Video of SWAT Raid on Missouri Family, kill family dog

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Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
All this discussion about SWAT shooting skills and legal definition of pets is academic. The important thing here is the drug father and his family learned a couple of important lessons:

1. Drugs are not cool. They attract police.

2. Drugs have unwanted consequences, including loss of family pet; loss of income;, and loss of front door.

3. The drug father must repent by apologizing to his family.

4. A grown man crying is one thing. Crying in front of your family over something that is 100% your fault is humiliating and horrible.

5. JUST SAY NO!!!
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
All this discussion about SWAT shooting skills and legal definition of pets is academic. The important thing here is the drug father and his family learned a couple of important lessons:

1. Drugs are not cool. They attract police.

2. Drugs have unwanted consequences, including loss of family pet; loss of income;, and loss of front door.

3. The drug father must repent by apologizing to his family.

4. A grown man crying is one thing. Crying in front of your family over something that is 100% your fault is humiliating and horrible.

5. JUST SAY NO!!!

You the same douche bag mentality that blames guns for crime.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
Who gives a fuck about a baby fence when a PIT BULL is on the other side.

Also, if you expect police to be perfect shooters then I guess I cannot argue with you. Those are your expectations. I think you've watched too many movies, though.

Little baby scared of pitbulls too? You must be terrified of a lot of life, guess that explains your blind defense of police.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,721
20,277
146
If you're getting so emotional over something like this, someone like you is not qualified to be in any leadership position. It has less to do with toughness and more to do with being focused and not letting other variables get in your way.

Maybe someone who gives a shit about his fellow man, regardless of his profession, is the right man for the job. In this instance, the "variables" are pets. In other cases those variables may be innocent humans.

No matter how you spin it, the Police, SWAT, or anyone else is not above the law and do not have free access to trample your rights. In terms of the topic at hand, the suspects rights were trampled due to bad police work.
 
Feb 16, 2005
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If you're getting so emotional over something like this, someone like you is not qualified to be in any leadership position. It has less to do with toughness and more to do with being focused and not letting other variables get in your way.

Thank you for that deep insight dr narmer... same time next week?
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
Little baby scared of pitbulls too? You must be terrified of a lot of life, guess that explains your blind defense of police.

I don't have a blind defense of police. They carry a lot of power so they have a lot of responsibility. When they abuse their power I will be the first to call them on it. However, I did not see this here. They destroyed property and apprehended a man that was brought to their attention and thought to be a drug dealer. Police did their job here. But what I find astonishing is that people want to ignore the head of the family, the drug father, for his transgressions. Remember, he also has a heavy responsibility to his family. Perhaps your father never taught you personal responsibility and how you should take care of your family by leading by example. Mine did.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,186
32,633
136
I don't have a blind defense of police. They carry a lot of power so they have a lot of responsibility. When they abuse their power I will be the first to call them on it. However, I did not see this here. They destroyed property and apprehended a man that was brought to their attention and thought to be a drug dealer. Police did their job here. But what I find astonishing is that people want to ignore the head of the family, the drug father, for his transgressions. Remember, he also has a heavy responsibility to his family. Perhaps your father never taught you personal responsibility and how you should take care of your family by leading by example. Mine did.
Clearly, anyone who smokes pot deserves to have their dog shot. I think that should be the new defacto punishment.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
All this discussion about SWAT shooting skills and legal definition of pets is academic. The important thing here is the drug father and his family learned a couple of important lessons:

No, it's not just academic. The SWAT team should never have been involved and when they were, they should've acted much differently. There's plenty of blame for the administration and individual team members.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
When they abuse their power I will be the first to call them on it. However, I did not see this here.

No you won't because nothing the police/SWAT team does would be considered "abuse" to you.

They destroyed property and apprehended a man that was brought to their attention and thought to be a drug dealer. Police did their job here.

A dog is more than just property.

But what I find astonishing is that people want to ignore the head of the family, the drug father, for his transgressions. Remember, he also has a heavy responsibility to his family. Perhaps your father never taught you personal responsibility and how you should take care of your family by leading by example. Mine did.

You're ignoring the abuse of police power.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Very very very bad all the way around. Yes the father had priors, but none of it was violent. There was no need to use SWAT for this. Hell, had this been in Texas, this situation may have turned out a lot worse as the home owner has every right to defend his property with a shotgun if someone tries to break in at night. That includes a SWAT team. You just don't knock once and bust in 9 seconds later with guns ablazing. Everyone involved should be facing serious repercussions over this. If I was the man, I'd be getting a lawyer and suing the shit out of that police department and that swat team. Then, I'd go after every individual involved. Why? They are the ones that fucked up. They are trained better than that and should act accordingly.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,334
2,532
136
All this discussion about SWAT shooting skills and legal definition of pets is academic. The important thing here is the drug father and his family learned a couple of important lessons:

1. Drugs are not cool. They attract police.

2. Drugs have unwanted consequences, including loss of family pet; loss of income;, and loss of front door.

3. The drug father must repent by apologizing to his family.

4. A grown man crying is one thing. Crying in front of your family over something that is 100% your fault is humiliating and horrible.

5. JUST SAY NO!!!

Even when you just say NO!!!! the police can still abuse your rights and even kill you and nobody is ever held accountable.

Donald Scott

October 2, 1992—CA



In an early morning drug raid on October 2, 1992, 31 officers from five police agencies break down the door to the multimillion dollar home of Donald Scott.

Frightened, Scott's wife screams, "Don't shoot me. Don't kill me." Hearing his wife's screams, Scott emerges from his bedroom holding a handgun, still groggy from a recent cataract operation. When Scott raises the gun in the direction of the police intruders, the raiding officers shoot him dead.

Despite assurances from the L.A. Sheriff's Department that Scott was farming more than 4,000 marijuana plants on his property, thorough search of Scott's property fails to yield any contraband. In fact, Scott's friends would later say he was adamantly opposed to illicit drugs.

Though Scott's grand Malibu ranch is in Ventura County, California, no Ventura police agency was represented among the five police agencies (the L.A. Sheriff's office, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Border Patrol, the National Guard and the National Park Service) that conducted the raid. A blistering subsequent investigation by Ventura County district attorney Michael Bradbury suggests why.

Bradbury found gross misstatements of fact, omissions, and outright falsehoods in the application for a search warrant issued by the L.A. sheriff's department. He found that the department had conducted numerous investigations of the ranch, including flyovers and firsthand visits, which found no evidence of marijuana cultivation. Finally, during a low-level flyover one DEA agent suggested to the sheriff's department that he had spotted some plants beneath tree cover that might be marijuana -- but stipulated that his observation ought not be the basis of a search warrant. On that evidence, the L.A. sheriff's department obtained its warrant.

Bradbury concluded that, confirming Donald Scott's fears, the L.A. sheriff's department conducted its raid for the purpose of seizing Donald Scott's property through drug asset forfeiture laws. Under federal law, the department would have been able divvy up proceeds from the $2.5 million ranch with the four other agencies joining in the investigation. Bradbury found documents in which the investigating agencies had expressed desire for Scott's land on various "wish lists," and one notation in which sheriff's department officials had taken note of the recent sale value of one parcel of Scott's land.

According to an L.A. deputy district attorney at the time, two of the agents conducting the raid posed for a triumphant photograph after Scott was shot and killed.

In January 2000, the L.A. Sheriff's Department settled with Scott's family for $5 million, though the terms of the settlement admitted no wrongdoing. In fact, officers from the department who conducted the raid have insisted from the beginning that both the raid and the shooting of Scott were justified, despite the absence of any illegal substances. L.A. Sheriff's Department Captain Larry Waldie told the Los Angeles Times, "I do not believe it was an illegal raid in any way, shape or form." Five years after the raid, Garry Spencer, the officer who both led the raid and who killed Scott told the same paper, "I don't consider it botched. I wouldn't call it botched because that would say that it was a mistake to have gone there in the first place, and I don't believe that."

Sources:

Michael Fessier, Jr., "Trail's End; Deep in a Wild Canyon West of Malibu, a Controversial Law Brought Together a Zealous Sheriff's Deputy and an Eccentric Recluse. A Few Seconds Later, Donald Scott Was Dead," Los Angeles Times Magazine, August 1, 1993, p. 26.

Michael D. Bradbury, Report on the Death of Donald Scott, Office of the District Attorney, County of Ventura, State of California, March 30, 1993.

"Fair End in Police Abuse Case," Los Angeles Times, editorial, January 13, 2000, p. B9.

Daryl Kelley, "Ventura D.A. Says Fatal Raid Was Unjustified," Los Angeles Times, March 30, 1993, p. A1.

Scott Hadly, "Officer criticized over 1992 raid still wants vindication," Los Angeles Times, December 3, 1997, p. B3.

Alberta Spruill

May 16, 2003—NY



On May 16, 2003, a dozen New York City police officers storm an apartment building in Harlem on a no-knock warrant. They're acting on a tip from a confidential informant, who told them a convicted felon was dealing drugs and guns from the sixth floor.

There is no felon. The only resident in the building is Alberta Spruill, described by friends as a "devout churchgoer." Before entering the apartment, police deploy a flashbang grenade. The blinding, deafening explosion stuns the 57 year-old city worker, who then slips into cardiac arrest. She dies two hours later.

A police investigation would later find that the drug dealer the raid team was looking for had been arrested days earlier. He couldn't possibly have been at Spruill's apartment because he was in custody. The officers who conducted the raid did no investigation to corroborate the informant's tip. A police source told the New York Daily News that the informant in the Spruill case had offered police tips on several occasions, none of which had led to an arrest. His record was so poor, in fact, that he was due to be dropped from the city's informant list.

Nevertheless, his tip on the ex-con in Spruill's building was taken to the Manhattan district attorney's office, who approved of the application for a no-knock entry. It was then taken to a judge, who issued the warrant resulting in Spruill's death. From tip to raid, the entire "investigation" and execution were over in a matter of hours.

Spruill's death triggered an outpouring of outrage and emotion in New York and inspired dozens of victims of botched drug raids, previously afraid to tell their stories, to come forward.

Still, the number of real, tangible reforms to result from the raid were few. Though the number of no-knocks in New York has by most indications declined, there's still no real oversight or transparency in how they're granted and carried out. And victims of botched raids still have no real recourse, other than to hope the media gets hold of their story.
Sources:

Austin Fenner, Maki Becker, and Michelle McPhee, "Cops' Tragic Grenade Raid; Storm wrong apt., woman dies," New York Daily News, May 17, 2003, p.3.

William K. Rashbaum, "Report by police outlines mistakes in ill-fated raid," New York Times, May 31, 2003, p. A1.

Fernanda Santos and Patrice O'Shaughnessy, "Snitch had shaky rep," New York Daily News, May 18, 2003.

Leonard Levitt, "Focus on Kelly, Race After Raid," Newsday, May 19, 2003, p. A2.


Alberto Sepulveda

September 13, 2000—CA


Early in the morning on September 13, 2000, agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration, the FBI, and the Stanislaus County, California drug enforcement agency conduct raids on 14 homes in and around Modesto, California after a 19-month investigation.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the DEA and FBI asked that local SWAT teams enter each home unannounced to secure the area ahead of federal agents, who would then come to serve the warrants and search for evidence. Federal agents warn the SWAT teams that the targets of the warrants, including Alberto Sepulveda's father Moises, should be considered armed and dangerous.

After police forcibly enter the Sepulveda home, Alberto, his father, his mother, his sister, and his brother are ordered to lie face down on the floor with arms outstretched. Half a minute after the raid begins, the shotgun officer David Hawn has trained on Alberto's head discharges, instantly killing the eleven-year-old boy.

No drugs or weapons are found in the home.

The Los Angeles Times later reports that when Modesto police asked federal investigators if there were any children present in the Sepulveda home, they replied, "not aware of any." There were three.

A subsequent internal investigation by the Modesto Police Department found that federal intelligence evidence against Moises Sepulveda -- who had no previous criminal record -- was "minimal." In 2002 he pled guilty to the last charge remaining against him as a result of the investigation -- using a telephone to distribute marijuana. The city of Modesto and the federal government later settled a lawsuit brought by the Sepulvedas for the death of their son for $3 million.

At first, Modesto Police Chief Roy Wasden seemed to be moved by Sepulveda's death toward genuine reform. "What are we gaining by serving these drug warrants?" Wasden is quoted as asking in the Modesto Bee. "We ought to be saying, 'It's not worth the risk. We're not going to put our officers and community at risk anymore.'"

Unfortunately, as part of the settlement with the Sepulvedas, while Modesto announced several reforms in the way its SWAT team would carry out drug raids, there was no mention of discontinuing the use of paramilitary units to conduct no-knock or knock-and-announce warrants on nonviolent drug offenders.

Sources:

Rebecca Trounson, "Deaths raise questions about SWAT teams; Police: Accidents, deaths and raids at wrong addresses put pressure on departments to disband groups. Officers defend paramilitary units as effective when used properly," Los Angeles Times, November 1, 2000, p. A1.

Ty Phillips and Michael G. Mooney, "How did the gun go off? Police report fails to answer question in SWAT shooting of Alberto Sepulveda," Modesto Bee, January 11, 2001, p. A1.

Michael G. Mooney, "Boy's death costs Modesto $2.55M; Sepulveda family settles lawsuit filed against city after 11-year-old shot during SWAT drug raid," Modesto Bee, June 20, 2002, p. A1.

Rebecca Trounson, "Suit could put limit on use of SWAT teams; Police: Lawyer for family of Modesto boy killed in raid to ask federal court to end role of the paramilitary units in drug cases," Los Angeles Times, January 16, 2001, p. A3.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
Even when you just say NO!!!! the police can still abuse your rights and even kill you and nobody is ever held accountable.
...

I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. How did the police abuse anyone's right here? It seems like those higher up screwed up big time, not the police doing the raids. Also, the state is allowed to kill in legal circumstances. The bosses legitimized the raids...
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Brovane, if you're gonna make an omelette you've gotta break a few eggs. Those people died a heroes death in our crusade against immorality. People should be thankful that their government cares about them enough to kill them if there's a chance that there are drugs in the house. Better to be dead that drugged, I always say.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. How did the police abuse anyone's right here? It seems like those higher up screwed up big time, not the police doing the raids. Also, the state is allowed to kill in legal circumstances. The bosses legitimized the raids...

Shooting an eleven year old boy in the head was not a violation of his rights?

I want the police to kill you. Truly I do.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. How did the police abuse anyone's right here? It seems like those higher up screwed up big time, not the police doing the raids. Also, the state is allowed to kill in legal circumstances. The bosses legitimized the raids...


Wow, you are sickening "human" being, and an apologist of the highest order. I share Boberfetts notions that you are the most deserving person I have ever met to deserve the brunt of an uninformed no-knock warrant with a trigger happy, ill trained SWAT team.
 
May 11, 2008
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Guys, this is pure bullshit. SWAT goes on all kinds of calls, including into the most dangerous homes in the country. They are NOT mindless hunters of humans. The vast majority of them never make a bad shoot, even though they know at any time a killer might be just around the corner with a weapon capable of cutting through kevlar (not to mention the quite real possibility of taking a fatal non-torso shot.) SWAT members are typically more disciplined than are regular cops, who are in turn more disciplined than are the rest of us. (I for one freely admit I would have fired on many occasions when a cop held his fire, including one incident here in Chattanooga where the lady lost her life.) The fault here wasn't in sending SWAT, that may or may not have been a good decision depending on the known information at the time. The fault here is one or more bad cops who happen to be SWAT members, either people who enjoy terrorizing others or people who (like me) are just not suited to bursting in on a potentially deadly scene where some or all there may be perfectly harmless people. Men who shoot barking yap dogs, or pit bulls behind a gate, are not suited to be cops.

Afcourse you are totally right. It reminded me of something, therefore i posted what i posted...
 
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ViperXX

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2001
2,058
10
81
Why should it stop them? The cops are just doing their job. Who knows what that dog could have done. The guy should have answered the door when the cops announced themselves.


Yeah I'm sure the Gestapo was just doing their job too when they busted into peoples homes and drug off any Jews they found to concentration camps.

Your an idiot! The cops are part of a corrupt system.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
All this discussion about SWAT shooting skills and legal definition of pets is academic. The important thing here is the drug father and his family learned a couple of important lessons:

1. Drugs are not cool. They attract police.

2. Drugs have unwanted consequences, including loss of family pet; loss of income;, and loss of front door.

3. The drug father must repent by apologizing to his family.

4. A grown man crying is one thing. Crying in front of your family over something that is 100% your fault is humiliating and horrible.

5. JUST SAY NO!!!

god you are so damn crazy and stupid.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
I don't have a blind defense of police. They carry a lot of power so they have a lot of responsibility. When they abuse their power I will be the first to call them on it. However, I did not see this here. They destroyed property and apprehended a man that was brought to their attention and thought to be a drug dealer. Police did their job here. But what I find astonishing is that people want to ignore the head of the family, the drug father, for his transgressions. Remember, he also has a heavy responsibility to his family. Perhaps your father never taught you personal responsibility and how you should take care of your family by leading by example. Mine did.

My father didn't beat me like yours must have. Only way someone could come out as screwed up as you is if they had a screwed up family.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
1. A SWAT team does not decide when and where to go. They are doing their job. Have a problem with that, blame someone else.

2. You do not know what situation they were in when they entered the house.

3. Missing a dog does not mean they are incompetent. It just means they missed their target.
Narmer is offline Report Post

the mayor and chief of police and swat commander.

yes we do the video clearly shows what the situation was when they busted down the door.

yea it does. they served a warrant 8 days later, fired 4 shots in a home with children and violated the civil liberties of the people inside the home.

This is America not fucking eastern Europe. every person involved with this from the judge, police chief, swat commander, swat member should be immediately fired. The swat twits gave the family 1 fucking minute to open the door before they busted in and totally traumatized the family. this war on drugs has got to end and so does using swat to do drug raids on a tip.
 
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Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
Shooting an eleven year old boy in the head was not a violation of his rights?

I want the police to kill you. Truly I do.

Was the shooting illegal? Cause,if it was, the shooter would be criminally responsible. I just don't see that here. But, go and blame and blame the police that are carrying out the raids if it'll make you feel better. You assholes need to learn where to point the blame when something goes wrong. Yeah, the politicians, majors, government lawyers, judges, etc... But it's so easy to blame those you can see rather than those you cannot. Blame the gun holders but not the power behind the gun. Sometimes dealing with the public is like dealing with a bunch of yo-yos.

EDIT: Unfortunately, your lawyers are not as stupid.
 
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Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
My father didn't beat me like yours must have. Only way someone could come out as screwed up as you is if they had a screwed up family.

Is that what you think? Because I have the ability to think clearly, through the bullshit, that I must've abused by my father? If this is the best you've got, then I have nothing further to say because you're far off the deep-end.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Was the shooting illegal? Cause,if it was, the shooter would be criminally responsible. I just don't see that here. But, go and blame and blame the police that are carrying out the raids if it'll make you feel better. You assholes need to learn where to point the blame when something goes wrong. Yeah, the politicians, majors, government lawyers, judges, etc... But it's so easy to blame those you can see rather than those you cannot. Blame the gun holders but not the power behind the gun. Sometimes dealing with the public is like dealing with a bunch of yo-yos.

EDIT: Unfortunately, your lawyers are not as stupid.

dude the cops are the ones pulling the triggers they are just as much to blame as the judge who approved the warrant.