video games undermining youth potential

[Acanthus]

The reason we are looking into your recreation, is because you dont realize that we may not agree with what you do for recreation. Gamers enjoy gaming, Clubbers enjoy clubbing.

You can just as easily argue that clubbers are more prone to get STDs, or become alchoholics, as you can argue that gamers are susceptible to becoming hermits.

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Rent
You're entire post is nothing more than retarded semantics. All it boils down to is that video games are bad. And why are they bad? It detracts from your social interactivity (read going outside and talking to other people because appearantly, its a BASIC human need)and it hurts your personal health (read It makes you fat (and appearantly working out is another BASIC human need)).

You're just perpetuating a sterotype that gamers are socially inept wimps. There are those that fit that catagory, there are MANY others that don't.

There are definately detractions that can occur from a lifestyle of nothing but gaming, but the same can be said for those who take up a lifestyle of bodybuilding.

no, my posts have turned into semantics because people like you are taking what i'm saying and misrepresenting them. so i'm left with no other recourse than to carefully qualify each of my statements. and still, it's no use. i guess i should no better than to bash video games on atot.

and the gamer stereotype isn't merely a stereotype. it's grounded in truth. the demographic for videogames have become extremely diverse within recent years, but regardless MY POINT ISN'T THAT PEOPLE TURN INTO HERMITS. I NEVER SAID IT IN ANY OF MY POSTS, GO AHEAD AND READ THEM OVER. maybe it's what you're thinking. maybe it's what other people have said. my point (for the fvkcing 10 millionth time) is the following: they don't incite any kind of intellectual development, they hinder real social relationships, and most practically they waste time and money. (copied from OP)

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Oh but drinking promotes intellectual development.
Social relationships? You dont meet people in online games? Or do they have to give us handjobs to be healthy? I dont see where youre going with that.
Oh and the money and time, games are far cheaper than a drinking.

um yah, "online friends"??? this deserves a few thousand eye rolls, but i'll throw in just one.

and holy christ almighty. how the hell did this "bar hopping" and "drinking" start. what's w/ the emphasis? someone please tell me, because i have no fvcking clue where it came from. it goes from "i go to bars on the weekends w/ my friends" to "i think drinking is intellectually stimulating." WHAT THE FUCK?

ok new rule, no more responses to idiots that misrepresent my statements.


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OH NOES! PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH ME!!

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
The reason we are looking into your recreation, is because you dont realize that we may not agree with what you do for recreation. Gamers enjoy gaming, Clubbers enjoy clubbing.

You can just as easily argue that clubbers are more prone to get STDs, or become alchoholics, as you can argue that gamers are susceptible to becoming hermits.

fine, but realize that i do both. although i wouldn't consider myself a clubber, i enjoy playing games as well as going to clubs. i also like lifting, i like snowboarding, etc. so please don't classify me, because you know very little about me.

however, one major difference is that, for whatever reason, you find alot of people that abuse gaming. you usually don't see ppl clubbing for 5 hours a day, yet it's not entirely uncommon to hear someone watching t.v. or playing video games for 5+ hours a day. there's a problem w/ that IMO.


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[Acanthus]

I understand what you are saying, and i agree that "marathon gaming" isn't healthy.

But your proposal in the OP of "i move to ban all forms of electronic interactive entertainment because they offer no benefit to society other than the economic benefit to the manufacturers" holds no merit at all. People can abuse any form of recreation. I would imagine that parents taking control of their children and only allowing so much gaming a day would be a far more productive and reasonable choice.

 

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: SampSon
It's implied that you treat bar hopping as a positive activity. Reread all of yoru posts and its very apparant.

Let's see, Ive been a DJ for years in clubs, and spend literally years of my life in them. My partners and I threw one of the longest and most successful nights in the city. Ive spend so much time meeting people, hanging out with them, giving people gigs at our night, and taking gigs at their clubnights.
I have spent MORE than my fair share of time in clubs interacting with more people than I can ever hope to remember. I would play out typically 1-3 times a week. At LEAST once a week at our night. The last thing I have is a social interaction problem.

I wouldn't say that drinking every weekend is moderation. Nor do I understand your analogy.

clarification:
bar hopping carries a connotation that i'm not happy with. i don't go bar hopping (in fact, i can't. there are only a handful of places to go around here). i stated very clearly what i do, and i don't know how it could be misrepresented. again: i go to bars because i enjoy dancing, and hanging out w/ my friends in a non-academic setting. i don't go to bars to get plastered. i don't go to bars to have mindless conversations. i placed no emphasis on this aspect of my life, but unfortunately other posters felt the need to. why? i don't know. also realize that what i'm implying isn't that "bar hopping" is a positive activity. what i'm saying is that being in a social setting is a form of entertainment that satisfies a small aspect of human development. i don't see how anyone could argue that sitting at home alone playing video games is in any way "better" than real human interaction - whether it's at a bar, a park, a cafe, or a goddamn treehouse.

as for my analogy, i'm basically arguing that my original statement was in no way contradictory. i can very easily (and soundly) state that i drink 4 times a week, but in moderation - think about having a glass of wine w/ dinner on 4 different nights.


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Yea I understand that, now go back and modify your other posts to reflect that.

Not everyone sits at home alone and plays video games. I would say that many people consider it a group activity.

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Kauru
Here's another one: how is sitting on ATOT neffing away, any more beneficial?

`K

i'm at work, i have few other options.


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Wasn't one of your big arguments is that video games aren't productive? Get back to work!!

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
I understand what you are saying, and i agree that "marathon gaming" isn't healthy.

But your proposal in the OP of "i move to ban all forms of electronic interactive entertainment because they offer no benefit to society other than the economic benefit to the manufacturers" holds no merit at all. People can abuse any form of recreation. I would imagine that parents taking control of their children and only allowing so much gaming a day would be a far more productive and reasonable choice.

well of course. how in the world am i going to expect a ban on video games? the idea was just to incite discussion.


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[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: SampSon
It's implied that you treat bar hopping as a positive activity. Reread all of yoru posts and its very apparant.

Let's see, Ive been a DJ for years in clubs, and spend literally years of my life in them. My partners and I threw one of the longest and most successful nights in the city. Ive spend so much time meeting people, hanging out with them, giving people gigs at our night, and taking gigs at their clubnights.
I have spent MORE than my fair share of time in clubs interacting with more people than I can ever hope to remember. I would play out typically 1-3 times a week. At LEAST once a week at our night. The last thing I have is a social interaction problem.

I wouldn't say that drinking every weekend is moderation. Nor do I understand your analogy.

clarification:
bar hopping carries a connotation that i'm not happy with. i don't go bar hopping (in fact, i can't. there are only a handful of places to go around here). i stated very clearly what i do, and i don't know how it could be misrepresented. again: i go to bars because i enjoy dancing, and hanging out w/ my friends in a non-academic setting. i don't go to bars to get plastered. i don't go to bars to have mindless conversations. i placed no emphasis on this aspect of my life, but unfortunately other posters felt the need to. why? i don't know. also realize that what i'm implying isn't that "bar hopping" is a positive activity. what i'm saying is that being in a social setting is a form of entertainment that satisfies a small aspect of human development. i don't see how anyone could argue that sitting at home alone playing video games is in any way "better" than real human interaction - whether it's at a bar, a park, a cafe, or a goddamn treehouse.

as for my analogy, i'm basically arguing that my original statement was in no way contradictory. i can very easily (and soundly) state that i drink 4 times a week, but in moderation - think about having a glass of wine w/ dinner on 4 different nights.


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Yea I understand that, now go back and modify your other posts to reflect that.

Not everyone sits at home alone and plays video games. I would say that many people consider it a group activity.

playing online doesn't qualify as a group activity. but like i said, if you bring out the xbox for some madden at a party then that's fine. lan parties are also social. they require planning, discussions, and general interaction between people beyond a purely electronic medium.


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Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: SampSon
It's implied that you treat bar hopping as a positive activity. Reread all of yoru posts and its very apparant.

Let's see, Ive been a DJ for years in clubs, and spend literally years of my life in them. My partners and I threw one of the longest and most successful nights in the city. Ive spend so much time meeting people, hanging out with them, giving people gigs at our night, and taking gigs at their clubnights.
I have spent MORE than my fair share of time in clubs interacting with more people than I can ever hope to remember. I would play out typically 1-3 times a week. At LEAST once a week at our night. The last thing I have is a social interaction problem.

I wouldn't say that drinking every weekend is moderation. Nor do I understand your analogy.

clarification:
bar hopping carries a connotation that i'm not happy with. i don't go bar hopping (in fact, i can't. there are only a handful of places to go around here). i stated very clearly what i do, and i don't know how it could be misrepresented. again: i go to bars because i enjoy dancing, and hanging out w/ my friends in a non-academic setting. i don't go to bars to get plastered. i don't go to bars to have mindless conversations. i placed no emphasis on this aspect of my life, but unfortunately other posters felt the need to. why? i don't know. also realize that what i'm implying isn't that "bar hopping" is a positive activity. what i'm saying is that being in a social setting is a form of entertainment that satisfies a small aspect of human development. i don't see how anyone could argue that sitting at home alone playing video games is in any way "better" than real human interaction - whether it's at a bar, a park, a cafe, or a goddamn treehouse.

as for my analogy, i'm basically arguing that my original statement was in no way contradictory. i can very easily (and soundly) state that i drink 4 times a week, but in moderation - think about having a glass of wine w/ dinner on 4 different nights.


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Yea I understand that, now go back and modify your other posts to reflect that.

Not everyone sits at home alone and plays video games. I would say that many people consider it a group activity.

playing online doesn't qualify as a group activity. but like i said, if you bring out the xbox for some madden at a party then that's fine. lan parties are also social. they require planning, discussions, and general interaction between people beyond a purely electronic medium.


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Humans need their privacy. Social interaction isn't required to be the majority of your day.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: SampSon
Humans need their privacy. Social interaction isn't required to be the majority of your day.

ok that's fine. time spent alone is very beneficial - it usually leads to contemplation and introspection. i can't really see how gaming helps any in this regard, though.


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Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: SampSon
Humans need their privacy. Social interaction isn't required to be the majority of your day.

ok that's fine. time spent alone is very beneficial - it usually leads to contemplation and introspection. i can't really see how gaming helps any in this regard, though.


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True. Though I cannot see how any other forms of pure entertainment provide any more beneficial qualities.

Regardless, for something to exist it shouldn't require a "beneficial" quality defined by our current societal values.

 

[Wuffsunie]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: jumpr
-3/10

this isn't a parody, btw.

So it's just stupid then?

Do you have any idea the amount of sh!t out there that dosen't "incite any kind of intellectual development" and/or "hinder real social relationships, and most practically ... waste time and money."? Kids play video games till they become adults and can graduate to watching pro sports and gambling. Just because a kid plays video games and is lazy in their youth does not mean they'll be the same as an adult. Hell, NOT playing video games does not mean you'll be healthy and productive as an adult either. After all, people were over weight and slothful LONG before Atari ever came around. And that's still true now. By pinning the cause of such decadence in modern society on video games you are in effect saying that the generations before games never suffered those problems and never had to deal with people like that. But, since I can find adults of all ages and generations who exemplify what you claim video games to be the root cause of who have never lifted a joystick in their life.

Originally posted by: theNEOone
fine, but realize that i do both. although i wouldn't consider myself a clubber, i enjoy playing games as well as going to clubs. i also like lifting, i like snowboarding, etc. so please don't classify me, because you know very little about me.

Yeah, but you seem to be doing this yourself by classifying every game player as a fat, out of shape hermit who couldn't socially interact with another RL human being if their life depended on it. Why should we not do the same with you?

Originally posted by: theNEOone
ok new rule, no more responses to idiots that misrepresent my statements.

Then you'll be leaving this thread? Woot!

Seriously, if you want to live like that and think others should to, there are places you can go and do so -- it's called Amish Country.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
Yeah, but you seem to be doing this yourself by classifying every game player as a fat, out of shape hermit who couldn't socially interact with another RL human being if their life depended on it...

err wrong. let me know where i said that and i might consider clarifying everything else you didn't understand.


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[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: SampSon
Bar hopping has very little productive value at all. No matter which way you cut it.
So instead of gambling you drink, still not productive. I personally don't play much poker, usually pinochle (sp). I would say that poker is one of the more prevalent card games out there. I have no stats to back this up.

How does entertainment relate to personal development and character building?

more assumptions. i drink almost every weekend, but i do so in moderation.

Wait, you drink everyweekend but you do it in moderation? That statement contradicts itself. But I understand what you are getting at.

People are dynamic, but not a whole lot can change in a few days in a small sh!tty town. Eventually the conversation goes like this "so, wassup, oh, same old, yea, me too".

So I can agree with you on points. But you have a seriously skewed view on the benefits of social interaction. Bar hopping has little to no benefits.

not once in my entire post did i say that bar hopping was productive. in fact, i didn't use productive at all - you're putting words in my mouth.

You're right, you didn't use the word "productive," but your argument seems to go along this vein. If I may be so bold as to summarize your post, I think this is what you're saying:

Video games should be banned because they are socially isolating and less productive than other forms of entertainment.

Right or wrong?

also, entertainment doesn't intrinsically relate to personal development. however, it can be, or at least shouldn't detract from it. when you isolate yourself, you are detracting from real human interaction. this affects many things, including social development.

Well, READING isolates people and detracts from real human interaction, but nobody says reading is bad. My point is that being alone is not always a bad thing. In excess, yes, it's a bad thing, but not in moderation.

Eventually the conversation goes like this "so, wassup, oh, same old, yea, me too".
you're telling me that in a bar w/ 100+ people, that's all you can come up with? again, you're proving my point. you said you played tons of video games when you were younger - perhaps it affected your social skills.

No, that's not what I think he's saying. I know what he means because I come from the same sort of small TOWN (not bar, town). I went home for spring break and saw some people that I hadn't seen in a few months. We caught up quickly and then said, "So, what do you want to do?" THERE WAS NOTHING. Frisbee golf? It was about to rain. Bowling? Not up for it. Hmmm... what else can we do? Oh, that's right. Nothing. We usually either sit around and talk, play silly real world games, or play video games. In general, we play games together, including video games. In this case, video games encourage social interaction because they encourage us to spend more time with each other.

Heck, I know some girls who got together to have a girls-only Halo game. This sounds like new and interesting social interaction to me.

Wait, you drink everyweekend but you do it in moderation? That statement contradicts itself.
how is that a contradiction? what about the statment, "i eat 5 times a day, but i do it in moderation." moderation and drinking has nothing to do w/ the absolute frequency, and has everything to do w/ relative consumption.


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To sum up, I think people are getting worked up because you're making broad generalizations about video games which simply don't appy to every one. In elementary school, I played games like Math Blasters and O'Dell Lake and a really cool science experiment game. You simply can't tell me that these games were detrimental.

Epsilon

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Regardless, for something to exist it shouldn't require a "beneficial" quality defined by our current societal values.

why not? if you see that you're doing sh!tty in a class, you're going to study more. if your car is making funny noises you're gonna take it to the mechanic and get it fixed. you're car will do just fine if you let it keep running, and you might pass the class w/o the need to dedicate more time to it. why then, is it ok to waste away 5 hours a day playing video games? why not change to an activity that's both entertaining and beneficial? the two aren't mutually exclusive.


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[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
You're right, you didn't use the word "productive," but your argument seems to go along this vein. If I may be so bold as to summarize your post, I think this is what you're saying:

Video games should be banned because they are socially isolating and less productive than other forms of entertainment.

Right or wrong?

partially right. i don't really think they should be banned, that was just a little "umph" to incite some conversation. obviously there's no way that video games would ever be banned. i thought that it was pretty clear that my OP was a fairly harmless statement, not a defacto declaration. and yes, although video games aren't necessarily isolating, it's much easier to shut yourself out.

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
Well, READING isolates people and detracts from real human interaction, but nobody says reading is bad. My point is that being alone is not always a bad thing. In excess, yes, it's a bad thing, but not in moderation.

well reading carries with it other beneficial attributes. however, i never said that being alone was a bad thing either. in fact, it's extremely healthy. however, what you do during that "alone time" is just as important, if not more so.

Originally posted by: EpsiIon
To sum up, I think people are getting worked up because you're making broad generalizations about video games which simply don't appy to every one.

i don't feel as if i'm making generalizations, however this thread has been plagued by people misrepresenting my statements. apparently the internet isn't very conducive towards conveying subtleties. surprise surprise.


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[Mill]

What is sad is that I rarely if ever play video games. If I do it is vs a friend in NCAA football, however, theneoone is clueless. I'd much prefer getting drunk to playing vid games, but both are entertainment and void of being productive.

 

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: SampSon

Regardless, for something to exist it shouldn't require a "beneficial" quality defined by our current societal values.

why not? if you see that you're doing sh!tty in a class, you're going to study more. if your car is making funny noises you're gonna take it to the mechanic and get it fixed. you're car will do just fine if you let it keep running, and you might pass the class w/o the need to dedicate more time to it. why then, is it ok to waste away 5 hours a day playing video games? why not change to an activity that's both entertaining and beneficial? the two aren't mutually exclusive.


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I think you missed the point.

I don't see how studying more in a class or fixing your car because it's not working right relates to a beneficial value of a particular entertainment activity in society.

So by disagreeing with me, you state that everything should have some sort of beneficial quality to it in order to exist?
Nothing can be detrimental to society or any of the sum of its parts in any aspect.

 

[dethman]

video games are fun.

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: theNEOone
i move to ban all forms of electronic interactive entertainment because they offer no benefit to society other than the economic benefit to the manufacturers. they don't incite any kind of intellectual development, they hinder real social relationships, and most practically they waste time and money.


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What about television shows that are not educational? You can watch tv with others but you're really just paying attention to the screen. Movies are the same thing. What about fiction books that are not educational? If you already know how to read, the only purpose of a fictional book is to provide entertainment. Hell, playing piano is a solitary activity and does not offer any real social benefit. Well, let's just ban tv, movies, fictional books, and pianos!

People will do things for entertainment/relaxation that may have no benefit whatsoever to society. I'm sure you do too. So what? Being a 21 year old college student, I'm sure you can find something more productive to do than posting on ATOT. But if you enjoy it, then that's your prerogative. No one should ban you from doing it just because you're being unproductive.

dfi

 

[MisterRaven]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Acanthus
The reason we are looking into your recreation, is because you dont realize that we may not agree with what you do for recreation. Gamers enjoy gaming, Clubbers enjoy clubbing.

You can just as easily argue that clubbers are more prone to get STDs, or become alchoholics, as you can argue that gamers are susceptible to becoming hermits.

fine, but realize that i do both. although i wouldn't consider myself a clubber, i enjoy playing games as well as going to clubs. i also like lifting, i like snowboarding, etc. so please don't classify me, because you know very little about me.

however, one major difference is that, for whatever reason, you find alot of people that abuse gaming. you usually don't see ppl clubbing for 5 hours a day, yet it's not entirely uncommon to hear someone watching t.v. or playing video games for 5+ hours a day. there's a problem w/ that IMO.


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Request denied. I'm classifying you as an egocentric fool.

 

[0roo0roo]

playing with dolls = detachment from reality its a %#@ piece of plastic, stop @#% combing its @%# hair. wtf are you learning

 

[upsciLLion]

My penis is the biggest.

End of discussion.

 

[Glitchny]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: WhiteWonder
I still don't see it, I have played games for as long as I can remember, and I am not a fat, errrr, person.

it's not about being fat. it's about taking the time you spent playing video games and doing something productive. it may have been exercise, or studying, or a hobby, or even hanging out w/ your friends. i'm not limiting the argument to just one's health or intellectual ability.


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what if games are my hoby, does that mean ive been produtive when i play them? And try telling anyone thats played DDR that its not a workout! Movies also "offer no intellectual benifit" yet you arent calling for a ban on movies and TV in general, just games, which can be and usualy are more social then watching tv by oneself

 

[Frodolives]

I think they're relatively healthy.

Far more interactive than television, to be sure.

Sure it's inferior to real experiences, but it is after all play. Not to mention that as the world becomes more and more crowded, there is less real space, and it's nice to have virtual space to exercise your imagination.