here had is hypocritical on many levels, I agree that none of this is fair, but if you get down to the law that made this, it is obvious why, it is straight from the KKK, trouble down the road is inevitable when people like that drive lawmaking, now we are in a real mess.

Wait wait wait.... no one is FORCING anyone to do ANYTHING. These people came here VOLUNTARILY. And I dont believe for a second they had any tougher of a time potentially than and LEGALLY processed immigrant. I am not saying they have had a free ride, but they did chose to come here as did I.

 

[tommywishbone]

All millionaires & billionaires love illegal immigrants... they are in charge. It can not be stopped.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
A lot is under the table, but then a lot also have green cards and falsified IDs they have been forced to get, it is not a fair situation but the law itself is a unfair and as I said racist OLD policy, there is a great wrong done in the past, and I am not sure if a I am sorry is enough to correct those that did go through proper process over the years, but legal immigrants have had a easier time in a lot of ways then someone always fearing deportation and having to use false ID's they have also been through hell in a way, to do nothing less then be productive memebrs.

you just sat there and justified every crime they commit... amazing.

are crackheads just as "justified" when they mug someone or rob a liquir store? after all, it's just not fair that they're addicted! it's not their fault! IT'S THE LAW-ABIDING WHITE MAN'S FAULT!

right?

Sometimes people have to break the law to do the right thing, sorry if you cannot deal with that simple concept, I know someone starving to death who stole food would deserve floggings in your eyes also.

You seem to be missing the point here: My heart goes out to every foreigner who desires to be in America and have the opportunities we have. BUT, that does not condone any criminal behavior on their part! So I understand and feel empathy twoards the illegals who must be sent home, but such is life AFAIC. I sincerely hope that the legal process allows them ot get here eventually. If not, then I'm sorry, but that is just life!

So I hope they're treated humanely, and I hope their own governments start helping to fix the situation as well. BUT, I will not excuse criminal behavior under any circumstances. Nobody should be above the law. That includes those in power as well as those with none.

The law is the law, and it's long overdue that we crack down on the criminals and end this mess before it gets worse.

The difference between this and the underground railroad is that simply keeping them out of our country is NOT "inhumane" and "unjust," while slavery was both of those things. Do you not see and admit to the difference?

 

[Steeplerot]

Voluntarily is not a realistic way to put something when you are poor and just a few miles away there are jobs and money, it sooner or later becomes a nessesity to feed your family.

Doing what is right by your family has no borders. How long would you stare across a arbritrary line knowing so much oppurtunity was there before you swallowed your pride and moved?

You do what you have to do to make best, if it means risking getting deported you at least KNOW you tried to do what you could.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
A lot is under the table, but then a lot also have green cards and falsified IDs they have been forced to get, it is not a fair situation but the law itself is a unfair and as I said racist OLD policy, there is a great wrong done in the past, and I am not sure if a I am sorry is enough to correct those that did go through proper process over the years, but legal immigrants have had a easier time in a lot of ways then someone always fearing deportation and having to use false ID's they have also been through hell in a way, to do nothing less then be productive memebrs.

you just sat there and justified every crime they commit... amazing.

are crackheads just as "justified" when they mug someone or rob a liquir store? after all, it's just not fair that they're addicted! it's not their fault! IT'S THE LAW-ABIDING WHITE MAN'S FAULT!

right?

Sometimes people have to break the law to do the right thing, sorry if you cannot deal with that simple concept, I know someone starving to death who stole food would deserve floggings in your eyes also. It's not right, but when the system is broken people break the law, to carry on with life.

People had underground railroads to free the slaves also, do you condemn them for knowingly breaking the "law"?

Sure there are speed limits, but noone in reality follows them as they have buisness to take care of.

So in your view it justified for an illegal to sneak around the country like a husband cheating on a wife and whore themselves out. I beleive I mentioned that there is a shortage of able bodied workers in Mexico, are you trying to say they can't feed themselves in Mexico?

Maybe we can send them to Iraq to do our fighting too? I mean they do come here and do the "dirty work" that most Amercians aren't willing to do.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Voluntarily is not a realistic way to put something when you are poor and just a few miles away there are jobs and money, it sooner or later becomes a nessesity to feed your family.

Doing what is right by your family has no borders. How long would you stare across a arbritrary line knowing so much oppurtunity was there before you swallowed your pride and moved?

You do what you have to do to make best, if it means risking getting deported you at least KNOW you tried to do what you could.

yes, but when that directly and negatively effects the livelihoods and well-being of those on the other side of that "arbitrary line," then your actions lose all justification. you actions them become overtly criminal and negative.

 

[Steeplerot]

There is 0 proof that immigration has ever done anything for this country but make it stronger, EVERY DAMN TIME ITS THE SAME FEARMONGERING you once again are not looking at the big picture to use "legal" as a copout.

Are you telling me that since the 80s we have not grown as far as our riches and higher standard of living? A lot of that is due to mexican labor.

The immigrants have helped us and been pretty well behaved, go look up irish riots sometime when they came here, there was a lot more reason for fearmongering, but the fact is that we intergrated them by making them legal citizens and not half-assed having to scramble for fake ss numbers to work so they chilled and became part of america.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper


Wait wait wait.... no one is FORCING anyone to do ANYTHING. These people came here VOLUNTARILY. And I dont believe for a second they had any tougher of a time potentially than and LEGALLY processed immigrant. I am not saying they have had a free ride, but they did chose to come here as did I.

Why should they get for nothing what you worked your butt off to get? They shouldn't and the people who employ them should be have all their property taken away from them just like a drug dealer does when caught.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
A lot is under the table, but then a lot also have green cards and falsified IDs they have been forced to get, it is not a fair situation but the law itself is a unfair and as I said racist OLD policy, there is a great wrong done in the past, and I am not sure if a I am sorry is enough to correct those that did go through proper process over the years, but legal immigrants have had a easier time in a lot of ways then someone always fearing deportation and having to use false ID's they have also been through hell in a way, to do nothing less then be productive memebrs.

you just sat there and justified every crime they commit... amazing.

are crackheads just as "justified" when they mug someone or rob a liquir store? after all, it's just not fair that they're addicted! it's not their fault! IT'S THE LAW-ABIDING WHITE MAN'S FAULT!

right?

Sometimes people have to break the law to do the right thing, sorry if you cannot deal with that simple concept, I know someone starving to death who stole food would deserve floggings in your eyes also. It's not right, but when the system is broken people break the law, to carry on with life.

People had underground railroads to free the slaves also, do you condemn them for knowingly breaking the "law"?

Sure there are speed limits, but noone in reality follows them as they have buisness to take care of.

So in your view it justified for an illegal to sneak around the country like a husband cheating on a wife and whore themselves out. I beleive I mentioned that there is a shortage of able bodied workers in Mexico, are you trying to say they can't feed themselves in Mexico?

Maybe we can send them to Iraq to do our fighting too? I mean they do come here and do the "dirty work" that most Amercians aren't willing to do.

FACT: the Texas National Guard is made up of primarily spanish-speaking non-citizens who joined with the hope that serving may gain them their citizenship. I've even witnessed them speaking spanish in their large formations; and spoke with several of their white members who claimed there is reverse-racism, throoughout their units. The higher-ranking latinos prevent any of the white members from going beyond E4 rank!

crazy eh? So they ARE fighting our wars, trust me. They came and relieved us in our sector in Afghanistan, and the running joke is that we had just spent 12 months teaching English to the locals, and now they were going to have to learn Spanish to get along! Hint: there are not many Spanish-to-Pashtu translaters around! ... DOH!