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Voter Fraud!

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,241
3,913
136
http://doonesbury.slate.com/

"32,229." -- Number of reported UFO sightings, 2000-2007

"352." -- Number of deaths caused by lightning, 2000-2007

"9." -- Number of possible occurrences of voter impersonation, 2000-2009
Of course, the source will be attacked, so I augmented with a number of corroborating links:

Lightning deaths:

It was found that a total of 374 struck-by-lightning deaths had occurred
during 1995–2000 (an average annualized rate of 0.23 deaths per million persons).

In the United States, it is the #2 weather killer (second only to floods).[5] In the US, between 9% and 10% of those struck die,[6] for an average of 40 to 50 deaths per year (28 in 2008).
UFO Sightings:

Whereas a typical number of reports submitted per month to NUFORC over the last 17 years has been 250-350, during June we received 974, and we have received 1,052 during July.

Each year, on average there are approximately 5000 UFO sightings reported to the National UFO Reporting Center [NUFORC].
Voter Impersonation:

George W. Bush's Justice Department spent years ferreting out voter fraud and managed to prosecute not one voter for impersonating another.

There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%
The Voter ID laws are a response to a problem that doesn't really exist. They are a partisan political attempt at voter suppression.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,820
1,123
126
Of course it is... its simply something for their dumbed down base to blame for their failures and shortcomings.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
*sigh* there is an issue with these things though, there is little to no system in place to prevent let alone detect fraud so who really knows what the numbers are? does it work or not? no one fucking knows and anyone who says otherwise is a fucking liar. the least we could do though is put in some form of voter identification to prevent multi-voting or fraudulent voting.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,649
0
76
www.facebook.com
I think this voter fraud the Republican Establishment is talking about is just meant to be a distraction used against the voting fraud they committed against Dr. Paul.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,062
7,517
146
*sigh* there is an issue with these things though, there is little to no system in place to prevent let alone detect fraud so who really knows what the numbers are? does it work or not? no one fucking knows and anyone who says otherwise is a fucking liar. the least we could do though is put in some form of voter identification to prevent multi-voting or fraudulent voting.
I don't know. This fraud was detected.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/republican-candidate-quits-amid-voter-fraud-allegations/

I have said it before and i'll day it again. Voter ID does not solve a known problem and the GOP seems completely disinterested in measures that would address the few types of voter fraud that are proven to exist.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,567
3
0
When Karl Rove worked for Bush and he made up the idea of voter fraud he got the Attorney General to direct the US Attorney's, etc to find cases of voter fraud. When they couldn't they fired the Attorneys. Then the new Attorneys couldn't find any.

At what point do you realize its voter fraud is a fraud?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Voter Impersonation:

George W. Bush's Justice Department spent years ferreting out voter fraud and managed to prosecute not one voter for impersonating another.

There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/16662854/2012/02/02/nbc2-investigates-voter-fraud

Two elections supervisors are taking action after an NBC2 investigation uncovers flawed record keeping and human error allowing people who are not citizens of the United States to vote.

No one knows how widespread this problem is, because county election supervisors have no way to track non-citizens who live here.

So NBC2 did something election officials never thought to do, and found them on our own.

"I vote every year," Hinako Dennett told NBC2.

The Cape Coral resident is not a US citizen, yet she's registered to vote.

NBC2 found Dennett after reviewing her jury excusal form. She told the Clerk of Court she couldn't serve as a juror because she wasn't a U.S. citizen.

We found her name, and nearly a hundred others like her, in the database of Florida registered voters.

Naples resident Yvonne Wigglesworth is also a not a citizen, but is registered to vote. She claims she doesn't know how she got registered.

"I have no idea. I mean, how am I supposed to know."

Records show Wigglesworth voted six times in elections dating back eleven years.

"I know you cannot vote before you become a citizen, so I never tried to do anything like that," Samuel Lincoln said.

He isn't a U.S. citizen either, but the Jamaican national says he doesn't know how he ended up registered to vote.

"It's their mistake, not mine," said Lincoln.

We obtained a copy of his 2007 voter registration application. It's clearly shows he marked U.S. citizen.

"This is under oath, that document, they are attesting that it is true and by falsifying, it's a third degree felony," said Tim Durham, Collier County's chief elections supervisor.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
When Karl Rove worked for Bush and he made up the idea of voter fraud he got the Attorney General to direct the US Attorney's, etc to find cases of voter fraud. When they couldn't they fired the Attorneys. Then the new Attorneys couldn't find any.

At what point do you realize its voter fraud is a fraud?
You mean the same administration that thought Iraq had WMDs and was working on nuclear weapons?

Of course as I posted above a news studio in Florida had no trouble finding it.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,486
13,493
136
*sigh* there is an issue with these things though, there is little to no system in place to prevent let alone detect fraud so who really knows what the numbers are? does it work or not? no one fucking knows and anyone who says otherwise is a fucking liar. the least we could do though is put in some form of voter identification to prevent multi-voting or fraudulent voting.
Oh, please. The Bush Admin set out to prove that it existed, and failed, even fired some of their own US attorneys for lack of diligence in the quest for the grail.

You're making the Bigfoot argument, the Roswell argument, the Area 51 argument, the one world order argument, the birther argument as applied to a different subject, that's all. Significant voter fraud exists only in the minds of the gullible and those who *want to believe* that the whole effort is something other than voter suppression.

It's not. When the State of Pennsylvania agrees that it has no bearing on their own repressive measures, won't even argue it in court, that should tell us all that the whole thing is bullshit.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,567
3
0
You mean the same administration that thought Iraq had WMDs and was working on nuclear weapons?

Of course as I posted above a news studio in Florida had no trouble finding it.
Yeah, right. Some news organization found what the entire national Republican elected officials and party couldn't.

Like I said when that nonsense was posted, I will wait to see if anyone is charged with a crime. Otherwise, its just sensationalist reporting. Even the Republican establisment in Florida is not bringing it up, because they suspect its bullshit.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
And? Please explain how photo ID would impact this?
Yeah, right. Some news organization found what the entire national Republican elected officials and party couldn't.

Like I said when that nonsense was posted, I will wait to see if anyone is charged with a crime. Otherwise, its just sensationalist reporting. Even the Republican establisment in Florida is not bringing it up, because they suspect its bullshit.
Maybe the problem is you cannot actually prove that he was the person that voted.

All that can be shown is that either someone registered and voted under his name, or he voted illegally.

But you cannot prove which, because photo ID is not required to vote. Although in either case voter fraud occurred.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Oh, please. The Bush Admin set out to prove that it existed, and failed, even fired some of their own US attorneys for lack of diligence in the quest for the grail.

You're making the Bigfoot argument, the Roswell argument, the Area 51 argument, the one world order argument, the birther argument as applied to a different subject, that's all. Significant voter fraud exists only in the minds of the gullible and those who *want to believe* that the whole effort is something other than voter suppression.

It's not. When the State of Pennsylvania agrees that it has no bearing on their own repressive measures, won't even argue it in court, that should tell us all that the whole thing is bullshit.
Florida has found 50 voters who voted in Bush vs Gore I believe? I'd personally just like to see at least the purple ink ie Iraq implemented.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,486
13,493
136
Florida has found 50 voters who voted in Bush vs Gore I believe? I'd personally just like to see at least the purple ink ie Iraq implemented.
Unsubstantiated rumor offered as plausible, a la bigfoot.

Repubs are losing the demographic battle, and will therefore lose more elections unless they can shape the eligible electorate better to their liking. Think of this as a desperate last grab attempt for them to remain relevant, to serve the monied interests that have been systematically looting the economy for decades.

If those interests actually paid people better, then more people would think they have something to protect by adopting "conservative" values... Fat chance of that, huh?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,486
13,493
136
Maybe the problem is you cannot actually prove that he was the person that voted.

All that can be shown is that either someone registered and voted under his name, or he voted illegally.

But you cannot prove which, because photo ID is not required to vote. Although in either case voter fraud occurred.
Not necessarily, given Florida's ability to screw up their record keeping.

But do keep on trying to lever up a vanishingly small number of cases of fraud into reason to disenfranchise millions who don't share your political views.

There are over 11M registered voters in Florida. Whatever fraud that might exist is so small as to be statistically insignificant. Purging a few 100K voters from the rolls can be, as can onerous requirements wrt registering new voters.

Last week, a federal court in Tallahassee blocked the state from imposing new restrictions on voter registration, including a law requiring registration forms be submitted to state officials within 48 hours. The law previously had allowed 10 days for submissions. Florida was never able to explain why a two-day rush was suddenly necessary, particularly when voter registration is often conducted by volunteers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-10/-election-fraud-is-just-another-way-of-playing-hardball.html
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,634
2,008
126
This was an interesting article on the topic: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/us/voting-systems-plagues-go-far-beyond-identification.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

And states have consistently failed to fix a wide range of electoral flaws identified by a bipartisan commission led by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III in 2005. In Florida, for example, the commission found 140,000 voters who had also registered in four other states — some 46,000 of them in New York City alone. When 1,700 of them registered for absentee ballots in the other state, no one investigated. Some 60,000 voters were also simultaneously registered in North and South Carolina.
If anything is an avenue for fraud, it would be via absentee ballots more than in-person.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,805
2,244
126
Why is this even an issue? Want to drive a car, buy a gun, cash a check, use a credit card, fly on a plane, go to school, get a job, have a home, or get cable TV, you need ID. Why the fuss over an id to vote?
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,634
2,008
126
Why is this even an issue? Want to drive a car, buy a gun, cash a check, use a credit card, fly on a plane, go to school, get a job, have a home, or get cable TV, you need ID. Why the fuss over an id to vote?
In general, I don't oppose the idea of requiring ID. The rub comes from the targeted approach of these laws and the statements from lawmakers about how "this will help X candidate" because Y candidate would only win due to some grand, super-villain conspiracy to commit in-person voter fraud (and leave no trail of evidence behind).

If these laws provided a comprehensive change - such as covering absentee ballot security, voting machine paper trails, the clerks that would actually count the votes (since they probably have had ample opportunities in the past to stuff the ballot box), and provisions to get less mobile-people IDs (maybe some traveling state office to reach out to these individuals), then I'd probably go along with it.

Edit:
Who needs ID to get cable tv? I just call them on the phone and give them a name and address, nothing else. Also, driving a car isn't considered a right. Don't need an ID to use a credit card. And I believe you can get through airport security without a photo id, just need extra screening.
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
Why is this even an issue? Want to drive a car, buy a gun, cash a check, use a credit card, fly on a plane, go to school, get a job, have a home, or get cable TV, you need ID. Why the fuss over an id to vote?
None of those are fundamental rights indispensable to democracy, and none have America-long histories of violent and non-violent suppression of that right to keep minorities from utilizing that right.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
0
Why is this even an issue? Want to drive a car, buy a gun, cash a check, use a credit card, fly on a plane, go to school, get a job, have a home, or get cable TV, you need ID. Why the fuss over an id to vote?
Notice the 2 guys that responded to your post missed talking about buying the gun thing? They always do.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
67,999
3,068
126
The lack of confirmed voter fraud allegations shows just how prevalent the problem is!

:colbert:
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Notice the 2 guys that responded to your post missed talking about buying the gun thing? They always do.
I suggest using bold from now on.

None of those are fundamental rights indispensable to democracy, and none have America-long histories of violent and non-violent suppression of that right to keep minorities from utilizing that right.
Your right. If you have to show id for such basic things as buying cold medicine it does not seem unreasonable to have to show it before performing something which a much bigger impact on society.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,202
6
81
This was an interesting article on the topic: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/us/voting-systems-plagues-go-far-beyond-identification.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


If anything is an avenue for fraud, it would be via absentee ballots more than in-person.
^This. Voter fraud by identity theft in person, etc, is basically nonexistant. Absentee ballots are obviously an easy way to commit voter fraud, and yet it never seems to grab the attention of the legislators who are trying to crack down on voter fraud. Meanwhile, absentee voters tend to vote republican while people without ID/registration tend to vote democratic.

Hmmm, I wonder if there is any relation here..... ;)

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/daily-show-voter-fraud-statistics-are-limited-only-as-much-as-your-imagination-20120613
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
^This. Voter fraud by identity theft in person, etc, is basically nonexistant. Absentee ballots are obviously an easy way to commit voter fraud, and yet it never seems to grab the attention of the legislators who are trying to crack down on voter fraud. Meanwhile, absentee voters tend to vote republican while people without ID/registration tend to vote democratic.

Hmmm, I wonder if there is any relation here..... ;)

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/daily-show-voter-fraud-statistics-are-limited-only-as-much-as-your-imagination-20120613
It would seem to only show that the Democrats are once against stupid.

It would seem that the easiest way for them to get the Republicans to stop talking about voter id measures would be to also include was to fight absentee voter fraud.
 

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