Video of SWAT Raid on Missouri Family, kill family dog

[Narmer]

dude the cops are the ones pulling the triggers they are just as much to blame as the judge who approved the warrant.

No they're not. Do you think a soldier is allowed to question the legitimacy of a war, a mission? No. He has his rules to obey and that's all that concerns him. He isn't paid to think about why he's doing this. He's paid to do it and do it without breaking any rules. JHC, this is common sense.

 

[Ns1]

No they're not. Do you think a soldier is allowed to question the legitimacy of a war, a mission? No. He has his rules to obey and that's all that concerns him. He isn't paid to think about why he's doing this. He's paid to do it and do it without breaking any rules. JHC, this is common sense.

obligatory hitler reference

 

[Narmer]

obligatory hitler reference

I see Hitler and Nazi being referenced here a lot and I chose to ignore it because the notion that those down the ladder are supposed to challenge their superiors is ludicrous, dangerous even. But just because prosecutors got away with it at Nuremburg somehows means that it's the law of the land is equally stupid.

 

[OutHouse]

No they're not. Do you think a soldier is allowed to question the legitimacy of a war, a mission? No. He has his rules to obey and that's all that concerns him. He isn't paid to think about why he's doing this. He's paid to do it and do it without breaking any rules. JHC, this is common sense.

yes acutally a soldier does get to question the morality of orders i guess you have never been in the military because you have no fucking clue of what you are talking about.

Cops ARE NOT THE MILITARY!!!! they are law enforcement NOT the shock troops that some departments have allowed them to become.

 

[Ns1]

I see Hitler and Nazi being referenced here a lot and I chose to ignore it because the notion that those down the ladder are supposed to challenge their superiors is ludicrous, dangerous even. But just because prosecutors got away with it at Nuremburg somehows means that it's the law of the land is equally stupid.

almost as dangerous as say, blinding following orders when you're holding fully automatic rifles?

 

[OutHouse]

I see Hitler and Nazi being referenced here a lot and I chose to ignore it because the notion that those down the ladder are supposed to challenge their superiors is ludicrous, dangerous even. But just because prosecutors got away with it at Nuremburg somehows means that it's the law of the land is equally stupid.

ok let me get this straight. you are saying that nobody is suppose to question their superiors because it is ludicrous? is that what you are saying?

 

[Narmer]

ok let me get this straight. you are saying that nobody is suppose to question their superiors because it is ludicrous? is that what you are saying?

No, that's not what I'm saying. You can question them when you're given the opportunity. You can disobey the order and face a trial board or get written up. However, once you're in, you're in. No hesitation, no holding back. Shit like that is what can get you or your partner killed in the field.

 

[HumblePie]

No, that's not what I'm saying. You can question them when you're given the opportunity. You can disobey the order and face a trial board or get written up. However, once you're in, you're in. No hesitation, no holding back. Shit like that is what can get you or your partner killed in the field.

Can a mod just ban Narmer for trolling now? It's blatant beyond all comprehension. The guy is as bad as AzN on korea, Ihatevirus on Israel, and Spidey07 on Obama. Now we got Narmer on cops.

Seriously man, just stop. Not a single person in this thread, or I doubt on these boards, has agreed with you. The only thing you are showing is your ass-hat-ery in being one of the bigger douches around these forums.

 

[JSt0rm]

Can a mod just ban Narmer for trolling now? It's blatant beyond all comprehension. The guy is as bad as AzN on korea, Ihatevirus on Israel, and Spidey07 on Obama. Now we got Narmer on cops.

Seriously man, just stop. Not a single person in this thread, or I doubt on these boards, has agreed with you. The only thing you are showing is your ass-hat-ery in being one of the bigger douches around these forums.

lmao.

 

[Narmer]

Can a mod just ban Narmer for trolling now? It's blatant beyond all comprehension. The guy is as bad as AzN on korea, Ihatevirus on Israel, and Spidey07 on Obama. Now we got Narmer on cops.

Seriously man, just stop. Not a single person in this thread, or I doubt on these boards, has agreed with you. The only thing you are showing is your ass-hat-ery in being one of the bigger douches around these forums.

Too bad for you that the moderators do not shut down noise they don't like to hear. This isn't a dictatorship. Well, actually it is but it's a benelovent one. Anyway, if my logic is flawed then people that think the same way as you would've won the argument. But, unlike you, I prefer to address the source of the problem and not some goddamn dog.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

narmer, you are either seriously mentally challenged and believe you're right or you're an asshole. It just boils down to that.

 

[Narmer]

narmer, you are either seriously mentally challenged and believe you're right or you're an asshole. It just boils down to that.

You can call me whatever makes you feel good, I don't care. This is the internet, after all. But it won't change anything.

 

[HumblePie]

Too bad for you that the moderators do not shut down noise they don't like to hear. This isn't a dictatorship. Well, actually it is but it's a benelovent one. Anyway, if my logic is flawed then people that think the same way as you would've won the argument. But, unlike you, I prefer to address the source of the problem and not some goddamn dog.

No, you have your mind formed on a idea and are defending it using every method of logic and illogic your brain can conceive of. It's obvious you have intelligence because you are going out of your way to defend the indefensible. It reminds me of when I watch some religious creationist zealot that completely denies anything and everything about evolution. Well, the ones that aren't the type to stick their fingers in their ears and yell "naa naa nee naa naa" over and over to block out any arguments they may hear.

In your case, you are coming to some of the most inane and illogical conclusions and defending them without actually stopping to think through half of what you write. I could spend wasted time and point them out, but I know if I did, you'd come to some other convoluted premise of defense.

for example, your illogical fallacy of equating cops with military soldiers.

1) Soldiers are told to question the morality of orders
2) There are still RULES OF ENGAGEMENT laid out by the Geneva Convention that must be followed.
3) US Military soldiers are only allowed to fire upon lawful military combatants in a wartime environment. This does not include children, women, or dogs that are being idle bystanders.


I really could go on and poke more holes into your previous defense but what's the point? You've already shown in this thread that when someone has poked holes in your argument and proven you wrong, you come up with something else completely stupid to use as a shield. The only reason for this is because in my opinion you are a pure troll. It has everything to do with you being an A plus douchebag.

 

[Narmer]

No, you have your mind formed on a idea and are defending it using every method of logic and illogic your brain can conceive of. It's obvious you have intelligence because you are going out of your way to defend the indefensible. It reminds me of when I watch some religious creationist zealot that completely denies anything and everything about evolution. Well, the ones that aren't the type to stick their fingers in their ears and yell "naa naa nee naa naa" over and over to block out any arguments they may hear.

In your case, you are coming to some of the most inane and illogical conclusions and defending them without actually stopping to think through half of what you write. I could spend wasted time and point them out, but I know if I did, you'd come to some other convoluted premise of defense.

for example, your illogical fallacy of equating cops with military soldiers.

1) Soldiers are told to question the morality of orders
2) There are still RULES OF ENGAGEMENT laid out by the Geneva Convention that must be followed.
3) US Military soldiers are only allowed to fire upon lawful military combatants in a wartime environment. This does not include children, women, or dogs that are being idle bystanders.


I really could go on and poke more holes into your previous defense but what's the point? You've already shown in this thread that when someone has poked holes in your argument and proven you wrong, you come up with something else completely stupid to use as a shield. The only reason for this is because in my opinion you are a pure troll. It has everything to do with you being an A plus douchebag.

My comparison of police with the military was with regard to following orders in the field, not shooting people or dogs in particular. So long as you're not breaking the law or going against your orders, you're good. lol, it's obvious, 300+ posts later, that the police in this particular case have done nothing wrong or illegal. From what I read in the other articles mentioned, they did nothing illegal either. It's just frustrating to people like you that i'm not a bleeding heart who spills tears over lost property.

 

[HumblePie]

My comparison of police with the military was with regard to following orders in the field, not shooting people or dogs in particular. So long as you're not breaking the law or going against your orders, you're good. lol, it's obvious, 300+ posts later, that the police in this particular case have done nothing wrong or illegal. From what I read in the other articles mentioned, they did nothing illegal either. It's just frustrating to people like you that i'm not a bleeding heart who spills tears over lost property.

No, that's the point many trying to make. It is illegal. Just because they "get away" with it does not make the act any less illegal. Or any less immoral. The defense of "just following orders" does not work. In the military many, many, MANY soldiers along with their supervisors have been sent to prison because of that defense. Again, ignorance of the law does not protect you from it.

Not only that, cops in the field are not in any way soldiers. They are completely different paradigms that only have superficial similarities. Comparing the two is as equal to comparing apples to oranges.

Personally, I do not blame the cops at the scene for illegal search and seizure unless they are the ones to have gathered the "evidence" needed to obtain a search warrant. However, the behavior while performing the search and seizure IS their responsibility. They are trained exactly what to do in those situations. That training does not include shooting pets unless those pets are actually attacking them. As such, they violated the law and went against their training. They committed a crime. Sure, their crimes are somewhat less than their superiors, but that does remove their culpability. The fact you fail to see what everyone else does is why I'm calling you out as a troll. There are clear cut rules, regulations, and laws on how police are suppose to work. These were all violated by more than likely every person involved in this investigation.

Also, the belief that paramilitary should even be used in this instance needs to be looked at. The increase usage of SWAT teams and incidents like this needs to be addressed. That is not up for debate. It is a statement of fact. The problem is, while everyone knows something is broke and needs to be fixed, nothing is being done in most places. Not everywhere, as reforms are happening in many places around the country, but there are quite a few places this shit continues to happen.

 

[BoberFett]

Whatever you say Narmer.

Better OutHouse?

 

[OutHouse]

DUDE WTF????

remove that pic!

 

[Narmer]

No, that's the point many trying to make. It is illegal. Just because they "get away" with it does not make the act any less illegal. Or any less immoral. The defense of "just following orders" does not work. In the military many, many, MANY soldiers along with their supervisors have been sent to prison because of that defense. Again, ignorance of the law does not protect you from it.

Not only that, cops in the field are not in any way soldiers. They are completely different paradigms that only have superficial similarities. Comparing the two is as equal to comparing apples to oranges.

Personally, I do not blame the cops at the scene for illegal search and seizure unless they are the ones to have gathered the "evidence" needed to obtain a search warrant. However, the behavior while performing the search and seizure IS their responsibility. They are trained exactly what to do in those situations. That training does not include shooting pets unless those pets are actually attacking them. As such, they violated the law and went against their training. They committed a crime. Sure, their crimes are somewhat less than their superiors, but that does remove their culpability. The fact you fail to see what everyone else does is why I'm calling you out as a troll. There are clear cut rules, regulations, and laws on how police are suppose to work. These were all violated by more than likely every person involved in this investigation.

Also, the belief that paramilitary should even be used in this instance needs to be looked at. The increase usage of SWAT teams and incidents like this needs to be addressed. That is not up for debate. It is a statement of fact. The problem is, while everyone knows something is broke and needs to be fixed, nothing is being done in most places. Not everywhere, as reforms are happening in many places around the country, but there are quite a few places this shit continues to happen.

Look, you guys need to get your story straight. Either it was an abuse of power, illegal, or both. Look, I will give you your perfect example:

A cop killing a civilian legally defending his home in a raid that never should have been authorized. That is not illegal. It's unfortunate. Anything less isn't worth discussing.

 

[BoberFett]

Look, you guys need to get your story straight. Either it was an abuse of power, illegal, or both. Look, I will give you your perfect example:

A cop killing a civilian legally defending his home in a raid that never should have been authorized. That is not illegal. It's unfortunate. Anything less isn't worth discussing.

The eleven year old who was already subdued, lying face down on the floor, when a cop literally blew his head off with a shotgun at point blank range was just "unfortunate?"

You are a sad, little troll.

 

[Narmer]

The eleven year old who was already subdued, lying face down on the floor, when a cop literally blew his head off with a shotgun at point blank range was just "unfortunate?"

You are a sad, little troll.

That is not unfortunate. It's illegal, asshole.

 

[Darwin333]

Perhaps your father never taught you personal responsibility and how you should take care of your family by leading by example. Mine did.

Do you beat the ever living crap out of your child when they commit a very minor "offense"? Maybe knock out a few teeth if they forget to brush them? I am sure they won't forget to brush the ones they have left after that!

It is the level of force used and the actions of those that used the force in question. I agree that someone other than the SWAT team was wrong for sending the SWAT team in but if SWAT went in with zero intel (intel that I could have obtained in a few hours with zero training) and then fucked up they have responsibility in the matter as well. In my line of work I don't get to knowingly or negligently jeopardize the lives of others and then get off scot free because "my boss told me to do it".

Do you honestly believe that knowing all you do now that a no knock warrant served by SWAT was appropriate for this situation? You wanna talk about the homeowner not being manly because he was crying in front of his family, how manly is it to REQUIRE 7 extremely armed and trained SWAT members to take that same man down? Not only did it require 7 to take him down, he was such a huge threat that they could not reserve 1 to handle the dogs. So 6 SWAT members aren't enough to terrorize that douche but the douche is the one who isn't "man" enough?

Regardless of what else you say the fact of the matter is the SWAT team served a no knock warrant for a misdemeanor arrest. I wonder if you think that is appropriate for all misdemeanors?

 

[Narmer]

Do you beat the ever living crap out of your child when they commit a very minor "offense"? Maybe knock out a few teeth if they forget to brush them? I am sure they won't forget to brush the ones they have left after that!

It is the level of force used and the actions of those that used the force in question. I agree that someone other than the SWAT team was wrong for sending the SWAT team in but if SWAT went in with zero intel (intel that I could have obtained in a few hours with zero training) and then fucked up they have responsibility in the matter as well. In my line of work I don't get to knowingly or negligently jeopardize the lives of others and then get off scot free because "my boss told me to do it".

Do you honestly believe that knowing all you do now that a no knock warrant served by SWAT was appropriate for this situation? You wanna talk about the homeowner not being manly because he was crying in front of his family, how manly is it to REQUIRE 7 extremely armed and trained SWAT members to take that same man down? Not only did it require 7 to take him down, he was such a huge threat that they could not reserve 1 to handle the dogs. So 6 SWAT members aren't enough to terrorize that douche but the douche is the one who isn't "man" enough?

Regardless of what else you say the fact of the matter is the SWAT team served a no knock warrant for a misdemeanor arrest. I wonder if you think that is appropriate for all misdemeanors?

Your questions are illegitimate because they are after the fact. If SWAT knew what they know now obviously things would be different. Why even bring this up?

 

[Darwin333]

My comparison of police with the military was with regard to following orders in the field, not shooting people or dogs in particular. So long as you're not breaking the law or going against your orders, you're good. lol, it's obvious, 300+ posts later, that the police in this particular case have done nothing wrong or illegal. From what I read in the other articles mentioned, they did nothing illegal either. It's just frustrating to people like you that i'm not a bleeding heart who spills tears over lost property.

So long as the property isn't yours eh?

 

[Darwin333]

Your questions are illegitimate because they are after the fact. If SWAT knew what they know now obviously things would be different. Why even bring this up?

Because it is flat out irresponsible to not do very minimal things to gather intel necessary for SWAT to properly do its job.

It is irresponsible for their supervisors to send them into the situation without the required intel and it is just as irresponsible for SWAT to enter a situation in which they are placing innocent civilians, as well as their own lives, in danger with ZERO intel that could have been obtained extremely easily. Period.

If someone with zero training such as myself could have gathered the intel required in a few hours there is absolutely no excuse that they did not.

 

[Narmer]

Because it is flat out irresponsible to not do very minimal things to gather intel necessary for SWAT to properly do its job.

It is irresponsible for their supervisors to send them into the situation without the required intel and it is just as irresponsible for SWAT to enter a situation in which they are placing innocent civilians, as well as their own lives, in danger with ZERO intel that could have been obtained extremely easily. Period.

If someone with zero training such as myself could have gathered the intel required in a few hours there is absolutely no excuse that they did not.

ok?