Viewsonic VP171B now available in 8ms model?

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: Trizzay
Edit: I just checked newegg again, and they have updated their description and now list it as a 16ms panel. Looks like they are still selling the old version. I guess that makes your decision easy on where to get it!

Well.. damn. I just checked and it's back to 16ms.

Oh well.. I'll wait until the end of the month for a deal or something to come along, if not, then I'll order it anyways. I don't absolutely *need* it right now, but there's a LAN party in March and I don't wanna lug my CRT there (even though it'll only be like 20 minutes away).

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I wouldn't have been suprised if it was 8ms, the other specs aren't that great compared to Samsung's 12ms models, lower contrast and worse viewing angles. But alas it is 16ms. Damn, was a nice price if it was an 8ms panel.

 

[Trizzay]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
I wouldn't have been suprised if it was 8ms, the other specs aren't that great compared to Samsung's 12ms models, lower contrast and worse viewing angles. But alas it is 16ms. Damn, was a nice price if it was an 8ms panel.

It is an 8ms panel that I got....the VP171B-2. I'm not sure what you're saying?

 

[Trizzay]

Nevermind, I think you're talking about the model that Newegg is selling. To be assured of getting the 8ms panel, you need to order it through Dell like I did.

 

[JeremiahTheGreat]

Are these 8bit colour panels? Or more of the same horrid 6bit dithers..

 

[Trizzay]

Yeah man, it looks horrid. I don't even know how I stand to look at this thing. It must be my imagination that it looks fantastic. :roll:

 

[JP215]

So Trizz what is the max fps and display frequency you are able to get with that monitor?

 

[junvi]

If I'm looking for a 17" LCD and gaming is one of my priorities, is this the LCD to get?

 

[JP215]

I don't know that there is one. If you can't get good fps and display rates I don't think there is a point.

 

[junvi]

any updates?

 

[rivethead]

It's actually an excellent question that I wish someone would answer. I've been shopping for a 17" LCD for weeks now. I cannot find enough information to make a sound decision.

At first I looked at the samsung 710T (because of the quick response time and rave reviews). But then I found out it uses 6-bit processing and dithering to achieve that quick time. In short, it "cheats" to get that quick response time by only displaying 16.2 million colors versus the full 16.7 million that 8-bit, non-dithering monitors display.

Then I found the Dell UltraSharp 1704FPT that is 12ms, but I cannot find the color support specification ANYWHERE. I've searched the Dell website thoroughly and talked 3 times to different tech support people (all in India, unfortuately). Also 4 emails to those folks as well. No one at Dell seems to know the answer.

I looked at the ViewSonic models, but their color specification only says "over 16 million colors". That's not a very complete description is it? If it's 16.7 million it's an 8-bit monitor. If it's 16.2 million it's a 6-bit (I've also seen these differences described as 24-bit and 18-bit). I'm guessing, but I bet the vagueness of their specification is to hide the fact that the monitor is only 6-bit.

So yes, there are some very fast monitors with 12ms and 8ms response times out there, but it looks to me like they're achieving that quickness by cheating via dithering.

Will you really notice a difference if a monitor can only display 16.2 million colors versus 16.7? After all, what's 500,000 colors? I can't answer that question yet. I haven't done enough research.

But the way I look at it, there are full 8-bit monitors out there with fairly quick response times. So the technology is there. So why buy a monitor that cheats?

I've either going to end up buying an LG 1710BK (16ms, DVI, 16.7million colors, dirt cheap: $304 at newegg) or keep searching for an 8-bit, 12ms response time (or lower) monitor. Maybe the lads at Dell India will finally get me an answer on that Dell UltraSharp 1704FPT. IF it's an 8-bit monitor, then I'll get it (12ms response, DVI, USB hub, $348).

But bottom line: I wish there was more discussion on dithering in LCDs. I'm getting the impression that it's a dirty little secret kept by the industry. And no one seems to want to discuss it.

 

[JeremiahTheGreat]

Thank-you rivehead!

Everyone seems so worked up over response time, they have forgotten something equally as important - colour reproduction. I use to have a 15" 25ms LCD and purchased a new (at the time) super-duper 17" 16ms (mitsubishi 172b), and the colour difference was very noticable. It simply was not able to get the same richness as my old monitor and in games, it was difficult to detect colour differences especially in dark games (HL2 and Doom3 !) without resorting to upping the gamma to rediculous levels and thus giving a very washed out look. So is there a difference? My personal experience is definitely yes..

to be back on topic: is this panel 8bit or 6bit dither?

 

[Smoothe]

Hey rivethead, you say the Dell Ultrasharp 1704FPV is a 12ms panel. Where did you read that? It says 25ms on the Dell website.

 

[rivethead]

No, this is Dell being a bunch of confusing Dumba$$es. The Dell UltraSharp 1704FPV is 25ms and 1000:1 contrast. The Dell UltraSharp 1704FPT is 16ms and 500:1 contrast.

Note the "FPV" vs the "FPT".

 

[rivethead]

Helps to give a link...

http://support.dell.com/suppor...s/1704fpt/EN/index.htm

 

[JP215]

So Trizz,

1) what is the max fps

2)Max display frequency you are able to get with that monitor?

Thanks!

 

[NiKeFiDO]

yes unfortunately it is next to impossible to find a 8-bit sub 25ms response time panel yet. When you people find one, let me know so I can hop all over that deal!

 

[rivethead]

I appreciate your reply. I believe the problem is that the industry knows there is a thirst for "fast" monitors. So everyone is giving what the buying public wants: quicker response times. But at the sacrifice of color reproduction.



I want to have my cake and eat it too!!

 

[rivethead]

The LG 1710BK appears to be the answer: 16ms response time, 16.7 million colors, 2 usb ports, and cheap at $304 at newegg. FYI, just two weeks ago this monitor was $319 at newegg. It's dropping in price. I bet this has something to do with the (soon to come) introduction of the LG 1780U which is 8bit and 12ms response. I've asked the folks at LG just when this monitor will hit market: they tell me they're not sure.

 

[Smoothe]

Originally posted by: rivethead
Helps to give a link...

http://support.dell.com/suppor...s/1704fpt/EN/index.htm

I noticed you linked to a support page. Is this monitor available to purchase because I cannot seem to find it?

 

[junvi]

on Newegg it's got the 1710BK listed as D-SUB only but the user reviews say DVI. What about the 1710SK?

Also, here's another question--with all this talk of specs, is this the only thing that matters? Are there some manufacturers that just make better monitors despite the specs?

 

[IamTHEsnake]

I too am searching for a 17" LCD for gaming. Is this LG's response time good enough? I mean 16ms, will that ghost?

It's either that or the Samsung 710T.

 

[JP215]

Originally posted by: IamTHEsnake
I too am searching for a 17" LCD for gaming. Is this LG's response time good enough? I mean 16ms, will that ghost?

It's either that or the Samsung 710T.

Isn't the better question, what kinds of FPS max and max hertz at good resolutions will a LCD be able to handle? From the research I've done it seems some of the higher end LCDs don't have issues with ghosting, so that in my mind is the next big issue surrounding LCDs and gaming.

 

[Turbonium]

When you guys find a >=22inch widescreen LCD with the following specs...

>= 8-bit pixel depth
<= 8ms response time
>= 800:1 contrast ratio
>=450 cd/m2
>=160 degree viewing angle

...let me know.

 

[rivethead]

Yeah, I noticed that too. The Dell site is really weird. It's definitely for sale to the public. It's promoted in their January catalog which I got in the mail (and where I first saw it). It's $349, but I saw a company called T Supply selling it for $280 (plus $50 S&H) on ebay. They had 18 units for sale when their auction expired yesterday, so I bet they'll start a new sale.

The link I provided is what the tech support people in India sent me to answer my color specs question (even though the user guide does not have that spec listed!).

Sorry I cannot be more help.