Voter Fraud!

[Pr0d1gy]

Voter fraud not found, for either side.

 

[Bowfinger]

This was an interesting article on the topic: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/u...eyond-identification.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


If anything is an avenue for fraud, it would be via absentee ballots more than in-person.

This has been called out in every single thread we've had about these RNC voter suppression laws. The suppression apologists don't care, because they are lying. They aren't actually concerned about voting fraud. They are, however, concerned about winning elections, and they know disenfranchising so many elderly, poor, minority, and student voters is a good way for "their side" to win. The value their party more than democracy.

 

[Brainonska511]

Notice the 2 guys that responded to your post missed talking about buying the gun thing? They always do.

Because buying a gun and voting are the same thing in a republic

 

[nehalem256]

Because buying a gun and voting are the same thing in a democracy

Gun ownership is a right that "shall not be infringed". Whereas voting is not.

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

You don't need an ID to buy a gun (in most states) if you buy a used gun from an individual that doesn't have an FFL.

 

[Jhhnn]

Gun ownership is a right that "shall not be infringed". Whereas voting is not.

In no way does the need to have ID & pass a background check to buy retail guns infringe upon the right to bear arms, given the availability in the unregulated secondary market. Anybody can acquire weapons in that fashion, never crossing the threshold of a retail firearms dealer.

OTOH, there is no alternative way to vote.

The right to vote is implicit in the 15th, 19th & 24th amendments, along with the Civil rights acts. It's also explicit in many State constitutions.

You make the same shameful argument that anti-democratic forces have used for generations.

 

[nehalem256]

In no way does the need to have ID & pass a background check to buy retail guns infringe upon the right to bear arms, given the availability in the unregulated secondary market. Anybody can acquire weapons in that fashion, never crossing the threshold of a retail firearms dealer.

OTOH, there is no alternative way to vote.

The right to vote is implicit in the 15th, 19th & 24th amendments, along with the Civil rights acts. It's also explicit in many State constitutions.

The 15th, 19th, and 24th amendments make it clear you cannot abridge the right to vote based on race, gender, or age(>18). The fact that we have repeatedly had to pass amendments to guarantee the right to vote to certain people makes it pretty clear that the "right" to vote is abridgeable.

No where is the right to vote without proving your identity guaranteed.

 

[QuantumPion]

So the number one argument against photo ID's for voting is that poor people are so poor they can't get ID's? Even though photo ID's can be given for free? Am I missing something?

 

[nehalem256]

So the number one argument against photo ID's for voting is that poor people are so poor they can't get ID's? Even though photo ID's can be given for free? Am I missing something?

Funny how photo id is also largely required to get a job. Kinda explains why they are poor though.

I propose using the same standards for voting is obtaining employment

http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/backgroundcheck/a/background_2.htm

Of course this actually raises the id requirements as a driver's license alone is insufficient id for that.

 

[fskimospy]

Funny how photo id is also largely required to get a job. Kinda explains why they are poor though.

I propose using the same standards for voting is obtaining employment

http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/backgroundcheck/a/background_2.htm

Of course this actually raises the id requirements as a driver's license alone is insufficient id for that.

I propose we only limit the right to vote in ways that are necessary to ensure the integrity of the vote. Radical idea, I know.

That would be too sensible however, so American conservatives are clearly going to flip their shit about it. While we're defending the vote against non-existent threats though I also believe we should unicorn proof our voting booths, as a unicorn attack would severely disrupt the voting process.

 

[kage69]

So the number one argument against photo ID's for voting is that poor people are so poor they can't get ID's? Even though photo ID's can be given for free? Am I missing something?

Sounds like you're missing the fact that at the same time these posers are demanding IDs to be obtained, they are also closing DMVs (particularly in Dem districts) and reducing the budgets and manpower of others. In the case of that Koch holster Walker, the funds released from closures and cuts were then sent to DMVs in GOP districts to lengthen operating hours.

The GOP could at least be semi-credible here if they were addressing the other methods of voter fraud that actually exist (absentee ballots) and weren't actively trying to influence the numbers of IDs based on party affiliation.

This party over country bullshit is really getting old, makes me glad the GOP is withering away.

 

[monovillage]

Because buying a gun and voting are the same thing in a republic

They're both rights, unlike driving.

 

[QuantumPion]

Sounds like you're missing the fact that at the same time these posers are demanding IDs to be obtained, they are also closing DMVs (particularly in Dem districts) and reducing the budgets and manpower of others. In the case of that Koch holster Walker, the funds released from closures and cuts were then sent to DMVs in GOP districts to lengthen operating hours.

The GOP could at least be semi-credible here if they were addressing the other methods of voter fraud that actually exist (absentee ballots) and weren't actively trying to influence the numbers of IDs based on party affiliation.

This party over country bullshit is really getting old, makes me glad the GOP is withering away.

...what? So your argument against photo IDs is that republicans are closing DMV's, preventing democrats from getting photo IDs? Seriously? Really? Are you that fucking retarded? You aren't even in 9/11 truther kook territory, you are in like, history channel ancient aliens land.

 

[spacejamz]

So the number one argument against photo ID's for voting is that poor people are so poor they can't get ID's? Even though photo ID's can be given for free? Am I missing something?

But you need photo ID to get welfare benefits which I am pretty sure they are taking advantage of....strange, isn't it???

 

[cybrsage]

Can one of the loony libs who posted in this thread explain how to show in person voter fraud is happening when there is no reliable way to verify the person voting is who he says he is?

 

[cybrsage]

I propose we only limit the right to vote in ways that are necessary to ensure the integrity of the vote. Radical idea, I know.

Good, so you now support voter ID laws. Nice change of heart!

 

[Paul98]

needing ID to vote will do NOTHING to prevent voter fraud. The people defending this as a way to prevent voter fraud are idiots.

They make up a problem that doesn't exist. Come up with something that does nothing to solve this made up problem, yet will cause large scale voter suppression.

 

[nehalem256]

Can one of the loony libs who posted in this thread explain how to show in person voter fraud is happening when there is no reliable way to verify the person voting is who he says he is?

Does it matter. Even when I present them with evidence of voter fraud they deny it.

IF they were not liberals I would wonder if they thought Obama was born in Kenya.

 

[Brainonska511]

Does it matter. Even when I present them with evidence of voter fraud they deny it.

Link to evidence of in-person voter fraud. eg: someone pretending to be someone else in order to vote an extra time.

 

[umbrella39]

Can one of the loony libs who posted in this thread explain how to show in person voter fraud is happening when there is no reliable way to verify the person voting is who he says he is?

Sandorski put it best earlier in this thread:

"The lack of confirmed voter fraud allegations shows just how prevalent the problem is!"

There is no senate race!!! Projo

 

[cybrsage]

Can one of the loony libs who posted in this thread explain how to show in person voter fraud is happening when there is no reliable way to verify the person voting is who he says he is?

Link to evidence of in-person voter fraud. eg: someone pretending to be someone else in order to vote an extra time.

Can you answer my quoted question, since you are demanding proof?

 

[trenchfoot]

If voter fraud was obvious and rampant, both parties would be working in concert to correct the problem. That only the Repubs are enacting these laws already says so much about their true intent in this matter. Add to this the fact that in every instance, the way in which these Repub enacted laws are crafted are amazingly similar in the way it disadvantages voters who lean left. I don't why we're still arguing this point when it's plain as day what these exclusively Repub enacted laws are doing. I've seen every single Rove inspired trick being used to support these unfair laws and the complete absence of compassion and regard by the righties for those voters that would be diadvantaged in any way.

The Repubs who enacted these laws should have gone out of their way to make certain that these laws did not hinder in any way possible the disinfranchisement of voters. They could have easily included conditions in these laws to that effect. Obviously, they haven't. So then, WHY NOT? So far, any explanation that I've encountered from the righties have been tinged with dishonest intent and a clear penchant for frantic grasping at straw.

I've not seen a single convincing argument for why the Repubs left out language that would have prevented anyone from being disadvantaged, or better yet, language that would have made it even easier for those who found it difficult to comply with these newly enacted laws.

Until the Repubs have cast the shroud of suspicious behavior behind them by going out of their way to service those they have disadvantaged or even appeared to have disadvantaged, they will be kept to task and be cast in a glaring bad light.

The Repubs gave themselves zero wiggle room from this one.

 

[fskimospy]

Link to evidence of in-person voter fraud. eg: someone pretending to be someone else in order to vote an extra time.

They can't, although it would be super easy to find. All you need to look for is double votes under one name. Amazingly enough that basically never happens.

Probably just a sign of how amazingly devious the fraudsters are.

 

[berzerker60]

Can one of the loony libs who posted in this thread explain how to show in person voter fraud is happening when there is no reliable way to verify the person voting is who he says he is?

Yes, and I've answered it before. Person A wants to steal Person B's identity. Person A shows up, votes, leaves. Person B shows up, wants to vote, and is told he already has. He asks what they mean, the election officials are required by law to investigate the discrepancy and lawyers from both parties are often on hand to make sure the investigation is pursued fully. This gets written up in Department of Justice statistics. However, this basically never has happened ever.

In order for this to have any possible effect, you'd have to 1) know the names of a statistically large number of registered voters who ALSO absolutely won't be voting, 2) have these non-voters all be in different districts because the election officials will recognize the same person coming in to vote a bunch of times in one area, 3) be careful enough that the other party never gets any idea it's happening and sends its teams of lawyers and detectives after it, because showing the other party was committing fraud would be a huge political win. This is why nobody ever does this, it's an enormous amount of work for a very small return in actual votes you could manufacture.

There are much easier ways that DO happen, like auto-dialing minority neighborhoods the night before the election and telling them the voting location has changed, or driving around threatening legal immigrants with deportation if they vote, or driving around with white hoods and telling blacks they'll be lynched if they vote. But these are more often used by Republicans, so there's no outrage.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77061.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...rial-over-claim-tried-to-suppress-black-vote/
http://archive.fairvote.org/righttovote/PFAW-NAACP.pdf

 

[spacejamz]

They can't, although it would be super easy to find. All you need to look for is double votes under one name. Amazingly enough that basically never happens.

Probably just a sign of how amazingly devious the fraudsters are.

Why would it be under one name??? How do you prove that someone didn't register and vote as their neighbor or someone else?