Vick Officially Named Starting QB

[Kev]

useless drivel

Thank god for the ignore user feature

 

[BrokenVisage]

sooo.. Roethlisberger > P. Manning?
:hmm:

then.. Terry Bradshaw >>>> Roethlisberger.

:hmm::hmm:

Wow, I didn't know I said SB victories was the only thing that mattered with a top tier QB debate. :hmm:

 

[BrokenVisage]

Thank god for the ignore user feature

Keep jerking it at nights to your replica #9 jersey. I'm not losing any sleep when someone who copy/pastes HAHAHA a million times, brings nothing to the table by way of opinion or fact, then gets fed up to the point he has to ignore someone because they don't agree with you doesn't want to read my posts. Have a good life sir, whatever kind of life someone like you must live.

 

[Barfo]

As a Steelers fan, it's difficult to assess Roethlisberger objectively. Hell, I wore diapers when the last great Steelers QB played a game (Bradshaw, and he was carried many times by his defense and running game, as is Ben) so Big Ben seems like a godsend to Steelers fans.

Still I don't think he's an elite QB, he's pretty damn good, knows how to run the offense and read defenses, and has huge balls.
But as IndyColtsFan was saying, I don't think he'd be able to consistently take his team to the playoffs with a bad defense and o-line. Though I think he'd have an ok chance to get into Canton if he wins another SB.

As for Brees, I don't think he's elite either, not yet at least.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The refs helped the Steelers out too, I accept that, what happened to the NFL being a team sport like you say later on in your post though? Don't flip-flop, he was still the starting QB and his team won with him. One could say he was a huge part in why they got there in the first place.

I'm not flip flopping. You guys are acting as if Ben somehow won the game himself and I'm pointing out that no, his TEAM won the game. Being a Manning fan, I know more than anyone about football being a team sport. Peyton may have had poor playoff performances but damn, many of those times his defense was awful.

And stabbing or not Ben had to turn his back to Harper before tackling him, who had room to run in nearly ever direction except the one he took. Was one of the most impressive non-offense plays I've seen a QB make. If Harper seriously couldn't play then he shouldn't have been in there, him being in on a goal-line stance is enough for me to assume he was good enough to put out there in one of the most desperate moments that game had for Indy.

Let's get this out of the way -- Indy's loss to the Steelers was completely inexcusable. Indy was a better team, had a reason to win (for Dungy), and had completely and totally embarrassed the Steelers on national TV earlier that season. The Colts did get away with one when Polamalu picked Manning off and it was ruled that he didn't catch it (he did).

Nevertheless, while the play Ben made WAS excellent, the part that made me laugh was the "gave up his body" part. Otherwise I agree it was a good play. Ben fell over, reached out, and snagged Harper's leg, thereby tripping him. When I read the "gave up his body" remark, all I pictured was Roethlisberger taking a dive in front of a barrelling 350 lb defensive lineman. That didn't happen.

BTW, I could still kick Harper's ass. He could've easily run around Roethlisberger and won the game.

He was still the QB of the team Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfered his way through the game. Ward doesn't get his MVP of the SB without Ben zoning in on his clutch receiver.

Errrr -- Randle El was the one who threw the game clinching 43 yd TD strike to Ward that clinched him the MVP award. That was Ward's only score and while he did have 123 total yards of receiving, Randle El's pass won the MVP for Ward.

An elite QB overcomes poor defenses. Warner always had crappy D's and he did all he could to overcome it, to the tune of something like 10-5 in the play-offs.

I don't know that I agree with you there. An elite QB can only do so much and at the end of the day, they don't play D. Not to sound like a homer, but Manning is the best QB I've seen at masking his own team's poor defense. Warner was good at it too. But in the end, both were bitten -- Manning in SB 44 and Warner in SB 43.

 

[Barfo]

Oh and yeah, The Steelers won that first SB despite Ben, but they wouldn't have been there in the first place if it wasn't for how he played during the season.

 

[spidey07]

Intersting article. The espn guys make the case for Kolb.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5602696

"You can't pull the plug that fast after you spend your whole offseason building around this guy," panelist Mel Kiper Jr., ESPN's draft expert, noted. "Second, Vick, based on how he plays, fits almost any scheme because he's going to freelance regardless. If you need him, he doesn't need a ton of reps to step in and make an impact."

 

[Kev]

Keep jerking it at nights to your replica #9 jersey. I'm not losing any sleep when someone who copy/pastes HAHAHA a million times, brings nothing to the table by way of opinion or fact, then gets fed up to the point he has to ignore someone because they don't agree with you. Have a good life sir, whatever kind of life someone like you must live.

Don't worry guy, I hadn't put you on just yet, but your posts are approaching my limits for asininity.

How am I supposed to argue with meaningless garbage statements like:
"Whose team won more championships?"
"Who had a good drive that one game?"
"Who made a good tackle that one time?"

Try arguing statistics, or something with meaning. Maybe you can't (don't worry, a lot of people earlier in the thread can't either).

 

[Barfo]

Let's get this out of the way -- Indy's loss to the Steelers was completely inexcusable. Indy was a better team, had a reason to win (for Dungy), and had completely and totally embarrassed the Steelers on national TV earlier that season. The Colts did get away with one when Polamalu picked Manning off and it was ruled that he didn't catch it (he did).

Did they really?
I must admit I thought the Colts were going to win, but after watching the game, the Steelers were the better team that day. The Colts only had a chance of winning in the end because the refs helped them with Polamalu's interception.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Intersting article. The espn guys make the case for Kolb.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5602696

I see where he is coming from for sure, but I think Vick gives them the best chance to win now.

Besides that, Kiper is a douche.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

Wow, I didn't know I said SB victories was the only thing that mattered with a top tier QB debate. :hmm:

Ok then Brees has the stats and Ben has one extra SB win. so it as least is a wash then right?

Then you see Brees went to the Pro Bowl 5x and was All-pro in 2006.
Roethlisberger 2 Pro Bowls. 0 All-pro.

Brees beat an unprecedented 3 future first ballot HOFers in a row to win the SB.
Who did Roethlisberger beat in his SB runs?
C.Palmer's backup, Peyton, Plummer, Hasselbeck.
Rivers, Flacco, Warner.

And considering the fact that Brees had to play with flimsy defenses until last year while roethlisberger had an top tier defense behind him his WHOLE career makes the argument for Roethlisberger a little weaker.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

And considering the fact that Brees had to play with flimsy defenses until last year while roethlisberger had an top tier defense behind him his WHOLE career makes the argument for Roethlisberger a little weaker.

While eating lunch today, I had another thought. Roethlisberger threw for 4300 yds last season. Peyton usually throws for 4000+ yards. Which is more impressive?

Well, defenses who face the Colts ALREADY know that Manning is going to air it out, so he is always their first priority to prepare for and hopefully, stop. Every year -- year in, year out -- he still manages to throw for insane numbers even while facing defenses which are designed to stop him every single week.

Roethlisberger? Well, I think he took people by surprise last year. Sure, he may be a perennial 4,000 yard passer from here on out. But last year, you can argue that most teams prepared for the Steelers usual style of pounding the ball with low/moderate risk passing. They weren't prepared for Ben throwing it all over.

I think the same logic that applies to Peyton also applies to Brees, even more so with Reggie Bush being out and their short/screen passing game being effectively decimated.

 

[BrokenVisage]

I'm not flip flopping. You guys are acting as if Ben somehow won the game himself and I'm pointing out that no, his TEAM won the game. Being a Manning fan, I know more than anyone about football being a team sport. Peyton may have had poor playoff performances but damn, many of those times his defense was awful.

I'm not the biggest "defense wins championships" guy there is, but yes winning is a combination of offense, defense, and special teams with good coaching/play-calling to bring it all together. I'm a moderate P. Manning fan, I think he's probably the the best I've seen live or on TV, and what your talking about is also a product of the AFC having better teams and defenses that are forced to really gameplan against what Manning does from the beginning because they know they're most likely going to have to face him eventually to get through the conference. Well, him or Brady.

Let's get this out of the way -- Indy's loss to the Steelers was completely inexcusable. Indy was a better team, had a reason to win (for Dungy), and had completely and totally embarrassed the Steelers on national TV earlier that season. The Colts did get away with one when Polamalu picked Manning off and it was ruled that he didn't catch it (he did).

Nevertheless, while the play Ben made WAS excellent, the part that made me laugh was the "gave up his body" part. Otherwise I agree it was a good play. Ben fell over, reached out, and snagged Harper's leg, thereby tripping him. When I read the "gave up his body" remark, all I pictured was Roethlisberger taking a dive in front of a barrelling 350 lb defensive lineman. That didn't happen.

BTW, I could still kick Harper's ass. He could've easily run around Roethlisberger and won the game.

OK I didn't mean to say "give up his body" like he was jumping off a cliff or infront of a train to try and tackle the guy. But he did something not many QBs would have the athleticism to or do in a situation where a second before it happened he was probably ready to celebrate a game put on ice. He didn't panic, he went for the legs because there's no way he tackles him head on in the position he was in. Hey I was rooting for Indy anyway so I was hoping Harper took it to the house, but when he didn't I knew Manning would have a great shot of at least getting them in FG range, then well.. no one knew Vandercrap would miss that bad.

Errrr -- Randle El was the one who threw the game clinching 43 yd TD strike to Ward that clinched him the MVP award. That was Ward's only score and while he did have 123 total yards of receiving, Randle El's pass won the MVP for Ward.

Yeah he did have that big TD throw, forgot that was Randle El. Was such an ugly SB in almost every aspect, but someone had to win.

I don't know that I agree with you there. An elite QB can only do so much and at the end of the day, they don't play D. Not to sound like a homer, but Manning is the best QB I've seen at masking his own team's poor defense. Warner was good at it too. But in the end, both were bitten -- Manning in SB 44 and Warner in SB 43.

You gotta play through the situations you're put in with the teams you're on. Warner put his team up like something like 20 points early on against the Packers last year, and they still came back to tie the game and go to OT. No, Warner had nothing to do with giving up that lead but he did his best to keep the team on pace to try and stay ahead. Sure this also inflates numbers for a QB but the big numbers equate to him doing the only thing he can do, leading his offense down the field. Defenses fold, people fumble, but that's part of the game too and sometimes you or your teammates just have to be a little lucky in addition to having the talent.

OK clowns I actually gotta do some work before leaving for the day, back to that!

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

Roethlisberger's 2nd pro bowl is meaningless also because he came in as an alternate since Brady and Manning both had to sit out that game.

 

[apac]

I see where he is coming from for sure, but I think Vick gives them the best chance to win now.

Besides that, Kiper is a douche.

OK, but are the Eagles really in a position to make a super bowl run this year, or even a playoff run, regardless of who's at QB? Their o-line is a mess, defense hasn't looked great in the first 2 games, running game is pretty average, etc.

If it's a year where they expect to go 8-8, how does Vick starting now help them for the future?

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

Kiper and John Clayton are so impressed with themselves they can't go to sleep at night just thinking how awesome they are.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'll take Brady. 2 minutes left and the teams down 6 points. Who do you want QB'ing the team?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

OK, but are the Eagles really in a position to make a super bowl run this year, or even a playoff run, regardless of who's at QB? Their o-line is a mess, defense hasn't looked great in the first 2 games, running game is pretty average, etc.

If it's a year where they expect to go 8-8, how does Vick starting now help them for the future?

Maybe they're hoping Vick plays extremely well and they can use him as trade bait?

Maybe Reid and Lurie think they have a legitimate shot at the playoffs or even the division and think it is now or never.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Kiper and John Clayton are so impressed with themselves they can't go to sleep at night just thinking how awesome they are.

I'll never forget the famous Bill Tobin rant during the draft, after Mel Kiper lambasted the Colts for taking Trev Alberts over Trent Dilfer:

"Who the HELL is Mel Kiper? Has he ever played or coached in the NFL? What are his qualifications?"

I think it is on Youtube somewhere, but I am too lazy to search.

 

[Barfo]

I'll take Brady. 2 minutes left and the teams down 6 points. Who do you want QB'ing the team?

Montana or Marino

 

[Heller]

you guys need to chill the fuck out, who gives a shit really your all getting heated over an argument on the internet.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Montana or Marino

Montana, no question. The guy had an other-worldly cool about him and even though Brady seems to be the most cool-headed QB today, he is boiling compared to Montana.

I'm reminded of the story told about Montana in SB 23. I believe it was Randy Cross who told it. The 49ers were down to the Bengals and in dire straights with 3 minutes left in the game. The entire team was shell shocked and Joe came into the huddle, laughing, and joking with everyone. He didn't have the slightest hint of fear and drove them down the field for a win:

In order to calm his teammates in the huddle just before the final game-winning drive, Montana pointed into the stadium crowd and said "Hey, isn't that John Candy?"

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

I'll take Brady. 2 minutes left and the teams down 6 points. Who do you want QB'ing the team?

Otto Graham

or

Kenny Stabler

 

[KMFJD]

Keep jerking it at nights to your replica #9 jersey. I'm not losing any sleep when someone who copy/pastes HAHAHA a million times, brings nothing to the table by way of opinion or fact, then gets fed up to the point he has to ignore someone because they don't agree with you doesn't want to read my posts. Have a good life sir, whatever kind of life someone like you must live.

 

[Perknose]

Their o-line is a mess

[...]

...how does Vick starting now help them for the future?

It keeps the far less mobile Kevin Kolb from getting a season or even career ending concussion behind said O-line.