Voter ID

[cybrsage]

Yet the data disagree with you. Minorities are statistically less likely to hold a valid photo ID. It is a fact, whether you understand it or not.

Someone's choice to not hold a valid photo ID is only the fault of the person making that choice.

 

[cybrsage]

The Supreme Court, in the Indiana case IIRC, already recognized that such laws do, in fact, disenfranchise a segment of the population. They simply decided that this was not an adequate basis for overriding the state's right to manage its own elections, given the special measures put in place by Indiana to mitigate this disenfranchisement. Of course you already know this, so I question why you are pretending otherwise.

It is no more voter disenfranchisement than requiring a person actually vote to vote...whether it be filling out an absentee ballot or travelling to a polling place.

If you wish to say those items are disenfranchisement, then voter id requirement is also disenfranchisement, since it is no worse than either of those. If you are to claim either of them are not, then neither is a voter id requirement.

 

[Bowfinger]

Someone's choice to not hold a valid photo ID is only the fault of the person making that choice.

You are welcome to your opinion. The FACT remains that photo voter ID laws do disproportionately disenfranchise minorities, as well as the elderly, poor, and students, while having no material impact on vote fraud.

 

[cybrsage]

You are welcome to your opinion. The FACT remains that photo voter ID laws do disproportionately disenfranchise minorities, as well as the elderly, poor, and students, while having no material impact on vote fraud.

The same FACT remains that forcing people to actually vote for themselves (instead of using a proxy) does disproportionately disenfranchise minorities, as well as the elderly, poor, and students, while having no material impact on vote fraud.

 

[Bowfinger]

It is no more voter disenfranchisement than requiring a person actually vote to vote...whether it be filling out an absentee ballot or travelling to a polling place.

If you wish to say those items are disenfranchisement, then voter id requirement is also disenfranchisement, since it is no worse than either of those. If you are to claim either of them are not, then neither is a voter id requirement.

You stating 1 = 3 does not make it so. There are real and significant impediments to obtaining an official photo ID that do not apply to filling out an absentee ballot or traveling to the polls. This was also covered in previous threads. Perhaps you also need to read one of them.

 

[Bowfinger]

The same FACT remains that forcing people to actually vote for themselves (instead of using a proxy) does disproportionately disenfranchise minorities, as well as the elderly, poor, and students, while having no material impact on vote fraud.

Sorry, I'm unable to find a coherent point in that garble. What, exactly, are you trying to say?

 

[cybrsage]

You stating 1 = 3 does not make it so. There are real and significant impediments to obtaining an official photo ID that do not apply to filling out an absentee ballot or traveling to the polls. This was also covered in previous threads. Perhaps you also need to read one of them.

There are real and significant impediments to filling out an absentee ballot and in travelling to the polls. Just because you pretend that one kind of disenfranchisement of the poor, elderly, and minorities is perfectly fine but another is not does not magically make it so.

Why do you hate the poor, elderly, and minorities so much?

 

[cybrsage]

Sorry, I'm unable to find a coherent point in that garble. What, exactly, are you trying to say?

Only the same type thing you are trying to say, using your own words and syntax. If it is garbled to you, then you cannot understand your own posts.

 

[Bowfinger]

There are real and significant impediments to filling out an absentee ballot and in travelling to the polls. Just because you pretend that one kind of disenfranchisement of the poor, elderly, and minorities is perfectly fine but another is not does not magically make it so.

Why do you hate the poor, elderly, and minorities so much?

In other words, you are no longer even going to pretend to make a valid argument, and are going to toss out whatever absurdity pops into your head. Presumably you're hoping most people can't tell the difference. You are wrong.

 

[cybrsage]

In other words, you are no longer even going to pretend to make a valid argument, and are going to toss out whatever absurdity pops into your head. Presumably you're hoping most people can't tell the difference. You are wrong.

You are upset that I copy your absurdity? Now that you realize what you said was absurd, will you admit it?

 

[Bowfinger]

Only the same type thing you are trying to say, using your own words and syntax. If it is garbled to you, then you cannot understand your own posts.

Nope, another logic fail. I say the sky is blue. You respond, using my "own words and style", the grass is blue. My comment makes sense. Yours is NONsense.

 

[Bowfinger]

You are upset that I copy your absurdity? Now that you realize what you said was absurd, will you admit it?

Nope, another logic fail. I say the sky is blue. You respond, using my "own words and style", the grass is blue. My comment makes sense. Yours is NONsense.

 

[cybrsage]

You say any form of disenfranchisement that affects only the poor, elderly, and minorities is wrong and should be stopped (paraphrasing you).

I show a form of disenfranchisement that affects only the poor, elderly, and minorities and you say it is perfectly fine.

Notice the problem yet? Not sure I can get much more specific.

 

[Bowfinger]

You say any form of disenfranchisement that affects only the poor, elderly, and minorities is wrong and should be stopped (paraphrasing you).

I show a form of disenfranchisement that affects only the poor, elderly, and minorities and you say it is perfectly fine.

Notice the problem yet? Not sure I can get much more specific.

Yes, the problem is you are being dishonest, attacking straw man positions instead of directly and accurately addressing actual positions. You do that constantly when cornered in debate, duhverting to lies and boring semantics games to avoid admitting you are incapable of rebutting contrary facts and positions.

 

[lotus503]

Yes, the problem is you are being dishonest, attacking straw man positions instead of directly and accurately addressing actual positions. You do that constantly when cornered in debate, duhverting to lies and boring semantics games to avoid admitting you are incapable of rebutting contrary facts and positions.

QFT! :thumbsup:

 

[nehalem256]

Still waiting for you to explain why having a job is a requirement for voting.

1.) I assume they do have a job, just that it is under the table. If you are working illegally and not paying your income tax, I have no problem with denying you the vote.

2.) If they dont have a job, because they cant be assed to get an ID I have no problems denying them to right to vote, based on there clear position of fucking society over.

 

[nehalem256]

You are welcome to your opinion. The FACT remains that photo voter ID laws do disproportionately disenfranchise minorities, as well as the elderly, poor, and students, while having no material impact on vote fraud.

Still waiting...

Explain why
1.) Minorities dont need jobs
or
2.) Minorities can get jobs without ID.

 

[lotus503]

1.) I assume they do have a job, just that it is under the table. If you are working illegally and not paying your income tax, I have no problem with denying you the vote.

2.) If they dont have a job, because they cant be assed to get an ID I have no problems denying them to right to vote, based on there clear position of fucking society over.

I do have a problem with that.

voting requirement is based on citizenship not employement.

Bigger issue is seniors who some of for years dont drive or have use for the one ID they did have a drivers license.

When they allow that to expire because of non use in a lot of states they are required to show a birth certificate that they can no longer aquire, to get a valid ID.

We should be making it easier for people to vote rather than more difficult.

Until I see evidence of voter fraud swaying the outcome of elections I consider it a NON issue.

I do agree with paper ballots.

 

[Bowfinger]

Still waiting...

Explain why
1.) Minorities dont need jobs
or
2.) Minorities can get jobs without ID.

Still waiting? Good. Hold your breath and stamp your feet while you're at it. Maybe while you're waiting you can think about the fact that fewer than half of all Americans are currently employed. Once you figure out how that can be, you may also figure out why your two "points" are not only irrelevant, but mind-numbingly stupid. Once again, your insular, white bread life is not at all representative of the broad cross section of people and personal situations across America. Your lack of life experience and bigotry against those unlike you in no way revokes others Constitutional right to vote.

 

[nehalem256]

Still waiting? Good. Hold your breath and stamp your feet while you're at it. Maybe while you're waiting you can think about the fact that fewer than half of all Americans are currently employed. Once you figure out how that can be, you may also figure out why your two "points" are not only irrelevant, but mind-numbingly stupid. Once again, your insular, white bread life is not at all representative of the broad cross section of people and personal situations across America. Your lack of life experience and bigotry against those unlike you in no way revokes others Constitutional right to vote.

Civilization is not just about handing "rights" over to people. In order to have a functional civilization there must be reciprocal obligations.

Minorities have no less need of ID than white people.

What you are saying is you have no problem with minorities getting their money through less the legal means and that we should still allow them to participate in our Democracy.

 

[Bowfinger]

I see you didn't bother to consider why over half of all Americans are currently not working. Pity. It could really help you remedy your ignorance on this subject.

Civilization is not just about handing "rights" over to people. In order to have a functional civilization there must be reciprocal obligations.

You are welcome to your opinion. Once again, unfortunately for you (and fortunately for America), our Constitution does not recognize your right to disenfranchise others based on your ignorance or bigotry.

Minorities have no less need of ID than white people.

Well, at least there's one thing you got right. White people do not need an ID any more -- or less -- than minorities. It's just a statistical fact that minorities are less likely to have current photo IDs. There are, however, many whites who also lack IDs. My elderly mother is one of them, something you might understand had you actually got off your butt to read the thread I bumped for you.

What you are saying is you have no problem with minorities getting their money through less the legal means and that we should still allow them to participate in our Democracy.

You're lying. I am saying no such thing. The fact that you insist I am very strongly suggests you are a racist. It is the only logical explanation I can see for someone so vehemently insisting, even after being repeatedly corrected, that the principle reason for minorities lacking ID is illegal employment. Had you actually bothered to read the other threads -- or even to close you mouth, open your mind, and think -- you might have a clue how so many Americans get along perfectly fine without photo IDs, while not taking a single dime of illegal or unreported income.

 

[cybrsage]

Yes, the problem is you are being dishonest, attacking straw man positions instead of directly and accurately addressing actual positions. You do that constantly when cornered in debate, duhverting to lies and boring semantics games to avoid admitting you are incapable of rebutting contrary facts and positions.

You are claiming that no one is disenfranchised by having to go to a polling place or obtain, fill out, and return an absentee ballot. At the same time you are claiming that hordes of people are disenfranchised by having to go and get an ID.

Then you claim it is my fault you hold such an indefensible position...

 

[Bowfinger]

You are claiming that no one is disenfranchised by having to go to a polling place or obtain, fill out, and return an absentee ballot. At the same time you are claiming that hordes of people are disenfranchised by having to go and get an ID.

Then you claim it is my fault you hold such an indefensible position...

You're lying again. If you are so incapable of presenting others' arguments accurately, perhaps you should learn to either respond directly to actual, unaltered quotes ... or STFU.

 

[a777pilot]

Well, I tried.

It seems that none of you wish to debate the real issue.

I'm sorry I started this thread.

I fear for my country if this is any indication of how the general public sees this issue.

 

[Ausm]

Well, I tried.

It seems that none of you wish to debate the real issue.

I'm sorry I started this thread.

I fear for my country if this is any indication of how the general public sees this issue.

We are sorry that you didn't hear what you wanted to beating this dead horse yet AGAIN....